Would we expect anything other than a full out test of the Jewish people by the nevim shekar of Devarim 13? We are supposed to be tested and sadly this religion started by a Jewish (??? His father wasn't a tribesman his mother bethrothed to another) man for specifically "fallen" Jews tested many and many failed and followed the shekar and his miracles. Even the fisrt prophecy of a virgin birth by Isaish is for a child named Emanaul (not Ysus) and is a sign for Ahaz 20 generations before Jesus even was born. A truly learned Torah Jew would not have fallen for such. look how many historically did. Today how many Jews know their Torah and what Christianity represents in realtionship to chose life or chose a dead man on a cross? How many have read anti-missionizing sites? Mayby the Rabbis might care enough to illimunate these to the people so few fall rather than blowing horns at the sky for curses that come as a result of falling.

And in your case , knowing [ ? ] the Torah does'nt make you a Jew . You're only a guer sheker who's also desecrating Shabbat

For a guy who admits he listens to the Pope, visits churches and won't deny Rebbi Yehoshua-Yeshu-Jesus is what he follows, you sure are coming after me with full force. You know in a cult they try to break people often with heavy verbal assualts and name calling. Does Messianic teaching from the netxarim teach people must become full orthodox to then take Rebbi Yehoshua as their savior? Too bad it doesn't teach what the nevi shekar is Mr defender of the church and pope. So which is Charles am I Shekar non-Jew who doesn't need to observe Shabbat or a Jew who does and desecrates it as you say. Make up your mind. What has got you on edge bunky?

don't see eye to eye either, I was part of an argument about the true meaning of redemtion and it's ok not to agree you can't ban people, cause eventually every one will reach the same place and be judge by the same all mighty, Tora isn't just for jews, chritians also observ shabat, while some jews don't either way even in judaism there r some pagan rituals that left from the cnaanis era. as for Yeshua he is part of jewish history if jews like it or not historicaly it's inevitable to recognize his work in Israel after all he was a jewish monarchy.

You call yourself a jew , a "believing" one , but you desecrate Shabbat . You are a guer sheker , not a Jew . Stop claiming it . Then no problem for me if you write Shasbbat or eat pork every day , as you do now . Would you agree to go to a Rabbinicalk court here to judge you "jewishness" against mine ? And what a LIAR you are . Listen to the pope ? when did i listen to the pope ? You are only a vulgar LIAR , from head to toe . Don't you visit musea ? well , some churches have great paintings as musea have . A must to see them . AS a secular atheist i do not believe in any god , and this i told already more than once .

i can do it too . So stop your lies .

not sure why this should be a reason for protests now -. Most religions (except Judaism of course) would be happy to have new members- so what? Is this not normal? I realize, having read past discussions about bloodlines and DNA testing to convert to Judaism, this might sound weird that a religion would welcome new members voluntarily..you cannot measure other religions with your own yardstick. As long as this is not forced (as it was during the Inquisition- and Henry VIII's reign in England, to name two incidences).- surely there is nothing wrong if a Jew converts to another faith of his own choice. The church is not going to send missionaries to Israel or the Jewish sections in the US etc... Why does anybody here even read this or get upset about it? There must be more important things to worry about.

lims is basically the view of the Commandment not to murder. Catholics and Muslims believe in mass murder of those who do not convert. Jews believe in self defense killing which is more akin to the intentions of the Creator. The name of the Messiah for the three faiths varies, too, and is important to know since calling on the Messiah by name and praying in the Messiah's name is important to the Lord. The Muslims call their Messiah the Mahdi and wait for him to come lead them in the kill of people of other faiths. The Catholics call their Messiah Jesus which means "blotted out". If they wanted to call their Messiah by the English translation of Yeshua, he would be called Joshua. By praying in the name of "blotted out", the prayers are void and powerless. The Jews call their Messiah Emmanuel and the Lion of Judah. Given the theological differences, the choice of a religion of preference is obvious.

We Jews , DON'T like missionaries trying to convert us to their faith . By telling that they want to bring more people [ Jews ] to their religion , it is the same as to say : go , and convert as many Jews you can . PS . You owe me an answer [ buses ]

Let's see who is STILL the coward.

It was on a post where you were defending the pope. "but you desecrate Shabbat " I seem to recall you post a response to my post of Torah thoughts on Shabbat. So if you believe written communication of Torah on Shabbat is a descration, the you are worse than I because you think it to be a descration and you do it anyway. Worse your post was not related to Torah at all. When it comes to kavanah yours is to descrate. Mine is to do the mitvah of speaking of Torah while I sit in my home. Pork? Haha. I don't eat pork. Few if any people eat it everyday. Lay off the dbacon charles. Conservative bet dins can rule on my Jewishness just fine. I never enter into a church. It is not a museum. I never see beauty in them. I recall them as places of man-god worship and I see them about as pretty (sarcasim) as a human skin lampshade. Pinochio and the donkey boys type stuff. But go where you belong Charles. It witnesses to heaven about you.

"church is not going to send missionaries to Israel " There are plenty disguised as orthodox and television is chalked full of pro-Christian messages to convert the non-Jesus believers worldwide. The passage of Deut 13 (Devarim 13) is going to upset many people who watch foolish people get tested by lies, miracles and tricks to follow the wrong path towards curses. It shouldn't be so upsetting as this test is by G-d to separate those who love him from those who are liars or those who do not do Torah.(separate between the living and the dead) The Torah requires that we identify the false prophets and ceratinly not follow them). To say that we have no obligation to prevent the growth of a forbidden alteration to our laws and the injection of a trinity god is incorrect. It is a threat to our well being and is written to bring death, war, illness and destruction to our people and nation via G-d's curses. History shows the prevalence of truth to this negative reward system in Torah. At a time in Jewish history the Jainism Swastika was used by Jews as good luck charms. During that time no one saw a harm in the pagan good luck charm to goy nations being a problem for Jews. They even put it in synagogues. Our religion doesn't allow pagan items they bring curses and we see history of the swastika clearly now. No thank you pope. Sorry Lisa but no.

The problem is what does "accept Christ as saviour" means to the majority of Christians today. It makes an unbilical sacrifice on two fronts; 1)Man sacrifice is not a levitical sacrifice. 2)The purpose of sacrifices or Torah was not to get a person to heaven. We were supposed to be "WEANED" away from these things, not replace them with a newer version.

Dressed in christian garb, Papism is nothing but pure Paganism! The fact is the Holy Bible has revealed the Papacy as the Antichrist. Judeo-Christians and Jews should say NO to the Antichrist. Read "The Papacy" by J. A. Wylie, "Reformation and the Reformation" by H. Grattan Guinness, "Unfolding The Revelation" Revised by Roy Allan Anderson, "The Grand Design Exposed" by John Daniel, etc.

You wrote on Shabbat , you who claim to be a Torah follower , a tb regarding this murder by a young guy . This was'nt Torah related at all . So it was Shabbat desecration , even in the way you , falsely , interprete Shabbat laws . May i remind you that i'm not a believer but a 100 % secular Jew ? so for me no Shabbat desecration exists . But does the Torah you claim to believe in , allows you to be a LIAR as you are ? You said that i listened to the pope , NOT TRUE .

I know the Torah and I not a Jew. Most Christian learned the old and the new Bibles.

senile and reverted to grade school mentality?

pray with his fellow Jews and not the christians. He would probably die again of shame of what the christians did to his fellow Jews over the last 2,000 years.

not THE Anti-Christ since the Papal ring and crown were given to the United Nations Secretary General when U Thant of Thailand was SECGEN of the UN. That transferred the Anti-Christ position to the UN Secretary General. The false prophet is more likely the Pope in Rome unless it is the Muslim Mahdi. The Bible says that anti-Christ religions deny the Father and the Son. Sounds more like Islam than Roman Catholicism on the surface. Dig deeper and you find that the Madonna-child symbols of Roman Catholicism do not represent Mary the mother of Yeshua with Yeshua to the church hierarchy and historians. They are symbols of Mary Magdalene and her supposed child by Yeshua (a lie since he was childless by choice) who is thought to be the progenitor of the Royal Houses of Europe through Mary Magdalene's daughter. She did have a daughter, but Yeshua was not the father. So, the Catholic church hierarchy (not the deceived masses of people) do not believe it is a Father-Son religion. They think it is a Mother-Daughter religion. One Pope said, "The myth of Jesus Christ has been very useful." Doesn't sound to me like a Father-Son religion for an infallible Pope to say Jesus Christ is a myth to him.

you've got the wrong church- but then I suppose to you every church is the same- ? I read TBs and notice people cannot distinguish between Catholic, Protestant, Anglican etc.. churches and all the numerous sects...believe me they are different, like day and night- Look at all the different Jewish groups you have- are they ALL THE SAME? No they are not... they all start out with the Torah, but what happens afterwards is quite different..Orthodox, ultra-orthodox groups- just two as an example.. The same with the Christian churches... the only thing they have incommon is Jesus- most everything else is different... so it is highly unfair and somewhat simplistic to throw all the Christian churches into the same pot. Given the history of the Jews I can understand this- but name one Catholic missionary who goes from door to door in Israel... there are probably hundreds of Mormon missionaries and Jehovah's Witnesses etc...but they have NOTHING to do with the Catholic church- you might say the Catholic church is probably closer to the Jewish teachings than most of the 'so called Christian sects'. As for pagan items, that is a matter of view, yours, mine, some one else's- you do what you please- let other people chose what they want... re orthodox Christian messages on TV- what kind of TV are you watching? I have not seen a pro-Christian message on TV for years- on the contrary- must be a matter of interpretation.

That means fallen Jews. The same fallen that he collected to follow him. The early Christians were his chaff. Jesus came not to bring peace but a sword. To pit Jewish brother against Jewish brother. Look at the history of Christianity and you see this clearly. He referred to a passage while getting drunk at Matthew the Roman Tax collectors party. The passage was from a prophet "I kill you with my words". telling people not to judge when God said you shall be a nation of judges was just one example of a garden of evil that would surely grow. He was the Nevi Sheker testing and collecting fallen sinners to give them what ceratainly leads to curses and disporah. He enabled them to shirk the law. If he were a Messiah were would adminsiter to all of Israel not just the sinners. He truly was a fisherman of men. Lets not forget what fishermen do to fish. Jesus pointed out that he was not the messiah prince of peace by clarifying he came to bring war yet the fallen Jews who became the first Christians ran around telling everyone including Roman leaders that a new king messiah had arrived. They got him falsely accused and killed. He was also the punisher horse propehcised to punish Israel for its rebellion against the law. Born of Mari (Hebrew for Rebellion) Born in a barn. Laid where animals eat in a manger and named not Emmanual (G-d is with us) but rather Ysus. (G-d's Horse - for when G-d is against us). The fall of the temple testifies to this.

see: http://www.613.org/rav-cat.htm

jesusalen is the revelation of the lord jesus christ (apocalypse 21)

I don't believe in any religion, but where do Catholics now call for the murder of anyone refusing to convert? After inquisitions and beheadings didn't work out too well, at all, threats of hell and damnation became much better alternatives. I spent more years in a Catholic Convent school than I care to remember. Most of our teachers sported PhD's in one field or the other and, due to the quality of the education in this particular school, almost half the girls were Protestant. They were not expected or pressured to convert. They didn't have to attend catechism classes, go to mass, eat disgusting fish stuff on Fridays, fast, or do anything else that was contrary to their beliefs. As a matter of fact, there were probably more conversions in the other direction, because we, the Catholic girls had to get up at the crack of dawn to go to mass every frigging morning, while our Lutheran roommates and probably God Himself, kept snoring away, which didn't go over well, at all. The threat of some much later hell sounded a lot more appealing than that morning ritual, especially in the winter. All of us used to sit around and conjure up “sins” to confess with which we could shock the priests, as if being surrounded by nuns 24/7 left many opportunities for serious sinning, other than the imagined kind. I was star of my class for a month, because I had come up with such an over the top invention, I was thrown out of the confessional. Those nuns should have realized that they were doing something not quite right, when one day in Catechism class, we were asked, who of us would consider becoming a nun and somebody piped up with a very loud and almost horrified, “We're not THAT crazy!” Maybe the forgiving aspect of Catholicism allowed us to survive that school with an exceptional education, academically speaking, and almost sane, in general. The fact that our Lutheran classmates remember those nuns with fondness even today is a fairly good indication that nobody bothered them as respects religion, while the rest of us still harbor secret thoughts of far-away planets and special hells for nuns, at least, on a part-time basis.....Later on, when I insisted that listening to my conscience was much more important to my relationship with God than paying attention to all the myths and malarky being peddled in whoever's name and I refused to give an inch, I was officially excommunicated. I'm sure that there's a special hell for people like me in some other folks' estimation, but nobody's ever threatened me with physical harm. On the other hand, if Jews, Christians, Muslims, and whoever else, didn't believe theirs is the right way to God, they wouldn't be what they are, would they? If Christians want to get there via the New Testament, Jews via the Torah, and Muslims via the Koran, bon voyage to everybody!. I'll just plod along, enjoy the surprises along my own route, and hope for the best.

Xtians will never understand that we prefer Jewish "Hell" to Xtian "paradise" 1000 times more. When they do realize that it will be too late for them. Our prophets said that the time will come when Xtians and other idol worshipers will be knocking on the gates of Jewish "Hell" begging letting them in.

You got it all wrong. I would suggest you read all the four Gospels-Matthew, Mark, Luke and John completely. And read the Book of Isaiah. See Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Isaiah Chapter 53.