Jewish Scene  Dan Rickman
Circumcision and its critics
Dan Rickman
Published: 23.09.09, 08:37
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
81 Talkbacks for this article
1. stupid pagan custop jews don't even know
ghostq   (09.23.09)
the real source of it and it got nothing to do with YAWUA. more like pagan god ritual.
2. Barbaric practice that should be banned
Avi ,   Israel   (09.23.09)
3. nu? so is there a decline in Israel?
arieh o'sullivan ,   jerusalem   (09.23.09)
it's incomprehensible from the article whether there is a decline in circumcisions in israel. also, please elaborate on the rift it is/might causing. thanks,
4. Cicumcision is important for health reasons and also more
Rivkah   (09.23.09)
importantly for bringing people under the covenant with Abraham from the Lord. Anyone who does not want to be covered by that covenant is extremely unwise. It is true that those who believe in the Jewish Messiah Rabbi Yeshua are covered by his circumcision as part of his body of faith. But since it pleases the Lord for males to be circumcised (Moses was at age 80 years), why not do what pleases the Creator? If you are a slave to the Lord and His commandments and covenants, you are better off eternally since not being the Lord's slave means eternal separation from the Lord and His goodness and provision and comfort and rewards to those who diligently seek Him and try to please Him.
5. The baby's body.. the baby's decision!! (when he's 18)
Gene ,   Tel Aviv   (09.23.09)
In the absence of overt medical necessity, it is completely immoral for parents to perform this barbaric blood ritual ON SOMEONE ELSE for their own dogmatic superstitious beliefs. Far from being a benign procedure, recent evidence has shown it to greatly decrease sexual pleasure and function.. but I suppose for religious Jews (and according to Maimonides himself) that's an actual side-benefit! I'm glad to read that my fellow secular Israelis are finally rejecting this barbaric practice.
6. I don't know...
Anna ,   Be'er Sheva, Israel   (09.23.09)
What kind of Jew are you if you don't do brit mila? If we lose our cosums, we lose ourselves...
7. All this talk about sharp knives and foreskins
Erastus CoupeDeVille ,   Ong's Hat, NJ USA   (09.23.09)
is making my winkie start to shrivel in horror.
8. to #6 it's a pagan ritual y do you think it's jewish?
ghostq   (09.23.09)
just because that along the years jews practiced it it doesn't mean it's not taken from pagan ritual, along with the star of David witch is also pagan symbol.
9. My husband had a medical brit as an adult.
rebecca ,   Modiin   (09.23.09)
He's pretty unhappy that his parents didnt get it done when he was a baby, when it was an easy op and quickly forgotton. His was major surgury, he still has scar tissue, and he can still remeber the pain. Can he sue his parents for not looking after his health as a child?
10. 5 Gene, Tel Aviv: Most males (I cannot call them men) want
Rivkah   (09.23.09)
sex too often with their wives or girlfriends or mistresses or whatever receptacle they are using for lust. The Bible says a man should ONLY have sex with his wife and that should occur ONLY after the week following the menses, not during the menses. That decreases the chances of women getting infections of the reproductive and urinary tracts since women are very vulnerable to infections during menses. Look at Jenna Bush who married last year. She looks so depressed and haggard, I suspect she is being raped half to death by a husband who does not follow Jewish instructions on sex in marriage. The Bushes claim Jewish ancestry and President Bush the Younger even had a kosher kitchen White House. Two weeks a month a woman should be available for sex for her husband, but not during the menses or the week following the menses.
11. ???
Jew   (09.23.09)
Aside from the religious aspect, aren't many medical experts saying that circumcision prevents Aids?
12. Why so tough?
fellowjew ,   Jerusalem   (09.23.09)
Why is this such a tough decision for parents? I can understand the ceremony being emotional...but G-d said we must do it, so we do. We must stop trying to make Judaism align with the moral standards of society at large and make our desires align with those of Torah. Besides - - what man wants to do this when he's 18?
13. #4 Rivkah - Do you hear yourself? Are you out of your mind?!
Gene ,   Tel Aviv   (09.23.09)
14. Documentary hypothesis
JIm T ,   England   (09.23.09)
The commandment to circumcise was added later by the "priestly source" along with other rituals so that the religion didn't die out. This was after the Babylonian exile when Jews were assimilated into Babylonian culture. So God didn't command anything I'm afraid. Read Marked in your flesh:circumcision from ancient Judea to modern America by Leonard Glick Circumcision is totally unethical and worsens sexual function. Just google or youtube "foreskin functions" There are also plenty of babies that have died or been severely mutilated because of infant circumcision.
15. to #13 hahahaha you don't have rivk English
ghostq   (09.23.09)
English dictionary, let me translate what she said, she doesn't like the casuall sex teen and married people in center of Israel, the modern easy way of life she is putting to much emphesis on the women that men in this equition, she just gave you examples for that personaly I disagree with Rivk cause some traditions come from the wrong place, but I guess it's up to you to decide.
16. 13 She's a Scientologist. So yes, she's out of her mind
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (09.23.09)
17. 14 "Documentary" what!?! (Tho "conspiracy" more accurate)
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (09.23.09)
18. 13 - yes, and yes
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (09.23.09)
19. circumcision is what makes us Jews
eddie ,   london UK   (09.23.09)
I would go further than Dan, and point out that it is circumcision which determiens our Jewishness, not whether our mother was Jewish. Hnece, the man who isnt circumcised is "cut off from his people", ie is disenfranchised from his people. On the other hand, the Torah requires that a convert is circumcised, in order to join the Israelite nation. One cannot be an uncircumcised Jew.
20. It reminds me of a story from the Shoa
m   (09.23.09)
A woman with a bundle in her hands jumped a Nazi who had a little knife sticking out of his pocket and snatched it. She didn't try to kill the Nazi, nor herself, she uncovered the bundle which held a baby and circumcised the baby before the astonished eyes of the onlookers just before being killed together with her baby by the Nazi. Who says that we don't live in great times, when we have everything and we sqable and we want to leave our roots? But there are people who will remind you that even with your foreskin you still are born a JEW.
21. De Rigeur for Jews
Yisrael ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (09.23.09)
If you are a cultural, culinary, coronary Jew, you do you whatever you want anyway, and you will soon disappear, just like similar Galut Jews are disappearing. If you think Jews have any connection with Hashem at all, then the Brit is essential !!
22. 19 Eddie - almost all, but no cigar
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (09.23.09)
In cases where one (or two?) siblings died from circumcision the mitzwah of circumcision is waived in the case of the subsequent son. I forget whether circumcision is then optional depending on the parents or prohibited, probably based on piquakh nephesh. I'm writing this from memory so the conditions should be properly verified but this is the general idea and any Orthodox rabbi can provide the correct details. Circumcision is one of the 613 mitzwot. Granted, except in cases of piquakh nephesh it is required that we do our utmost to comply--no differently than every other remaining 612 mitzwot. However, it is the b'rit, comprising all 613 mitzwot according to the beit din system (i.e. Halakhah), to which our people repeatedly committed themselves (and ourselves), that makes us Israel / Jews. What makes this distinction essential rather than pedantic is that Jews can no more select which mitzwot to keep than Christians or Muslims can. (If Jews could, then so could Christians--including Jews for Jzeus--and Muslims... making them right too.) Embracing that b'rit is open to everyone who desires to live according to Torah and I invite and encourage them to do so. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer (& Orthodox Jew) Advocate for Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming All Torah-reverers (Jewish & Goyim) www.netzarim.co.il
23. NO 9
JEAN CLAUDE MORA ,   LONDON   (09.23.09)
YOU HAVE MADE A VERY GOOD POINT ,WICH WAS NOT ADRESSED IN THE THE ARTICLE. I KNOW WICH WAY I WOULD PREFER!!!!!! THANK YOU, YOU MY PARENTS FOR HAVING DONE IT WHEN I WAS A BABY! JEAN CLAUDE MORA
24. Dan Rickman: Circumcision and its critics
Leonora   (09.23.09)
This is such an emotive topic. There are times when circumcision is prohibited, such as if a child has a bleeding disorder. Circumcision doesn't make a Jewish boy part of the tribe. He is, anyway. I have heard Jewish people say some quite insulting things about uncircumcised men. We need to hold off and remember that externalities are merely that, external, and we need to keep an open mind about what we see and hear. I went along with the circumcision of my two boys, but I hated to be conniving in inflicting that pain.
25. to #20 this is dumb the holocaust got nothing
ghostq   (09.23.09)
with this, some Chritians also get circumcise don't ask me y.
26. Sex and Pain...Getting to the heart of the matter
Jacob Blues ,   New York City   (09.23.09)
Look, quick show of hands. How many men actually remember their own bris? I can't, my son doesn't, and I know of no Jewish acquaintance that wound up on the therapists couch because of getting circumcised. As for pain? My son went through worse when he fell off his bicycle two weeks ago and gashed up his leg. As for the sex part, in 42 years of life, I have yet to have a discussion with any Jewish male that included... Wow, I just don't enjoy sex, it must be the fact that I'm circumcised. What is truly amazing is that the same people who complain about the issue of circumcission have no problems with the sporting of tattoos or body piercings, even when those who have their ears pierced are toddler girls.
27. Circumcision
(09.23.09)
Of course circumcision is an integral part of Judaism, but you didn't mention the very reason we insist on it: for hygenic purposes. It has been proved that uncircumcised males have a tendency to get many more sexual diseases than uncircumcised males.
28. we didn't circumcize
Israeli   (09.23.09)
we are not religious so it has no meaning for us and seemed a barbaric practice with a small possibility of complications. It is his decision if he wants to do a brit and so far he is fine with his foreskin and doesn't "suffer" socially.
29. Circumcision
(09.23.09)
In America, many males who aren't Jewish are also circumcised and they don't seem to be complaining about a loss of sexual function as a result. However, what I frequently hear is women who worry about whether the non-Jewish men they're dating might not have been circumcised since it's optional for them. In fact, I don't think the anti-circumcision zealots...especially the ones who attempt to reverse their own circumcisions, realize how repulsed many women (Jews and non-Jews) are by the sight of uncircumcised males unless they're from a generation when non-Jews weren't circumcised.
30. 16 - rivka has more in common with you
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (09.23.09)
you a scientologist, too?
Next talkbacks
Back to article