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UK court denies petition against Barak
Roni Sofer
Published: 29.09.09, 20:37
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28 Talkbacks for this article
1. Clear conscience
JJ ,   The Hague, NL   (09.29.09)
If Barak is capable to defend his country, the man should be capable to defend himself. He obviously has a clear conscience, so there's nothing to fear. Right?
2. As Time Goes By ........
World Citizen ,   the world   (09.29.09)
more and more Israeli politicians and military commanders will find that they cannot risk leaving Israel for fear of arrest. This is as it should be. What was justification to arrest former Nazis is applicable to other evil criminals as well. War crimes are war crimes. Even when Israelis commit them.
3. UK police are right not to mess with Israeli security
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, USA   (09.29.09)
Israel has never pursued its historic grievances against the UK, going back to the earliest days of the Mandate - illegally ceding the Golan to the French, standing by as Jews were massacred in Hebron in '29, blocking Jewish immigration, arming the Arab Legion, and much more. Arresting an Israeli official based on Muslim complaints would be beyond an "unfriendly act", and Israel would be well within its rights to retaliate. But the UK is going to be the loser in the end. It's already the terror gateway into Europe, and its growing Muslim population will leave it unrecognizable within a generation.
4. J"accuse !...Does this remind you of anybody?
Roland Seener ,   London England   (09.29.09)
5. World Citizen, #2
Jason, Ph.D. ,   Charlotte, USA   (09.29.09)
Mr. World Citizen, The problem with the UN report is that if Israel committed war crimes, then any country that has ever gone to war has also committed war crimes. There is no sense of balance or comparison of this conflict to others. Can you understand this concept, or do you think that everything that comes out of the U.N. is always right?
6. J.J. (#1) and socalled "World Citizen (#2):
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (09.29.09)
Number 1: We wouldn't trust our well-being to biased judges and biased courts. It's plain to see and no further comment on that matter is necessary. Number 2: Your title, "World Citizen" and your address, "The World", are assurances that your empty bombast and ignorance which you show in this and every other Talkback are not coincidences. Perhaps you would like to infiltrate the pages of Haaretz, a newspaper set up precisely for people like you. Consider it an invitation so that here, on YNet, we can actually involve ourselves in intelligent discussion without interruptions from ridiculous people like you.
7. Welcome to the Terrorist Club Israel, take a seat
homeless ,   israeli   (09.29.09)
next to Hamas and Al Qaida, well done.
8. QB VIII - Leon Uris Where are you?
meir elazar   (09.29.09)
In QB VII the son of a holocaust survivor writes an expose' about a Nazi "Doctor" who performed horrendous experiments on Jews. The Nazi sues the son of the holocaust survivor for defamation of character. At the end of the book the court find the journalist "Guilty" of libel and finds him a half-penny which is the lowest coin in the realm and what if any the Nazi's name is worth. While I do not and have never approved of Barak, this is an attack on Israel and its right to self-defense in the face of relentless terrorist attacks. It is no less that attacking the right of rape victim to defend herself or a victim in a terrorist attack defending one's self and killing the terrorist. In Saudi Arabia the raped women can be flogged. It is clear that Arab countries and societies including Britain, where Arabs are now an occupying force, promote the idea that it is the inherent right to behead Missionaries in Philippines along with Berg and Pearle, to commit terrorist attrocities in Bali, Jordan, Beslan, WTC, Pentagon, and hundreds more incidents, and to launch tens of thousands of rockets and mortars against Israel with total impunity. It is perfectly acceptable that the HAMAS charter clearly calls for the destruction of Israel and the murder of all Jews and Israelis, a position which is clearly parroted by Ahmadinejad, all with total impunity. Well the lessons of WW II and concentration camps HAVE BEEN LEARNED. With 2/3 of our people MURDERED while the world stood by. The Spirit of St. Louis was turned away from one port after another including USA and the ship had to return to Hamburg where the people were sent to Death camps. The Allies fought to protect themselves - Not us. So as I see the array of Terrorists funded by Terrorist States and supported by all the terrorist sympathizer and anti_Semites and the UN Anti-Israel Bashing Society. No, this time we will not surrender, we will not go into Arab "Gas chambers", we will not give up without a fight, and we will use EVERY MEANS NECESSARY TO DEFEND OURSELVES BAR NONE. The Arabs attacked our cities and citizens in Intifada 1 & 2 but we devised highly successful counter-terror measures with border crossings, road blocks, and the Fence. This has cost the PALs freedom of movement, jobs, money, etc. The blockade is a direct result of their terrorist actions and the terrorist along with those who voted for them putting them in power are paying the high price. When will the Arab terrorists learn that Terror is counter productive? We will we learn that this conflict cannot continue forever and some difficult decisions must be made? It seems like too many people are suffering from Stockholm syndrome and unable to face the reality proposed by HAMAS. They want all or nothing. No compromise deal is acceptable. Therefore their position demands that we made some hard decisions and get it over.
9. More UK" Human Rights" Show Business
(09.29.09)
10. #1 to 7 So which has killed the most civilians?
Ken ,   Europe   (09.29.09)
11. No 5 and 6
World Citizen ,   the world   (09.29.09)
No. 5 - I don't think that everything that comes out of the UN is perfect. What I do believe is that the Nuremburg Trials and the Geneva Convention(s) established standards or rules if you will by which war shall be waged. Whether Israelis believe they are obeying or not obeying those rules is irrelevant. What matters is how the world in general purceives the matter. At the current time a majority of the world believes that the Israeli military is guilty of gross violations of human rights. The majority of the world has now shifted from believing that Israelis and Jews are the victims of oppression to an opinion that Israelis are systematically oppressing the Palestinian people. They also feel that your country is much more dangerous to the world than countries like Afghanistan, Syria and Iran. They also resent Jews in the diaspora that facilitate and make excuses for the criminal actions of your country. The end result of these world perceptions is that Israel is slowly being isolated by the world community. You might laugh and think, "That's fine, Israel can go it alone." I can assure you that kind of logic is flawed. Israel is only a Middle Eastern power because of the backing of the United States. When the US paper dollar falls to its true value, zero, where will Israel get the money it needs to project its military power? Do you think the Russians or Chinese are going to give you anything? Your country has alienated much of world. My personal opinion is that the people of Israel have painted themselves into a corner they cannot get out of. You will reap the whirlwind you have so carelessly sown. No 6. Is that all you have? Ad hominem attacks and smears? Surely a person of Israel extraction can do better than that? If your country's government is paying you to come on-line and defend the record of its military then they are getting robbed. You are pitiful.
12. Robert (#6)
JJ ,   The Hague, NL   (09.29.09)
In the light of the latest developments, I tend to agree with you: the biased judge found a modus to let mr B off the hook. It doesn't take away the necessity to thoroughly investigate (alleged) war crimes and Israel still fails to do this. The consequence: an ongoing hunt for those accountable for what happened in Gaza (and other places).
13. Britain has sent its Chief of Staff to Kirya& invited Baraar
Alan ,   SA   (09.29.09)
to visit UK to advise Brown and Foreign Office and no doubt UK Staff Corps on how to handle all the mess that UK is in . These "Palestinians" and other UK bearded ones dont want to see UK obtain a bit of advise on the correct winning Military strategy in its Afghan Campaign, so they harass Barak and any other Israeli Military man who can help UK
14. meir elazar
Jerry1800   (09.29.09)
I agree 100%
15. why investigate Israel?
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (09.29.09)
#1 why investigate Israel and not Judge Goldstein? There is more evidence that Goldstein participated and filmed hard paedophelia than that Israel commited war crimes. And as you say, if he has a clear conscience, he has nothing to fear, right?
16. immunity means he is certainly guilty
observer   (09.29.09)
Barak!, try not to make the slightest mistake; try not to lose your place in the government or in the party; try not to travel to the UK or any other country; try not to sleep without brushing you teeth.
17. who killed most civilians
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (09.29.09)
Where? Do you mean in the Israeli-Arab conflict? Most civilians killed would be Fatah. Second place, would be Hamas. Any other questions?
18. World Cit-U base yr thesis on Israel being a total ward of
Alan ,   SA   (09.29.09)
the USA . The so called "WORLD" of which U are a proud citizen, is composed mostly of morally or financially bankrupt states.How many states are worthwhile states today ? . You may well be right about the destination of the $$$.However, who are you to prophesy where Israel will be financially in X years .Israel doesnt only export Melons and Oranges . How do you know the state of Israel's alliances in the World of today,let alone in many years hence . Having failed to destroy Israel by military and terror means ,our enemies try other means ranging from Goldstone- type Enquiries to Applications to UK Courts( as today occured) to demographic overwhelmings . We Jews are a resourceful people.We will face challenges as they come as we always have in the past We are still on the planet after a few thousand years . We dont need your advice,thank you
19. World Citizen, #11
Jason, Ph.D. ,   Charlotte, USA   (09.29.09)
First of all, I maintain that Israel's actions were much more humane than, for example, the U.S. and England's acttons in WW2. Should these countries be tried for war crimes? Even if much of the world faults Israel, I also know that the people who attack Israel the most are usually from the most depraved regimes in the world. These people do not like the U.S. any more than Israel, and the U.S. will never join them. Israel is light years ahead of them with regard to human rights. There is another factor that people rarely discuss. If evil does truly prevail, and the world community really tries to isolate Israel, it must be remembered that Israel has 200+ nuclear weapons, along with a submarine-based second strike capability. Israel simply has to say that it will not tolearate being isolated, or else it will use them, on its enemies, and there is absolutely nothing anybody can do about this. The truth is that U.N. is more evil than good, and more defunct than its predecessor the League of Nations. It is also a paper tiger that does not pick on truly strong regimes (such as China) regardless of what they do. (How about Tibet.?) What people forget is that with its huge nuclear arsenal and second strike cabablity, there is a little that the world can do against an Israel that has been backed up against a wall. If people think Israel is a very dangerous country, they are right. But only if Israel is provoked.
20. JJ-What U mean by "Biased judg found modus to let B off hook
Alan ,   SA   (09.29.09)
You mean she doesnt run a kangaroo court like my Countryman Judge Goldstone .You have no confidence in UK judges but have confidence in Judges from my Country .I am flattered JJ. Thank You
21. to all
(09.29.09)
barak obama as we speak endorsed a military operation in afghanistan that killed 164 innocent civilians. another usa and british operation in afghanistan killed 67 innocent civilians last month. SHOULD WE NOT ALSO HOLD OBAMA AND THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER ON GENOCIDE AND WAR CRIME CHARGES????? nato allies killed in bosnia more than 3,000 innocent civilians in the war with serbia. should we not charge british, american and french as well as dutch military personell with war crimes against the innocent bosnians????? after all, these killings of the innocent were the result of these countries presidents giving direct permission to bomb and kill anyone as long as the coalition of nato armies won the battle. should we not bring to the hague george bush, spanish troops, french and british troops allowed by the prime ministers and politicians in these countries to go on military bombings of the enemy in iraq where hundreds of thousands innocent iraqis were killed "by mistake"? i do nor see ANY DIFFERENCE between the israeli army's operation in cast lead where their country's enemies were across the border and very close and lobbed 12,000 deadly missiles on israel and the military operations and bombings by the nato allies permitted by all these presidents of european countries and the usa and british, where killing of thousands of innocents were the result of the bombings....and the "enemy" was not even across their border, much less able to bomb their citizens with impunity. go figure. what is good for the goose (israel) is good for the gander (european coalition and nato bombings and killing). now, when we see a single european and american general, prime minister, president and officer, brought to trial at the hague for killing of innocents and war crimes resulting from their bombing campaign, then we can justify israeli military personnel as well as prime ministers or army officers being brought to the hague. until then. this is hypocrisy! hameed aboughaze, iranian
22. Frivolous lawsuit brought by pro-Pali media hounds
usa   (09.30.09)
OF COURSE Barak has diplomatic immunity. This is just a silly stunt pulled by pro-Pali fanatics who are trying to draw attention to their dubious political agenda. When the mad monkey of Iran came to New York last week, nobody saw pro-Israeli protesters scrambling to file useless lawsuits to have him arrested for war crimes, even though his filthy regime tacitly supports known terrorist organizations like Hamas and Hezbullah. Pro-pali supporters can really be insufferably obvious, can't they.
23. GIVE THE ARABS / MUSLIMS A TASTE OF THEIR OWN MEDICINE !!
ABRAHAM ben JACOB ,   CANADA   (09.30.09)
THEIR ARE PLENTY OF ARABS AND MUSLIMS IN EUROPE. THERE ARE SOME MUSLIM LAWYERS WHO FILE COMPLAINTS AGAINST ISRAELI OFFICIALS. THERE ARE ALSO PLENTY OF JEWISH LAWYERS AS WELL. JEWISH LAWYERS CAN TAKE THE SAME STEPS AGAINST ARAB/MUSLIM OFFICIALS AND DO TO THEM THAT THEY DO TO VISITING ISRAELIS. TWO CAN PLAY THE SAME GAME. JEWISH LAWYERS CAN DO THIS JOB AS WELL AND PROBABLY NETTER THAN THE ARAB OR MUSLIM LAWYERS. INSTEAD OF PLAYING DEFENSIVELY, JEWISH LAWYERS SHOULD BE PRO-ACTIVE AND DROWN THOSE SAME ARABS / MUSLIMS WITH LOTS OF LEGAL PAPERWORK.
24.  # 8 .... YOU ARE 100 PERCENT RIGHT !!
ABRAHAM ben JACOB ,   CANADA   (09.30.09)
#8..MEIR ELAZAR MAKES A LOT OF REAL COMMON SENSE AND SUMS UP THE SITUATION QUITE CORRECTLY. IT ALWAYS BOILS DOWN TO ........ IT'S " US " AGAINST " THEM "...............WE MUST DO WHATEVER NEEDS TO BE DONE TO WIN.
25. Operation PUMP THEM FULL OF LEAD
Sean ,   Montréal, Québec   (09.30.09)
This is not the first time diplomatic immunity has been used to avoid prosecution.
26. #25 it's "purge them out of lead" op.
observer   (09.30.09)
27. #10 Ken - The Palestinian Killed More and They are Proud of
meir elazar   (09.30.09)
It. In normalized numbers the Palestinian have killed more Israelis and are proud of it all the way to the point that they claim they won the war. HAMAS has set the exchange rate of ONE Israeli is worth 1500 Arabs. Therefore if HAMAS succeeded in killing 10 Israeli (Equivalent of 15,000 Arabs) and we only killed 1400 while trying not to, that is not even the equivalent of ONE Israeli. According to the official scoring system of HAMAS they won Operation Cast Lead by 25,000 to 1400. Apparently we will have to try much harder next time.
28. Meir Elazar , give correct facts please
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (09.30.09)
You made some errors . first of all , not 2/3 of the Jewish people were murdered , one third is already more than enough . The St Louis [ not the "spirit of" ] did'nt return to Hamburg . First 228 Jews were disembarked in the UK , the remaining 618 in Antwerp [ Belgium ] They went to France [ 224 ] the Netherlands [ 181 ] and the remaining 214 were allowed to stay in Belgium . It's estimated that 392 of those 618 survived ,
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