News
Israel: Sweden using 'freedom of speech' as fig leaf
Roni Sofer
Published: 22.08.09, 20:40
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
63 Talkbacks for this article
31. Typical...
Ron ,   L.A., USA   (08.23.09)
So, the europeans think they can once again get away with garbage like this. If they draw a picture of Mohammed, there are riots in the streets. The government pisses it's pants and retracks everything. But because it's about jews, no apology necessary. After all, what are jews gonna do about it? Typical Anti-Semitism alive and well. So much for 'never again'.
32. Granted, freedom of speech is an unalienable right but that
Allan ,   Delray Beach, Fla   (08.23.09)
right has limitations. For example, you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater when there is no fire burning. The burden of proof lies strictly with the publication as one of its journalists made allegations of wrong doings without presenting clear and convincing evidence that such incidents occurred. In fact, the author asserted that s/he had no concrete evidence that the incidents occurred but rather that his/her intention was the initiation of an investigation by Israeli authorities in order to rule out the possibility that these incidents may or may not have occured. This is a prime example of yellow journalism at its best. The basis for the article is interviews with Palestinians who were not not eye witnesses to the alleged crimes and therefore lack credibility. The Palestinians merely repeated what they heard from others about the alleged incidents. This is clearly hearsay, and is indamissable as evidence in a court of law. If this matter ever went before a judge and jury it would be a slam dunk case of libel. One can not be accused of wrongdoing and be required to prove their innocence. Innocence is presumed until guilt is proven. The accuser has the burden of proof and must present clear and convincing evidence to support their accusations. The Swedish government is wrong to support the article as free speech argument when this is clearly not the case here.
33. To Swedish in Israel
Val ,   Israel   (08.23.09)
Hope you feel safer in Israel comparing to Jewish sportsman during Davis Cup in Malmö. Just think about it and continue to enjoy hospitality.
34. Assaf Wohl wrote an excellent letter to the Swedish FM
Tahl ,   Ashdod, Israel   (08.23.09)
where he completely dismantles and pulverizes Sweden's silly "freedom of expression" argument, and effectively proves that article has everything to do with antisemitism. I hope ynet would translate it into English soon. For those of you who read Hebrew, it is found here: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3765445,00.html
35. #11 "Freedom of speech"
Tahl ,   Ashdod, Israel   (08.23.09)
Freedom of speech is nice. However, when the media exercise their freedom of speech, they must equally exercise caution, to make sure the stories they publish are indeed credible. When they fail to do so, they mislead peoples into believing horrible things and formulating biased opinions. Since everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty, the burden of proof, therefore, has to be on the accusing side. "Freedom of speech" , therefore, does NOT include the freedom to incite, and publish a blood-libel with no proof to back it up, whose sole purpose is to defame a certain people. Tomorrow I will publish a story that you abduct little children, strangle them, rape their bodies, and then eat them. And what could you do then? That's freedom of speech for you! Your preaching "thuggish mentality" and "shame on you" are completely irrelevant. You should be the one to be ashamed for such ignorance.
36. Long term policy
Ronald S. ,   Nimuegen — Holland   (08.23.09)
The best long term policy on this might be to bring up this incident — and particularly the Sweden's Government attitude on it — again and again to Sweden's officials. Make every official contact, every meeting with Israel's representatives a painful and vunpleasent event for them. Not for a few months but for a very long time.
37. Does Sweden care about the integrity of their media?
Doron ,   Israel   (08.23.09)
Israel values both the freedom of press and also the integrity of journalists and media. The Swedish government obviously only practices and embraces one of these two values. The Swedish government is going to pretend once again that she's neutral, as the government shuts down websites belonging to the Swedish Democratic Party and condemns a cartoon contest that was poking fun at Prophet/General Muhammad. As Nazi troops were marching through Stockholm streets unmolested by Swedish defense, Sweden let the Nazis fly over Swedish air space on their way to bomb little brother Norway without shooting down one German plane as a political statement and principal. In order to stop the much needed steel delivery from Sweden to England, the Nazis plan to intercept the delivery, by penetrating and occupying Denmark and Norway, was much thanks to Swedish comply and cooperation, timely and successfully executed, like a hot knife cuts through butter, and regardless of the many successful attacks and sabotage that the Nazis faced from the Norweigan Underground Resistance. Just as a contrast, the Poles who were first to fight the Nazis, who was invaded with 85% of the German army, a Germany who held territory that surrounded Poland from three fronts, the Poles managed to successfully hold the Nazis back for 30 days, fighting on horsebacks with muskets, single shot-rifles and swords. The Finnish army pushed the Nazis out of Lapland, a fight were Germany suffered the loses of 2000 Nazi troops versus 1000 fallen Finns. Back in Sweden, as they had their neutral policy (just as we are witnessing again lately) they could legally sell their steel to the Nazis instead of to the British. But that was nothing compared to the profits Sweden made after the War from wartorn Europe who needed to import new stuff and to rebuild their countries. Nothing has ever stimulated the Swedish economy as much as the post-War Swedish export boom, laying the foundation for the generous Swedish welfare state. But I'm glad that the war was not as bad for everybody and that a nation could actually profit from it. If only more European nations would've known how much money could've been made by just being neutral, they would've all been neutral and instead start practicing the German language and set their dining tables for bratwurst and sauerkraut. I think that the Swedes should worry less about learning about the atrocities of the Holocaust and study more about what caused and led up to it. It wasn't Hitler who caused the Holocaust, but rather the the relative passiveness of Europe and the European indifference to what Hitler was doing to the Jews, before and during the war.
38. Freedom of speech
Sören ,   Uppsala, Sweden   (08.23.09)
If I publish a story in the number 1 newspaper in Israel that your mother is a prostitute, does that mean that the burden of refuting that is on you, or do I have to prove my allegations ? That would probobly be my mothers consern. I wouldnt care about it. But I know this would be a lie so I wouldnt care. I honestly think that our cultures are so different that we really cant understand each other. For me, rubbish articles in a israeli newspapers about sweden would probobly result in a laugh rather than anger. I do hope that this is indeed a rubish article. Israel shouldnt pay so much attention on a thing like this. If its true, more proves would probobly exist. Why dont Israel sue Aftonbladet? Just like the princess madeleine did. (http://www.newstin.com/rel/us/en-010-016827367)
39. #14 You are missing the point
pointer   (08.23.09)
No one is asking to close the paper or to put someone in jail. The point is that THE SWEDISH MINISTERS ALSO HAVE RIGHT OF SPEECH and can use it. They don't say a word not because they "are guarding constitution". The just worry about the chairs and their asses on it. If they will dare to say something not nice about the press, the journalists will make their political and personal life harder. And you do have a war now. In Malmo. It's just the beginning. One day, many years ago, serbs brought albanians to Kosovo....
40. Morally bankrupt Sweden
Steve ,   London   (08.23.09)
I don't understand. How is it that a mainstream Swedish 'newspaper' can print hateful, offensive lies, without any evidence. And in the name of free speech, the government can not condemn it? It gives the impression that the government is sympathetic to such ideas. Well, I think Israel should not ever accept any criticism from this country next time it is condemned for 'human rights violations'- we have all seen Sweden's true moral colours.
41. #12,#13
Intedi Nensak ,   Stockholm, Sweden   (08.23.09)
Yes the website was shut down and an apology was issued to some arab country. I believe it was to Yemen. The foreign minister at the time, Laila Freivalds, was forced to resign for breaking the constitution! It was she who made an error by apologizing then, it's not the current foreign minister who has done something wrong now. #13 They're allowed to have opinions. They're just not allowed to interfere with what the press writes as it's considered hindering freedom of the press. I believe the parts regulating this is in Tryckfrihetsförordning 1 kap. 2§. I'm not gonna bother translating it all, but you could try an online automatic translator. You can find the swedish version at lagen.nu
42. Swedish Apology
Mark ,   israel   (08.23.09)
Why should we expect them to apologize when I, as an Israeli taxpayer keeps Neve Gordon who advocates a boycott of Israel, in sheltered employment at Ben Gurion University in the name of freedom of speech
43. Anti semitism on rise in sweden.
Ron B. ,   Lod   (08.23.09)
Anti-Semitism, the hate of Jews, is a phenomenon on which much has been said and written.Anti-Semitism doesn’t even need Jews in order to prosper (It existed in Japan although there were no Jews living in Japan). Anti-Semitism is one of the ugliest defect in human kind and it provokes the appearance of the most primitive and bestial instinct in human nature. Nowadays, it is carried, supported and promoted by Islam. If one wants to fight anti-Semitism one has to oppose the sermons and incitements preached in the Mosques against Jews. As to antisemitism in Sweden : http://xrl.us/beiqsm
44. Free speech is not the right to lie or difame
carlos ,   San Diego U.S.A   (08.23.09)
45. to all the swedes here the sewidish gov gave
ghostq   (08.23.09)
that journalist money for his so call reserch ence they should apologize. they should be responsible and supervise what the money is used ffor don't you think.
46. #1, #11, #14,#15
Andre ,   Melbourne, Australia   (08.23.09)
if this is a "free speech", then what is "slander"? If someone published an article in a local newspaper accusing you in murder you didn't commit, I bet you'd be calling your lawyer as we speak. Freedom of speech doesn't include false accusations. For example: "Israel is wrong in its policies towards the Palestinians"-this is an opinion and it constitutes a free speech. "Israel nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki"-this is a false accusation which requires some serious evidence. are you really that ignorant to admit that?
47. Jews - Israelis
Sören ,   Uppsala, Sweden   (08.23.09)
I think the main issue here is that in Sweden religion hasnt much to do with anything. We dont dislike jews, we just dislike Israel in a political point of view. The reason we dont believe this to be anti-semitism is that for us it is a political question, just like we dont like what USA is doing in Iraq and so on. I think a common opinion in sweden is that Israel think Israel = jews. But for a swede, thats as absurd as calling a german protestant or catholic or whatever. Its two different things.
48. Lieberman's forced donation doesn't need a fig leaf
observer   (08.23.09)
49. go sweden!
jerusalem   (08.23.09)
as that one mcdonals commercial goes: "hey...anything can happen"
50. solution incomplete #7
jerusalem   (08.23.09)
its not sweden that has the problem, its israel. so go ahead, hire the best of thje best, then again, to be fair, inspectors not chosen by IL also have to be hired and then IL will pay the bills., agreed? oh yeah, you are too rich, just look at how much charity it gets from the US and the leading millionares in the world. haifa has arabs in it...i suggest ma'ale adumim, so classy.
51. #1 Swedish
Marco ,   Spain   (08.23.09)
You summed it up perfectly.
52. #2
Marco ,   Spain   (08.23.09)
What do you have against an impartial fair investigation of the matter?
53. #40
Peter ,   Sweden   (08.23.09)
Perhaps it could be labeled as slander. But that would be a matter for the courts, not the Swedish government. And on a general note, how could any country demand of another that its government should violate the constitution. What country would accept that?
54. Freedom of RESPONSIBLE speech protected; NOT slander
(08.23.09)
Everyone should be held accountable for their words and required to show a reasonable (legal definition) basis in truth. Israelis who advocate concealing identities of posters and freely publishing lies and slander while expecting others not to do the same deserve no better than they are giving!
55. Sweden have laws against anti-semitism.
Johan ,   Stockholm   (08.23.09)
I´m am puzzled. In Sweden our freedom of speech does not encompass what is called "hets mot folkgrupp", it is, roughly, forbidden to stir up hatred against minorities. Everything it takes is for someone report the article and then a specialized court of law "Granskningsnämnden" will decide whether of not the article constitutes a violation against swedish law. If the article can be considered anti-semitic it is. It is remarcable that the Israeli officials know so little about swedish law.
56. #47 The point is...
Soeren ,   Cologne/Germany   (08.23.09)
... that antisemitism is an AFFECT which has secularized and now goes for the state of Israel instead for the single, maybe religious observant, individual. After all, Israel is the state of the Jews, isn't it? The problem is not to criticize Israel. The problem is, at the same time TO DENY ANY PALESTINIAN ACTIONS – which are ALWAYS the innocent good guys who just want "to fight occupation". Rockets on Sderot for seven years? Constant suicide attacks? Regrettably, but no problem, hey... the Israelis are exaggerating again... It's no problem when Israel is attacked – but shall not fight back. And that indeed makes it antisemitism. Apply your "human rights approach" to other areas of the Middle East. How is the women rights situation in Egypt or Saudi Arabia? How are the Palestinians treated in Lebanon or Syria? How treat the Palestinians themselves women, Christians or homosexuals in areas under their control? And ask yourself how many Swedes were protesting that on demonstrations on the streets? Astonishing that only those "human rights violations" in the Middle East take the people to the streets Israel is accused for. Or were there recently some demonstrations in Sweden demanding: "Stop nazi-idealizing Hamas. Women rights also in Palestine!" I doubt that. Most Swedes probably think that Hamas should be supported.
57. 1
zionist forever   (08.23.09)
If investigations are held to prove stories are untrue everytime the foreign media makes a wild accusation would mean that more time and money is spent on investigations than on anything else. Its also just not medically possible. You can't just go into a mourge and start taking peoples organs, they need to be taken in the hospital at the time of the death when its fresh and strrile ( the morgue is not s sterile enviroment ) You need to know exactly what your doing if you want to take out organs without damaging them that means having surgeons on standby 24/7 so they can take out the organs whenever they bring in a palestinian because they plan to take their organs. They have to know the compatibilty of the donor - patient. They can't just rip the organs out the body and then start running all kinds of tests to see if its going to be compatible with anybody wanting a transplant. You can't take an organ put it in the freezer until you need it there is only a certain amount of time they will last outside the body. This is just a modern day blood libel that any respectable newspaper would have ever published if no other reason the medical facts make prove there can't be any truth in the story. We can hold 100 investigations but the anti Israel bunch who love this story will just say the truth is being covered up because they want it to be real because it supports their hatred of Israel. The people who know its a load of bullshit don't need investigations to know its bullshit because logic shows it can't be true. An investgation will give credibility to the story that maybe something is going on in the IDF and it will result in wasting time and recources on investigations so we can say see we told you its not true.
58. Swedish antisemitism..?
Fred ,   Uppsala, Sweden   (08.23.09)
I just wanted to point out to the people saying that antisimitism is on the rise in sweden that there's a big differense between disagreeing with some of the things Isreal does and being anti-semitic. Why does it matter of the government rejects it anyways, shouldn't you go after the tabloid (aftonbladet) if anything? Antisemitism on the rise in Sweden? Pft, get a clue...
59. ineffective tactics
tom ,   toronto, canada   (08.23.09)
unfortunately, israel is pushing sweden into an unproductive corner. the swedish government is faced with a vocal and violent moslem minority which is strongly anti-israel. they are voters, whereas israel is not. and they have swayed swedish public opinion against israel by spreading such lies. clearly, the swedish government is more interested in preserving its mandate than in protecting israel from arab propaganda. and, unfortunately, israel has not been very tactful in all of this. the usual cries of moral outrage and demands for an apology play well to the audience in israel, but they also antagonize the swedes, and make them defensive. rather than helping, they actually make it more difficult for the swedish government to do the right thing, because they don't want to appear to be pushed around. although it is not the israeli way, some situations can better be handled by diplomacy, which might have coordinated a joint condemnation, than by "shooting from the lip".
60. Incompetence
Customs ,   Sweden   (08.23.09)
Am I getting this right, the israeli government is asking the executive branch of the Swedish goverment to condemn a Swedish newspaper article? Why wont they turn to the judical branch and sue / report to granskningsnämnden for liabel and or "hets mot folkgrupp" (racial hate aggitation)? Or just simply engage the paper in debate (shouldnt be to hard considering aftonbladet is known for subpar journalism) From a swedish perspective this has very little to do with goverment racism since the right wing generally has been somewhat pro israeli, it has all to do with they way Israel have acted in the swedish media debate lately however) Legally the exective part should have the right of condemning the article (i think) but traditionally the government do not get that much involved in the media debate unless its about party politics. It would also probably spawn a shit storm since Swedish citizens generally are not that keen on the government beeing part of the media debate. I for one do not want my government to issue official "Swedish" opinions that are not my own. Note: In this case I do think Aftonbladet is way out of line and should be sued, but thats up to the Israelis) Condemnations from the goverment not how things are traditionally handled in the swedish media debate and I cant believe that the Israelis have such a poor understanding of the "customs landscape" when they make demands of it. This is not the first time it happens. Israel have earlier demanded the shut down of an art installation regarding suicide victims and suicidebombers (it was distastefull but none the less) I and many of my friends generally feel sympathy for Israel in the Palestinian conflict since the debate is so left influenced and most agrumentative journalists seem to see the world in black and white however Israel is like that fucking obnoxious kid in the city center trying to make you sign up for his petition for some good cause saying that you'll go to hell if you dont sign up on their solution. I know of no other country that has so willingly profiled itself in sweden as a provocateur. So the goverment has nothing to do with the article. The israels should not demand official condemnations from the in the media debate. All they'll accomplish is resentment from people like me, tired of people pointing fingers.
Previous talkbacks
Next talkbacks
Back to article