Opinion
How childish are we?
Adi Dvir
Published: 24.08.09, 00:45
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
88 Talkbacks for this article
1. bullshit , enough being quiet with the lies ...see where Al
rachel ,   usa   (08.24.09)
Dura libel went ? The ignorant believes everything .Stop it at the door or it will enter and poison everyone in the house ....enough of this Pallywood .....
2. absolutely wrong
Danny   (08.24.09)
Israel needs to take a strong stance on all the false comments made about it because otherwise they become accepted as "fact". Remember the 3 million cluster bombs in South Lebanon? Actual number of strikes found is less than 1,500. Remember the "massacre" in Jenin? Remember all the "war crimes" "committed" in Gaza that were getting taken to court? Remember the soldier's "testimony" to Ha'aretz about Gaza? It is time to start making people pay for simply lying about Israel and starting with an "obviously false" story is a good place.
3. Agreed, Adi Dvir
Cameron ,   USA   (08.24.09)
Israelis are starting to get a bit loopy over this piece of nonsense. Get a grip! Israelis do nothing but give this tabloid crap a curious sense of weight with all this over-kill drama. Stop dancing to this foolish tune.
4. Exactly.
David ,   Boston, MA   (08.24.09)
This is exactly what the impulsive Mr. Lieberman will never be able to do without cooler heads directing him.
5. Just keep it quiet it will go away. Hitler redux
nero ,   nyc   (08.24.09)
Just keep it quiet and it will just go away. No. The Jews and their friend must aggressively demonstrate against Sweden. Get 100,000 demonstrators in front of the cursed newspaper, even burn the newspaper building down. This is how Muslims react. This is how you express your power, and not to cower like a scared mouse in the corner. HAVE SOME JEWS LEARNED NOTHING FORM NAZISM?
6. Spot On!
David ,   Los Angeles   (08.24.09)
7. How childish are we?
Anshel ,   Toronto, Canada   (08.24.09)
One word: you are an idiot. Swedes lately haven't been so democratic. Did you forget the empty stadium affairs. Thanks G-d for Lieberman. At least Israel has a Foreign minister who knows few things about antisemitism from live experience back in Soviet Union. Let's boycot the Swedes, NO VOLVO, NO SAAB, NO IKEA, NO ERICSSON CELL PHONES!
8. Actually, it was responsible to pound the table
Jacob Blues ,   New York City   (08.24.09)
over this latest blood libel. It was how many years ago when the Saudi press published a two-part article on how Jews used the blood of Muslims to make Hamantaschen. This dreck was written by a Saudi professor (PhD) no less. As we have seen, quiet acquiesence allows such vile lies to become 'truth' in the eyes of the ignorant and hateful. No, better to stand up for one's self and condemn such lies. Let the hate mongers and libelists be the ones to crawl back under their slime covered rocks.
9. Israel is abiding by The Torah in loudly raising objection
bezalel ,   tel aviv   (08.24.09)
Actually, the writer is giving poor advice. The Torah clearly states (Devarim 21:8) that Israel must proclaim against blood libels of its peoples.
10. What an Article???
Israeli 2   (08.24.09)
When in essence I agree with freedom of speech and everyone has the right to say what he wants and thinks even if it is anti-semitism, your very last paragraph failed this test. They are not void of anti-semitism and they are not friendly. Let's not be hypocritical and cowards...that's what you are only based on the last paragraph.
11. A strong response is necessary
Steve ,   Bay Area, California   (08.24.09)
The reemergence of nationalism and anti-Semitism cannot be ignored. It requires a strong, uncompromising response. We're not going to hide in attics this time.
12. It depends
David ,   New England   (08.24.09)
Compare that to when certain cartoons were printed or the Pope made a few comments.
13. Reputation
Marilyn ,   USA   (08.24.09)
The idea of truth is important and it is worth fighting for. However in this case, it might not be easy. For example will have to find and review the records for this dead man, possibly exhume the body, maybe even sue for defamation. Also in defending a reputation, especially after some others have left the door open, is not for the weak. However if done well, it should pay off in the future.
14. Do nothing , it will pass
hermann ,   US   (08.24.09)
From little acorns big trees grow. Perhaps if the world had spoken against and taken action to stop Hitler's talk etc from 1932-37 great tragedies may have been avoided. Sweden has been insulting israel for many years and funding Arab anti-israel organizations within Israel. Obama has within past 3 or so days stated media reports of his health care plan has lies. Sweden can do the same and repudiate published libel without closing/censoring media, Israel does not protest too much ; it is long past due. Governments have
15. Turn the other cheek
daat y ,   jerusalem   (08.24.09)
JUST KEEP QUIET AND MAKE LIKE THERE WAS NO BLOOD LIBEL. Befor you know it there will not be anything left of us.Its really raining they are not spitting on us!!
16. Wrong. This blood libel would've been swallowed by Swedes.
Tahl ,   Ashdod, Israel   (08.24.09)
The Swedish media never hid its hate and extreme bias, when reporting about Israel. Of course they'll never admit it's antisemitism or Jew-hatred (it's not PC), rather, "criticism against Israel's policies" as they like to call it. So much like the rest of Europe, the Swedish media poisons the minds of the Swedish people with hate against Israel, with outrageous stories like these. This is apparent by the shocking, hate-filled talkbacks I read in Swedish sites. Without a proper response on our side, this would've been yet another poison to the Swedes' minds - which they'd be all too happy to swallow. Staying silent would've been just as good as admitting guilt. At least now, when we expressed our complete denial and disgust with this story - even those Swedes who hate us probably admit to themselves that this blood-libel never happened. This is not being childish - this is protecting our image from horrific lies. Haven't you also learned the most important concept about justice, that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, and that the burden of proof should be upon the accuser? It sure seems like the Swedes forgot this important concept when it comes to us. Besides, after watching how Libya bent Switzerland to its knees recently and made her president grovel to Ghadafi - one can only imagine what would happen, if a Swedish newspapers offended Libya, and Ghadafi reacted similarly against Sweden. Sweden would probably sink itself just as low as Switzerland did.
17. the humble Jew
R Saus ,   TA / Zion   (08.24.09)
I'm tired of him. After thousands of years we finally have a state, a voice, an army, and now 61 years of further history Jews can be proud of. We don't have to accept these blood libels and this hatred like our forefathers, who often soon afterward met with violence & death. No more humble, weak, silent appeasing Jew. You don't speak for me Mr. Dvir, the lies against Jews unchalleneged spread like a virus. You want to be the weak humble appeasing Jew who is nonetheless vilified? You want to apologize on top of it all? Good for you, Not me and not the rest of Israel. Maybe you should go spend some time in Europe & see how the elites & the common man feel about us humble Jews over there, the hatred is seething across country after country.
18. How True - Single News Overdone
Salomon Zotter ,   Berlin, Germany   (08.24.09)
STOP to multiply single Press-copyPaste "news". Or get ur act together and really describe all the real background and connotations - but which Nazi wants to read that? Lieberman behaves like a realTime-witness of antisemitic Russian pogrome polemics. How many years a country can take that? Perhaps he can push the light rail through. Shalom sameach, salomon
19. Sweden is viciously anti-Israel
Shalom Freedman ,   Jerusalem   (08.24.09)
Sweden is a viciously anti- Israel country. There is a large and growing Islamist element. Above all there is a radical Left and yes neo- Nazi element involved. Sweden has had an anti- Israel policy for some years now. Its government's failure to react to this blood libel is an indication of this. Letting this go would be the wrong thing to do, surrending to maliciousness.
20. don't agree at all
Arn ,   Yehud, Israel   (08.24.09)
Make no mistake. The article would have faded quietly as its author says only because its monstrous and slanderous content are accepted as self-evident and a truth long "known" to be what Jews and Israelis are capable of doing. That's because this article is just one drop in a veritable storm of such articles. What Israel's reaction has done was to bring a mirror to Sweden's historic and present ugliness exposing it to the world. When all the dust will settle only Sweden will come out the loser.
21. No More
James ,   Herzeliya   (08.24.09)
Enough is enough. It is about time we stood up to these kinds of blood libel. We have been quite far too long. Dvir's idea of sweeping it under the carpet doesn't work anymore. Give them back some of their own medicine. WE ARE MAD AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE.
22. I strongly disagree with the author
David   (08.24.09)
The government of Israel did the right thing in calling out the Swedes on this. Just because the author doesn't have the guts to speak the truth and challenge lies (which is a a journalists job) doesn't mean that the Foreign Ministry should just sit back and take it, and tolerate the Swedish governments encouragement of Anti-Israel vilification.
23. Dreyyfus was accused of something less serious
Ilan ,   Ariel   (08.24.09)
24. Do not ignore History’s lessons on hate and Anti-Semitism.
Ron B. ,   Lod   (08.24.09)
Anti-Semitism, the hate of Jews, is a phenomenon on which much has been said and written. Anti-Semitism doesn’t even need Jews in order to prosper (It existed in Japan although there were no Jews living in Japan). Do not ignore the hate of Jews : you know where it starts, you never know how and when it stops. As to sweden : http://xrl.us/beiqsm
25. Screaming
Alan ,   Ashkelon   (08.24.09)
I agree with Adi Dvir on the ridiculousness of the article (and the entire newspaper for that matter - did you see that tabloid-style website??). HOWEVER, I totally DISagree with the notion that Israelis (and Jews around the world) should simply shut their traps and let this story go "unnoticed". At the slightest false rumor about Jews and Israelis, we should stand up and scream as loud as we can. Childish to do so? YES! But if were to turn our backs on every blatantly anti-Semitic remark or rumor, we'll give anti-Semites no better option than to use these lies to commit the atrocious crimes that have notoriously been, and still are, committed against Jews around the world. To target the Swedes in general may not be so problematic - let the international media spread lies about someone else doing harm for a change. How many countries have been rumored to be anti-Semitic since the Shoah? Why does the world turn its back on such criticism? Anti-Semitism is NOT a dead subject and at the slightest sight of it, we must IMMEDIATELY rage out as loud as possible to let others know that we are not about to succumb to yet another lie created to turn the world against the Jewish people.
26. The swedish Gvt is involved in that matter
avi   (08.24.09)
Sweden Funded Anti-Israel Allegations: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/133042
27. Author is dangerously ignorant of cognitive theory
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (08.24.09)
Buffalo University just released a new study corroborating a longstanding axiom: people find corroboration for what they want to believe while ignoring, dismissing and suppressing conflicting information. It isn't just Christians, or Jews, or Muslims. I've dealt with it everyday for decades. It's intrinsic in human nature and fear of "them" versus "us." This is exactly why those few crankpots who believe blood libels regard these reports as factual while those who don't believe the reports dismiss them as silly. It's called "motivated reasoning" or "motivated inference." "A report corroborates what I "know to be fact" (i.e., believe), therefore it's clearly true" or "A report contradicts what I "know to be fact" (i.e., believe), therefore it clearly is false." Reality and verifying documented fact have nothing to do with it. Those who believe this report don't need confirmation and those who disbelieve the report don't need to rule out a scandal of greed like happened with the rabbis in New York. Thus, such articles become "fact"--to be cited as historical fact in future--in the minds of those predisposed to believe it. That's the same danger that presented itself in the Nazis and other racist thinking. Suggested it be ignored is no less folly than pre-WWII arguments poo-pooing the Nazi threat. Combatting "motivated reasoning" is a special challenge that requires a specialized response. A pivotal remedy that has no substitute is for media and the courts to require accountability for slander--strictly enforced and without exception. If the legally-defined "reasonable person" can find no basis in truth for a charge in a court of law, then it is slander and should be harshly punished. Slander is NOT free speech... but Israel and Jews cannot practice slander themselves while preaching to others that slandering Jews is unacceptable. That is naked hypocrisy. That may seem unimportant but the reality is that such hypocritical pleas will continue to be laughed at and ignored. Israel and Jews must lead the way in eliminating slander from the media. As Torah teaches, slander is murder of the person and it incites increasingly dangerous, and even violent, responses. How can Jews ignore the many emirical lessons of history that prove this repeatedly? Ever heard the phrases sinat khinom or leshon ha ra? See current article in our Web Cafe in the website below that explores "Combatting "Motivated Reasoning." Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-keeper & Orthodox Jew Advocate for Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il
28. The Swedish article
Helen Har-Tal ,   Israel   (08.24.09)
This is a case of anti semitism, it also a case of libel. The editor knew there was no proof but he published it anyways. Would he have done that if it was any other country any other people? It opens questions, he said. What question? "Why are Jews still around? I ask a lawyer to do the right thing and bring a suit against the newspaper for libel. The editor admits they p[rinted an article based on unverified rumors. They didn't even write that these are rumors, they stated it as facts.
29. First Facts verified - tough duty.
Salomon Zotter ,   Berlin, Germany   (08.24.09)
Fights and "wars" are dirty. False evidence can easily be presented. If some well-meaning eg IDF doctor gave an evaluated Palestinian organs of a dead one - which well-meaning person would hold that against him? There is a certain probability that something like stated can have taken place or could be faked "court-proof". To cry out is very necessary - as a strategic, but not as a situational duty for Israel and humanity. Stay cool and professional :-)
30. @16 Tahl
NilsG ,   Helsingborg, Sweden   (08.24.09)
Tahl, With all due respect, and realising that you are quite right - many TBs in Swedish newspaper are indeed both shocking and hate-filled - would you consider as possible that many TBs even in Ynet, and other web sites in Israel, could be perceived as rather virulent towards Swedes in general, rather than simply against the tabloid that published the article? Consider this as an example: "The Eurotrash descendants of Esau still hate us as their lands are being taken over by Arabs." And it is far from the worst. But then, perhaps we are fair game.
Next talkbacks
Back to article