Jewish Scene
Jerusalem 'chastity squad' branching out
Ari Galahar
Published: 22.10.09, 08:44
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31. Robert , comparing a modern woman to criminals ?
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (10.23.09)
Those squads are not fighting crime , but people living in the 21st century . They are fighting everything not obeying their rules . Will they go and fight the criminals [ the true ones ] in south Tel Aviv ? No of course , they are only attacking defenseless women . The liberal societies have their faults , but they let people live their life . There are places where prostitution is allowed in some strrets , police has it unther control there . Do you think that charidim don't go to prostitutes ? That there are no drug addicts amongst them ? Regarding their "morals" , not better as those of seculars . And when they commit a crime , they are twice as much criminals . First against the State laws , and then against the Torah laws .
32. Morality Squads
philip ,   Afula,Israel   (10.23.09)
To Ellen at 27, Put your heart at rest,we know full well that its only the NUTTERS from the fringes of your society that are causing the troubles. However it is to be expected that the wise men of your community try and stop this cowardly and disrectful behaviour from your youngsters. Indeed unlawful behaviour.The Rabbanim say nothing ????/?????? To you personally ,Shabbat Shalom/.
33. 29&30 Conundrum: Law vs Vigilantism
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (10.23.09)
I concur with the need to maintain Torah standards. Communities should have a right to maintain standards that reflect their values. Khareidim are no exception. However, there is a legal way and an illegal way. Vigilantism ALWAYS results in the extra-legal enforcement, by one element which has the power to impose itself on all of the others, of its own narrow views, causing the concurrent loss of rights by all of the subservient groups. There is no consensus in the (Orthodox) Torah community that these Khareidim represent any consensus of the overall Orthodox community. Exactly the opposite. They are NOT representative of the overall Orthodox community and most Orthodox are appalled and embarrassed by such behavior that is Khilul ha-Sheim. Thus, vigilantes are wrongfully--criminally--imposing their narrow INTERPRETATIONS on other parts of the community--Orthodox as well as non-Orthodox and non-Jews. Unless there is a Beit Din authorizing such extra-legal "police"--and none claim credit--supporting vigilantism "after their own eyes" contradicts Torah... while their narrow view of immodesty, their narrow INTERPRETATION, is NOT a clear violation of Torah. I support an internal revolution that vomits out rabbinic fictions, corruption and contra-historical redactions to restore Torah and the ancient Oral Law as Mosheh knew it at Har Sinai--and the Teimanim live it most pristinely today. But that must be achieved through intelligent debate, demonstrating truth and exposing deceivers and slanderers... winning hearts. You don't win hearts by breaking skulls, clinging to lies or killing dhimmis. The intelligent course is to apply pressure not to skulls like ignorant and uncivilized savages but to the municipal government that directs the police. Protest. Insist. Make your point there. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer (& Orthodox Jew) Advocate for Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming All Torah-reverers (Jewish & Goyim)
34. Dorothy , 11
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (10.23.09)
Do you think that those women in their areas have something to say ? That they can oppose it ?
35. 33 , "exposing deceivers"
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (10.23.09)
That's what i'm doing , Mr van .....Which TRUE Rabbinical authority has confirmed your "conversion" ?
36. The sex commando in action.
Lobo   (10.23.09)
The Almighty has unleashed His holy warriors on a ruthless enemy; a woman. sadly, their training is somewhat left to be desired, five against one?-- They should be aware also that running away as they did, is a deadly offense in the Sex business. I think they should join their brothers in arms in Saudi Arabia, in Gaza, the Taliban, Iraq, the Nasrallah gang, and get some real education. By now, the world knows them by the diversity of their "Patrol";the preservation of customs Patrol, the chastity Patrol, the modesty Patrol, the chador Patrol, the no holding hands Patrol, and more are popping out everyday. Madison Avenue, take note ..!To the list, I should add" the guardians of the vanishing species Patrol" --- la femme fatale --, a lost art. Bits of history on the subject : I got this 2nd hand of course. 90% of the French soldiers picked for Mata Hari's firing squad (a wwi stunning spy), aimed elsewhere in order to preserve this exquisite creature (god's creation) for the heavens... Now, this is what I call French gallantry, a lost art....! Unknown in the islamic world.
37. I am only speaking of serious
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (10.23.09)
community problems caused by younger adults (not about women and socalled "moral defectiveness")and perceiving a certain segment of the Charedi community protecting the whole community much like we have Guardian Angels in North America, an actual organization which is set up to protect communities from crime. Let's remember that the Ynet article highlights the vigilantism aspect of the Charedim and views their activities in a negative way only. We Readers were fortunate to be given an alternate view, based on "Observer's" evidence of what may be the actual situation. If "Observer" is right, I applaud the Charedim for attempting to "clean up" what the police are unable to do. And Readers, ask yourselves, if you resided and owned a family home in a community which was also suffering from insidious social deterioration, wouldn't you be the least bit grateful for an identified group, even a vigilante group, which served the community's needs by ridding the community of "undesirables" or by significantly changing undesirable behaviour or would you prefer anarchy, mayhem and unbridled freedoms? No democracy survives, incidentally, without rules, limitations and social constraints.
38. #37 wrong wrong wrong
Israeli grandmother   (10.23.09)
Robert Hammond, forcing your extreme interpretations on your fellow citizens, especially defencless women is a crime in all civilised societies. Its also psychotic behavior by the way. If Israeli police are not involved its often due to their lack of man/womenpower. We all know this is a problem, especially in Jerusalem. Will you be satisfied when some victim is severely crippled or dies from this pathological hooliganism masquerading as religious purity? Torat Moshe does not require vigilante groups to monitor adult behavior. We have have the power to choose our lifestyle, and the Torah gives us the direction we should take.
39. Orthodox docs available on our website 10 years
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (10.23.09)
I'm a member in good standing of Orthodox synagogue, Moreshet Avot, in Ra'anana more than 10 years. My nameplate is on my seat there, and has been for more than 10 years. Charles the atheist Edomit goy is a reckless, irresponsible liar and slanderer who, like Mike the Christian, slanders and then expects the victim to be considered guilty unless he proves his innocence. Reprehensible!
40. You did'nt answer , mr van ....
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (10.23.09)
Regarding who's a goy , coming from you ..... Can you show a certificate of an ultra Orthodox Rabbinate , proving that you are Jewish ? I can , and from a Rabbanut that knew me . Is your nameplate on a seat your proof you're Jewish ? I prefer a certificate , the same as i have . But this you apparently can't show . If you had such a certificate , i'm sure it would appear on your site .
41. #38 - you clearly have no knowledge of the area ot its probl
observer   (10.23.09)
If you've bothered to read #6 and #29 you will see that this trash is behind much of the rioting that took place this summer, for example. As a matter of fact certain very large haredi groups living in the area or bordering on it are working closely with the police to clean this scum up. Till now the police have been afraid to enter the poorly-lit, narrow winding streets for legitimate fear of ambush. In other respects, some people suspect foreign currency was responsible. At all events, these louts present a tangible danger for the young people of the area. You may recall the phrase that the exasperated english used abut Americans serving in the UK during the war: over-fed, over-sexed, over here. It applies in ISrael as well.
42. Grandmother
Philip ,   Afula,Israel   (10.23.09)
To number 38, A grand answer from a grandmother much appreciated by a secular grandfather. Shabbat Shalom dear gracious lady.
43. Send them to Iran
Truthseeker ,   USA   (10.24.09)
These religious crazies would fit in quite well with the ayatollahs in Iran. Just pack them up and send them there.
44. Nothing wrong with speaking out against SIN....
Roy Galut ,   Selah   (10.24.09)
But taking Law into ones own hand and meting out punishment is wrong .... period
45. To Dav Zee from Atlanta
Joan ,   Haifa   (10.24.09)
Oh, come on. You're saying that American Jews aren't making aliya because of *this* (and only this?)???? This is one neighborhood (Mea Shearim in Jerusalem) and now a second neighborhood seems to be going in the same direction. Ar you going to tell me that there aren't one or two neighborhoods in the United States where YOU wouldn't want to live? Of course, the actions of these fortunately few people are terrible and anti-democratic.
46. Jerusalem 'chastity squad'
VET52 ,   USA   (10.25.09)
COWARDS are all they are.
47. They are going to get their butts kicked
Mike ,   USA   (10.25.09)
Attacking a group of US college students wasn't a good idea. These religious guys are usually not very good fighters and somebody ought to give them some physical education, if you know what I mean. And the first time they do this to a non-Jew in Israel, they will be guilty of bringing hate upon Jews, which makes them just as bad as the Jew-hater.
48. Butts Kicked
FRANK   (10.26.09)
Mike - You ought to get yours kicked in - for your stupid suggestion.
49. #34
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (10.26.09)
Sorry, I really don't care, I look after my own first. These women are basically as fundamentalist as the men when it comes to issues involving secular Jews.
50. "Chastity Squad" = Jewish Taliban !
Alon ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (10.26.09)
51. Dorothy , 49
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (10.26.09)
You look after your own first [ a little bit egoist ? ] Don't forget that in their midst they have'nt much to say , that they almost can't free themselve from this society . I more pity them .
52. #47
observer   (10.26.09)
These guys are not college students; they are dropouts, sent away from home because their parents can't deal with them or are ashamed of them. There are about 4,000 serious students in that area, but the few hundred dropouts are not on the 'college's' (ie yeshiva) books.
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