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B'Tselem: 773 of Palestinians killed in Cast Lead were civilians
Ynet
Published: 09.09.09, 09:19
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1. B'Tselem response to the ICT report is weak
The Dude   (09.09.09)
That is a cute argument, but doesn't answer the one important aspect. Why are the statistics so lopsided for males of fighting age? If they are arguing that this was indiscriminate use of force such as 'entire neighborhood obliterate' why aren't there more women targeted? And why are most youths average age 17? There should be this thing called a Gaussian distribution. Reflecting the population make up, unless B'Tselem would like to argue that Gaza is composed of 80% male and 20% female? This shows that first the IDF was targeting people in specific manner. If it had just been blowing buildings at random and shooting 'white flaggers' the number women killed should be higher than 22%! The ICT statistical analysis cannot be declared causative, but the correlations are quite damming. Also again B'tselem falls into the same pitfall as AI and HRW where they base everything off of eyewitness accounts. Yet refuses to taken in any data of the IDF. B'tselem is right to say based on data that not all 24 years olds in Gaza are affiliated with a terror organization. But you cannot on the other hand proclaim indiscriminate assaults with such lopsided values taken from a non-Israeli source. The male to female ratio really looks like something out of a war, not random slaughter.
2. B'Tselem
Ricardo Macher ,   KarneiShomron Israel   (09.09.09)
Who the hell is this so called Human Rights Group but a bunch of pathetic self haters counted with the fingers of two hands and backed by anti Israel international groups? Why should anybody care about what they say or even about if they exist or not? Why should they be given free press if there position is bluntly anti Israel? If they don't like Israel (for sure they don't serve in the army) why don't they go away?
3. because afterwards, Hamas hailed them as martyrs
observer   (09.09.09)
27 children were shot by Israeli troops demonstrates a tendency to shoot to kill even in situations where the victim was causing no imminent danger to the soldiers concerned.
4. Let's compare conflicts
paul ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (09.09.09)
I wonder what these reports would look like if B'tselem had the opportunity, with same hostile agenda, towards causalities from; WWI, WWII, all US and Allied forces conflicts in the Middle East, Africa's conflicts and all Muslim conflicts. Considering that Arabs need civilian causalities to promote their cause through arousing the skewed sympathies of the west, these civilians are to be considered tools of their war strategy and must be viewed as non-innocence. Praise should be given the IDF for their restraint, and condemnation for not finishing the job.
5. 330=Terrorist and 773=Gunmen Are these civilians?
IDF   (09.09.09)
6. The law of war.
Ron B. ,   Lod   (09.09.09)
It should be clear and beyond doubt : although the IDF is the most moral army in the world, our main concerne should be, first of all, to keep our children alive. Any other consideration is of minor importance. As to the Arabs they don’t want peace as explained at : http://xrl.us/be3agy
7. MORE HEADLINES GIVEN TO TOTALLY DISCREDITED AND FOREIGN
ALBA ,   ADRIA   (09.09.09)
FINANCED ORGANIZATIONS!
8. but that is the problem
Danny   (09.09.09)
Btselem, quite rightly, dont get into the arguments about whether X is a member of Hamas but rather whether at the moment of his death he was shooting. Obviously this is not the same as being a civilian. It is just the rest of the world reports "not actively involved in hostilities" as being civilians.
9. German court allowed Jihad as name for newly born boy,
observer   (09.09.09)
because the wide definition of Jihad includes more; struggling, other than arm fighting. martyred during “an honorable jihad mission” fulfilling his “national commitment” -- is that in-retrospect proof of a combatant? Has the Israeli High Court already discussed decided upon the issue?
10. #2 not self haters
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (09.09.09)
You incorrectly call B'Tselem organization "self haters" when they are self lovers. Members of this organization are very well-paid by foreign governments and anti-Israeli NGOs to publish this "research".
11. observer #3
(09.09.09)
Strange you condemn Israel. Where is your, Betselem's and the world's outrage when a few days ago US/UK forces massacred at least 90 people in a single attack in Afghanistan because they were drunk?
12. The price of war
Mark ,   Jerusalem   (09.09.09)
This is the cost of war when civilians are used as human shields when Israel can not be blamed for. Please take a look of the photo that was on this article, do you notice how they are posing for this picture.
13. strang but they keep changing the number of dead
ghostq   (09.09.09)
mmm someone is foolish playing with the numbers for political use sound like a situation of inhuman did the dead or their family approved that nop, betzelem lost their human espect by all means.
14. to #9 stupid coparison Germans r
ghostq   (09.09.09)
also able to name their children Adolf, it doesn't mean that is positive name.
15. We don't want revenge...
Nour ,   Palestine   (09.09.09)
Only the perpetrators of deliberate civilian massacres to be arrested and given thorough trial. Or is that too much to ask in "the Middle East's only democracy"? Is Palestinian life so cheap for Israel? And one wonders why peace hasn't arrived yet?
16.  B'Chelem? Non issue, then
anatevka   (09.09.09)
17. How many of the so called civilians were killed AFTER ?
Vicky ,   Ashkelon Israel   (09.09.09)
Don't let us forget that immediately after the so called cease fire Hamas took over their only hospital and tortured and killed their own Civilians, how many of them are included in that sickening B'tselem list? The majority I should imagine. Olmert's Daughter is an activist of this group, and what they do not understand in their own ignorance is that given a chance Hamas would kill them first. You cannot be an Israeli profess to be Jewish and commit treason, which is exactly what B'tselem members are doing.
18. Hamas counted people who died of natural causes as well
Alan ,   SA   (09.09.09)
19. # 5
SAM ,   ME   (09.09.09)
Same argument that Hamas uses to Kill Israeli civilians? They say that Israelis all carry guns so they are not civilians!!!? So you are thinking like terrorists now????
20. Bad luck
Raphael ,   Netanya   (09.09.09)
for the some 600 civilian Fatah supporters executed by Hamas in 2007: they will not deserve any place in Allah's gardens, unlike their executioners killed during Cast Lead bearing a civilian version of AK47, which makes them civilian martyrs.
21. A couple of points:
Michael Steiner ,   Bahrain   (09.09.09)
1- If you can't handle a war, don't start one; 2- Since B'tzelem has a problem with how we conducted this war AND it acknowledges that our enemies had no compunction using their own people as human shields, may I suggest that next time the terrorists lob rockets over the international border of Israel, B'Tzelem sends a patrol of its volunteers and arrest the perpetrators? Let's see how they fare!
22. BTselem donors
Peter Clark ,   South Africa   (09.09.09)
For the list of donors to this organization, see this link http://www.btselem.org/english/About_BTselem/Donors.asp
23. DANIEL EDELSON AND YNET = PRO-ARAB PROPAGANDA
(09.09.09)
24. #21 Who started the war? CNN had the answer!!
Wael ,   Ramallah   (09.09.09)
It was Israel who started the war. The whole world knows it. It's when the ceasefire was BREACHED by Israel in November 08 with the targetted assassination of Hamas operatives in Gaza. Even CNN acknowledges this fact (surprise!). What ensued was retaliatory missile firing. Keep repeating to yourself your own version of history but it won't change the facts: Israel is a war crime in itself. By the way, I challenge you to voice your views in Bahrain. A word of advice: Don't bite the hand that feeds you. The Bahrainis are behind the Palestinian people nomatter what garbage you spread around the Net.
25. This is chutzpah: Welcome to Darfur!
zeroing ,   Stuttgart, Germany   (09.09.09)
These people take side with the sworn enemy of their holy Nation and sell their own people to please the world of God and Jew haters, so they can earn money and worldly fame like Nobel prize for peace. Where would all these people be by now without the sacrifice of IDF and the true Zionists? What are they really trying to achieve in taking side with the sworn enemy of Eretz Israel? Do they read bible? Do they believe it? And if they don't believe it, what are they seeking in Eretz Israel? For Believers, Israel is the holy Land of the Jews and for Non-Believers it is the disputed Land of the Arabs.
26. 99.99% of the murdered by Arab terrorists are civilians
(09.09.09)
... while civilians killed by IDF during combat were either used by Hamas as human shields, or deliberately went into combat areas to challenge IDF. By doing that, they've automatically defined themselves as combatants and as such legitimate targets, even if IDF did not target them. To make things worse, Hamas terrorists shed their "uniforms" and disguised themselves as civilians. IDF cannot take the chance to assume that a figure donning civ closes in a combat area in the fog of war is a civilian. During war you shoot to kill ANYTHING in a combat area. It was Hamas' duty not to start this war and after they forced a war upon themselves, to protect the civilian population from any harm. B'Tselem is again posting a libelus acusation without ANY PROOF - or worse, based on "proof" supplied by Paliwood and their UNRWA and other Islamo-Leftist gangs! And of course, B'Tselem deals only with one side of the conflict while absolving the real attakers and terrorists from any critique. B'Tselem is a totally irrelevant "human rights" organization since it only takes care of one kind of "humans" - Palestinian and Islamist terrorists and their supporters.
27. #22 Yes, that's a partial "who's who" ISRAEL HATERS CLUB!
(09.09.09)
28. #24
Shlomo Kamra   (09.09.09)
Israel will never admit to this fact, and will always blame the Gazans for starting the war. Israel also believes that it is incapable of doing harm to anyone, and that their man in the sky told them not to kill anyone, except non-jews! Nour, jews do not value any Palestinian's life-they prove this EVERY day, and on here as well.
29. MORAL OF STORY: ARABS SEEK PEACE, NOT WAR, simple enough
........DACON9   (09.09.09)
OH YES I FORGOT A SIDE NOTE: YOU SO CALLED CIVILIANS: IN THE NEXT WAR YOU WILL CAUSE... DO NOT OFFER ANY HUMUS AND KIBE TO YOUR TERRORIST FIGHTERS AND MOST OF ALL KICK THEM AWAY FROM HIDING IN YOUR HOUSES. YOU ARABS HAVE BEEN FIGHTING JEWS FOR 4000 YEARS AND YOU ALWAYS LOSE... WHEN DO YOU THINK OF PEACE ACCORDING TO ISRAELNOT ACCORDING TO YOUR LYING LEADERS WHO STEAL ALL YOUR MONEY?
30. B'tselem
gadot ,   herzlia   (09.09.09)
B'teselem did not pass math in school.they did get 100% in hate my country,love my killers.
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