Opinion
Disengaging from Israel
Eldad Beck
Published: 13.10.09, 11:21
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26 Talkbacks for this article
1. Re: "Disengaging from Israel" Again and again we see
Kalman   (10.13.09)
what the chilonim in Israel do to religious Jews and hareidim, the world does back to Israel. MIDAH KENEGED MIDAH!!!!
2. Why not?
(10.13.09)
Thanks to the Kadima regime, Obama has decided to abandon Israel. Why shouldn't the Turks do the same?
3. Turkey
Simon ,   UK   (10.13.09)
Will turkey really be a bridge between the ME and the EU or at Trojan Horse for Islamic Extremism. I think the latter. Europe beware.
4. Dear Mr. Kalman:
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (10.13.09)
Turkey's disengagement is not some part of the divine plan and punishment because of the alleged treatment of a certain segment of Israel's religious population by another segment. Your statement is tantamount to the oft heard statement that the Holocaust was retribution for generations of previous (Jewish) sinners. But here's a simple thought, Mr. Kalman: Why not begin a campaign encouraging Israelis not to visit Turkey for (cheap) vacations given how the Turks are now dismissing us. I'm sure our money, as well as our citizens and diplomatic presence, will be welcomed elsewhere
5. Downgrade all relations with Turkey now
Steve from Raleigh   (10.13.09)
Stop selling them the military gear they want so badly. Stop dealing with them at all. Turkey USED to be an ally, just like Iran USED to be an ally.
6. it's more related to EU politics
Simon ,   London   (10.13.09)
The EU has slammed the door in Turkey's face. Sarkozy and Merkel have said repeatedly that Turkey has no place in the EU, despite the fact that they have had a full customs union with EU since 1995. Repeated rejection by the EU has weakened the hand of the army based secular movement in Turkey. This means long term Turkey needs to find some sort of place in the middle east, ie mend their fences with their immediate neighbours. That's an unavoidable fact of being part of the region. Israel has peace with Egypt without conducting joint military excercises.
7. If the Jews in Isreal would have any self-respect
Al   (10.13.09)
they would have told the turish PM to piss off.. Seeing that the Jews in Israel are tuchus leckers I dont see that happening. Go ahead spend what little money you have travelling to turkey and feeding those anti-semites. HOW DUMB CAN YOU BE?
8. LEAVE TURKEY TO DESTRUCTION !!!.
Arn-Orao. ,   Sweden-Srbia.   (10.13.09)
BEVERE OF THE KORAN, HOWEVER, IF I UNDERSTAND THE KORAN RIGHT - CHAPTER 18., verses - 92. Then followed he (another) way, 93. Until, when he reached (a tract) between two mountains, he found, beneath them, a people who scarcely understood a word. 94. They said: "O Zul-qarnain! the Gog and Magog (People) do great mischief on earth: shall we then render thee tribute in order that thou mightest erect a barrier between us and them? 95. He said: "(The power) in which my Lord has established me is better (than tribute): Help me therefore with strength (and labour): I will erect a strong barrier between you and them: 96. "Bring me blocks of iron." At length, when he had filled up the space between the two steep mountain-sides, He said, "Blow (with your bellows)" Then, when he had made it (red) as fire, he said: "Bring me, that I may pour over it, molten lead." 97. Thus were they made powerless to scale it or to dig through it. 98. He said: "This is a mercy from my Lord: But when the promise of my Lord comes to pass, He will make it into dust; and the promise of my Lord is true." 99. On that day We shall leave them to surge like waves on one another: the trumpet will be blown, and We shall collect them all together. 100. And We shall present Hell that day for Unbelievers to see, all spread out,- TURKEY WILL ACCORDING TO A SERBIAN PROPHET, CHANGE ITS CAPITAL TO MECCA. THE TURKS IS THE PEOPLE WHO ASKS - "DU AL-KARNAIN" " THE TWO HORNED ONE", "SABA and DEDAN", IN HESEKIEL CHAPTER 38., vers- 13Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, "Art thou come to despoil us? Hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey, to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?"' SABA=YEMEN.,DEDAN=SAUDI-ARABIA., TARSHIS=EU. COMPARE NT., REVELATION CHAPTER 13., verses - 11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon. 12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him; and he causeth the earth and them that dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14And he deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast, saying to them that dwell on the earth that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword and lived. 15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause to be killed as many as would not worship the image of the beast. 16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads, 17that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark or the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom: Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred threescore and six. Arn-Orao.
9. Two can play at this game.
David S ,   New York, USA   (10.13.09)
For many years Israel has ignored a nation 25 million strong in the region that is a natural ally due to sensitivity to Turkey. That nation is Kurdistan. With Turkey showing a severe case of backsliding, there is a perfect excuse for Israel to become friendly with the Kurds.
10. alarabia
palestinian ,   Jerusalem ,Palestine   (10.13.09)
iwas watching alarabia inteviewing Raanan Gissin with another tukish spoksman .. Raanan was ranting about the strategic relationship between the 2 countries ..while the turkish man laughing ..he said ..what relation and strategies you are talking about ...your PM (olmert ) was here in turkey the day befor you started attaking Gaza ...he did not bother to say a word ..this not strategic alliance ..i don,t know if i even call it friendship .. wow .
11. To # 3
Atheist Turk ,   Germany   (10.13.09)
With this PM, Turkey will be no Trojan Horse, but a Trojan Donkey. Kindest regards
12. To # 9
Atheist Turk ,   Germany   (10.13.09)
Hello David. Forget the Kurds. They are not your ally. Erdogan' s party AKP means = Asil Kürt Partisi (asil without i, meaning The Genuine Kurdish Party). Erdogan' s party gets 30 to 50 per cent of the vote in the Turkish west, while he gets 40-60 per cent in the Kurdish east. And without the Kurdish DTP his party would get even 80 per cent. During operation Cast Lead, Kurds in the east went out to the streets to burn Israeli flags. Are these your friends or allies? Let me know! Kindest regards
13. #12 Kurds, Turkey and Israel
Anon ,   Istanbul, Turkey   (10.13.09)
Thanks for pointing out this so clearly. My Israeli friends also passionately support PKK and think that Kurds and PKK are Israel's allies. Unfortunately, most Israelis don't seem to realize PKK is terrorist and Kurds are among the most religious Muslims in Turkey. Until when they go to Kurdish mosques in Eastern Turkey and see Nasrallah and Ismail Haniya posters there. Sad thing is that angry Israelis bash Turks here, without even knowing that secular Turks don't even vote for Erdogan. In fact most secular and nationalist Turks are very much against Erdogan's policies. Erdogan's AKP is certainly the genuine Kurdish Party, his top ministers are Kurdish, most of his voters are Kurdish, and his Kurdish ministers openly express their hatred against secular system and democracy in Turkey.
14. Most genuine thanks to
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (10.13.09)
our Turkish commentators for enlightening us about Turkish leadership, Kurdish sentiment and opposition within Turkey itself. For me, it's been educational.
15. To #13 Anon
Atheist Turk ,   Germany   (10.13.09)
Thank you very much my friend. You are absolutely right with that what you have written. It was Mir Dengir Firat, who has said that the secular Republic caused a trauma among the Muslims. Really heavy words. I think your talkback completes mine perfectly. Congratulations. By the way! When I was in Israel just 3 weeks ago, I was afraid to say that I am Turkish, because of the political tension. Anyway! Greetings from Germany to lovely Istanbul.
16. To #13
Tug ,   USA   (10.13.09)
The Israelis know full well the PKK are terrorists. The PKK's terrorist activities are directly mostly toward Iran, and that is why Israel support these terrorists. All the talk about Israel being against "terrorism" is bunk. Israel is against "terrorism directed at Israel".
17. To #15
Anon ,   Istanbul, Turkey   (10.13.09)
Thank you for your post. I agree with your words. Mir Dengir Firat, Kurdish Islamist MP, is also a drug smuggler whose vehicle was caught with kilos of heroin! And, this man is a right-hand man of PM Erdogan! This Islamist threat combined with PKK mafia&terrorism are big threats for our dear country. But, we all Turks get the whole blame as unfortunately most Israelis don't seem to know what's happening inside Turkey. How are things in Germany? I've read that there was some election campaigns directed at Turkish minority and Turkish-EU relations at latest German elections. It's annoying that some people talk like they are expert of Turkish society and Turkey while they actually know nothing about Turks and Turkish politics. Greetings to Germany from a fellow dinsiz Turk ;)
18. To #16
Anon ,   Istanbul, Turkey   (10.13.09)
That's worrying, terrorism is a danger to all of us, to all countries and all people. You are right, there is an Iranian branch of PKK and it's becoming more active. This also reminds me of Europe's support to PKK and Islamist terrorism in Turkey throughout 80s and 90s. Most European countries treated these terrorists as freedom fighters and supported them. But, ironically now Europe is painfully understanding it was wrong and unethical to support terrorism whomever it was against.
19. To # 17
Atheist Turk ,   Germany   (10.13.09)
Things are OK here in Germany. There was the CDU (Merkel) position against the full EU membership of Turkey, but not a campaign. There is another guy called Sarazzin who said something about Turkish and Arab immigrants. I did not read his words, so I do not want to say, if it was racist or not. The Turkish Community in Germany as well as the Jewish Community protested against Sarazin, because they thought it was racist. He was driven out of power from the German Bank today. What do you think of Ishak Alaton´s sentence: Better to vote Erdogan than Baykal. The latter is a fascist, while Erdogan is a democrat.
20. Nobody wants to be associated with a monster
IRAN#1   (10.13.09)
Israelis need to come to their senses and stop their leaders from wipping them off the map of the world by their criminla actions. These are all wrning signs!
21. The freedom fighting PKK deserve support of chosen people
Genuine Tosefta ,   Tveria   (10.13.09)
Kurds like Jews 60 years ago do not have an independent country of their own. This is why PKK are freedom fighters
22. Iran #1
X'   (10.13.09)
Look at the teapot calling the kettle black ! In truth the real monsters are the terrorist criminal genocidal Islamonazi government in Iran that you seem to whorship. If your delusional heros are stupid enough to try to whip Israel off the map they may get what they wish for-for themselves. You seem to forget that Israel has only been defending themselves against the Terrorist surrogates of the criminal regime in Tehran. You also seem to forget that Israel has a substantial nuclear arsenal and Jericho III missles to deliver them. If I were you, I'd be begging to make peace with Israel. The alternative is practicing kissing your country and your ass goodbye
23. #19
Anon ,   Istanbul, Turkey   (10.13.09)
Well, I don't agree with Alaton on this, in fact most Jews of Turkey don't agree with Alaton's affair with AKP and Erdogan. Alaton never speaks about Erdogan's and AKP's anti-semitism and anti-secularism. What Erdogan does in Turkey is acting as a democrat while being a plain fascist at heart. Meanwhile, many other groups such as ultra-religious groups, PKK supporters etc. all bring their forces together in portraying CHP and Baykal as fascist so that they can strengthen Erdogan's position. CHP's Kurdish report, its embracing position on minorities and its emphasis on secularism are promising and they answer Turkey's needs. CHP seems to got rid of some of Ismet Inonu's wrong policies/influence and I find this as a positive step. I think since the last days of Ataturk, Inonu influenced CHP with his narsistic and oppressive policies. So, it's a good sign that CHP seems to be refreshing itself with true democratic values with younger generations. However, Erdogan only plays for tribunes, he is in fact a plain anti-semitic, anti-secularist and corrupt. I can never trust him. He uses democracy as a tool, not as an aim as he himself said it. Istanbul'dan selamlar...
24. #20 Iran ruled by the evil Joker
Cynthia ,   USA   (10.14.09)
Pity so many people have to suffer because of this evil Ahmadinejad. Can't blame Iranians for wanting to leave. Iran is decaying from the inside out.
25. Who is the real leader
Isaac Hager ,   Harlem NY   (10.18.09)
Only Rabbi Shmuel Izik Popack, the New lubavitcher Meshiach can help Israel.
26. Turkey & Israel
Meast ,   Ankara, Turkey   (10.27.09)
Simple Rule: Be careful when listening to fascist elites of Turkey. We call them White Turks! They will try to be accepted by the Christians and Jews well transformed cuties. In reality it is only their daily lives which resembles any western ideas. And they are only 5 % of the Turkish population (they have managed to secure votes of Alevi population for almost half a century with the help of fear and that makes another 15 %. But the so called Islamist government is also started talks with the Alevi population to end the problems they are facing so this portion is also on stake) AKP is not a Kurdish party. As this whitey claims. In 2007 the winning party in 80 provinces was AKP. Only 1 province that the White Turks gained the lead. The total share of AKP all over Turkey was 47 %. That happens once in 30 years time in Turkey. As a reminder the last islamist party had only managed to gain 20 % of the votes as an all time best. The main core of voters to AKP is not the Islamists but the center right and liberals. Coming to the relations with Israel. As Turkey we are at the edge of finalizing the Cold War era where relations between countries was based on military pacts and the reign of Intelligence Agency created havok across the planet. It took us almost 20 years to settle a more peaceful country inside and let the word of majority to be spoken loud. But I think the state of Israel is still using the codes of Cold War. Turkey is closing its problems with her neighbors one by one including the never ending problem with little Armenia. It is trying to end the inner problems with Alevis and the Kurds and trying to regain them as citizens. And it seems to be working. This new policy is called the Zero Problem with Neighbors. As a long term ally with Israel and a person who strongly believes the freedom of choice and a person calling from a country who is descendant from an Empire known to be tolerant to differences, I suggest the same to Israel. Security is not the no. 1 issue in this new age. Titling it as the 1st is making the security lack more. It is the good will and careful peace steps that will create a better Middle East. Bye
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