Sad peace anniversary
Eitan Haber
Published: 22.10.09, 11:08
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1. sad peace
marcel   (10.22.09)
Oh, this ongoing tragedy and worship of oslo by haber is a bit much. Israel made concessions, Rabin tried for peace with jordan which is a scared rabbit and egypt. Rabin would have eventually woken up and seen that oslo was leading to death and disaster. Haber like olmert loves olso. He was a jornalist not a fighter in israels wars. So that is his perspective. Good for him. Like turkey, there are limits to what israel can have-its called cold peace. Arabs to their point of view do not want israel and haber there no matter how much haber thinks otherwise.
2. Peace with Jordan is great
Ilan ,   Ariel   (10.22.09)
We don't fight them, they don't fight us. We each stay on our own side of the border. Good fences make good neighbors, but they don't particularly like us. So they don't want to be our friends. Life is just fine without that.
3. Comment
Mohammad ,   Jordan   (10.22.09)
If we are talking about governments on both sides of the river, the peace treaty has not changed anything as there has been no real war between Jordan and Israel. Actually the cooperation between both sides especially the exchange of intelligence info has never stopped since the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948. However, if we are talking about people, its a totally different issue. I should admit that we had a lot of optimism in Jordan after signing the peace treaty with Israel. Everyone was talking aboout the benefits of peace and the bright future waiting for us. What really changed is the leadership on both sides. King hussien passed away, and the era of the great Israeli leaders such as Rabin has gone, and replaced by a group of extremists such as Bibi and lieberman. On the other hand, the Palestinians used to have a better leadership than the current one. Arafat with all his problems was a strong leader and was able to unify the palestinians. Nowadays palestinians are divided which is a big obstacle to make peace which affected the relationship between Israel and Jordan. Finally, 9/11 attacks has changed the whole world in my opnion, and it widened the rift and the mistrust between muslims and non muslims in general.
4. to #3 lil miss guided this is the second
ghostq   (10.22.09)
Bibi term he was already been prim minister, and the 9/11 wasn't the only mega sucide bombing, you forget the countless in the 90's in Israel by palis terror orgs and in 2005 the underground train in London, I think the Muslim terrorist reputation the Muslims made for themselves. if it was only 9/11 you ignor very serious horible reality witch only you the Muslim can stop, last week first sucide bombing in Italy as well. if you really want to improve the relation ship with other countries you need to end that phenomena.
6. To #4
Mohammad ,   Jordan   (10.22.09)
First of all i am not a muslim, so someone like you who is obviously brain washed (a sheep in the herd) will never understand. When i mentioned Bibi and Leiberman i was talking about the current Israeli government (the here and now) and i am well aware that this is his second term, he lost the first one in an early election against your current defense minister. If you are so shallow and lack the political knowledge to understand the difference between 9/11 and other terrorist attacks then there is no point in explaining it to you, and if your memory or knowledge is limited to the 90s then you have no idea that terrorism is a much older phenomena. Just try to read how the english media used to describe the jewish attacks against the english army pre 1948. One last advice, dont make a joke of yourself and talk about something unless you know what you are talking about.
7. Jordan.
Ron B. ,   Lod   (10.22.09)
Jordan was born of fraud, which it's fated thereafter to prop up via unremitting retroactive repairs to the past — even the distant past. Not too many years back Jordan TV aired a documentary on Jerusalem portraying ancient Jebusites as Arabs. Jordan's population is overwhelmingly Palestinian. The only exceptions are the Beduin who accompanied Abdullah I from Hejaz. Like the Hashemites, they're foreigners. Now these outsiders design to delegitimize the natives. Expectedly, governments and human rights NGOs worldwide are silent. More at : http://tinyurl.com/65flo4
8. to #6 funny but you r called after muslim prophet.
ghostq   (10.22.09)
so what changed between the 2 terms, does Bibi became a new man? y only now you call him racist and not way back than, hint it wasn't Bibi who delaired cast lead. and a sucide bombing is a sucide bombing, can you tell the victims families your relative died in much smaller atteck sorry your pain is not relevant, it doesn't matter if it's big or small innocent lives do their everyday activity get killed because they r on the bus train office or going to a shoping mall is all the same. calling me a joke wont change history there was only one incident in the king david hotel when jews killed British officials and it wasn't a sucide bombing, my dear, you read too much propeganda. pluse there were Israeli jewish unit since WW2 in the British Army. here http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3791860,00.html check it out jews in British uniforms. as I said you read too much propeganda
9. Well-stated...
Rafi ,   US   (10.22.09)
A good & sad commentary about what could have been... History will show that no leader of Israel since Y. Rabin z"l has been as well suited and as balanced to navigate Israel thru the challenges of peace-making with its neighbors. As Mr Haber correctly points outs, the contrast of Israel's international standing under the Rabin years vs. now is that between day & night. Since Rabin, Israel has had only pygmies and hacks as leaders. The people of Israel still do not fully appreciate how well served they were in war and peace by the dedication of Yitzhak Rabin. However history will put all into correct balance...
10. 3 Cheers for peace with Jordan!
JPS ,   Efrat   (10.22.09)
I love it! The alternative, as we all know, sucks bigtime. No, we haven't done as good a job as we could have. No, Jordan is not the shining example to the Arab world that it could be (or could have been). No, Jordanians still haven't fully accepted us given the constant news reports of radical morons who prefer a state of war. Yes, peace is GREAT! Peace with Egypt is GREAT! The alternative is more death and destruction. No thank you. No way. Let's work on strengthening our ties with our neighbors to the east and west. It will only do us (and them) good.
11. Chairman Mao, Stalin, Rabin , sigh....
Ilan ,   Ariel   (10.22.09)
It's mid October and the Israeli version of Halloween is rapidly approaching. All hail the great pumpkins.
12. #3 - Mohammed, Call them extremists if you want...
Joe ,   Ramat Gan   (10.22.09)
... but it's the Leftist government of Barak, Olmert and Livni that was responsible for the wars in Lebanon and Gaza this decade. As a Jew, I'd rather have 'extremists' in power who don't overreact to provocation than Leftists who talk the talk of peace but walk the walk of war. Wouldn't any sane Arab think the same? Besides, what's so 'extreme' about Lieberman's views? He's a strong supporter of the 2-state solution and he wants to deviate from the 1967 borders by exchanging Wadi Ara for settlements in Samaria so nobody will have to be kicked out of their homes as part of a 2-state deal. In any other part of the world, this would be considered forward and visionary, but I'm not surprised that such sane thinking counts as 'extremism' here in the Middle East.
13. #12
Mohammad ,   Jordan   (10.22.09)
I am not sure if you are seriouse or just kidding when you talk about Leiberman. Lieberman called for bombing the High Dam and flooding Egypt. Lieberman has called to redraw the border between Israel and the West Bank so that Israel would include large Jewish settlement blocs and the Palestinian state would include large Arab-Israeli population centers. He believes that Israel's citizens should sign a loyalty oath or lose their right to vote! This is what racism is all about, to divide people upon their races and question their loyality (his version of loyality). To be quite honest with you, i am surprised how Israel could appoint him as a foreign minister and i believe that he will do a lot of damage to Israel's image. All the major wars happened when Israel had the rightest in control, 1948, 1967, 1973, and 1982. Unfortunalty, the real leftist party who is genuinly interested in peace "Meretz" has never given the chance to govern, otherwise we would not have all these wars in the first place.
14. Correction
Mohammad ,   Jordan   (10.22.09)
In 1967 the prime minister was Levi Ashkol who was a member of Mapai (left wing party)
15. We have peace and nothing else
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (10.22.09)
The Arabs do not want our friendship, that's okay - their loss. They need to take ALL their citizens - that includes all the non-Israelis in Judea and Samaria.
16. #13 & 14 - Mohammad, Not only will you find that...
Joe ,   Ramat Gan   (10.23.09)
... settlements in territories won in the 1967 war were initially encouraged by the Israeli Left, but that when the policies of Meretz get put into action, everybody suffers. We pulled out of Lebanon and Gaza at the insistence of Meretz and Jews and Arabs got war in both instances. You'll also notice that in all those years, we weren't the ones amassing troops on the borders and planning mass plunder and genocide. If you look at the history of the Middle East in recent years, it's easy to see that what keeps Jews safe keeps Arabs REALLY safe. Hamas and the PLO in power? Bad for Jews but for worse for Arabs. Intifadas? Bad for Jews but worse for Arabs. Settlements? Bad for Jews, worse for Arabs. The separation barrier? Good for Jews but better for Arabs (it provides a de-facto barrier between Israel and the West Bank, even if it separates people from acreage they claim to own (most Arab deeds are fake because almost all land was owned by the Khalifa prior to the arrival of the British)). PS- Arab is not a 'race' and Lieberman has many Druze supporters. Lieberman doesn't care what peoples' ethnic backgrounds are, all he cares about is their loyalty to the state. And yes, if you continually riot, wave the flag of your sworn enemy, burn the flag of your host country, and refuse to fight in the army and be a productive member of society, your loyalty is questionable and your behavior is treasonous. No other civilized nation on earth would put up with this nonsense from a minority- not even the liberal democracies of Western Europe. Criticism of Lieberman reveals much more about the person giving the criticism than it says about Lieberman himself. Get ready for more Liebermans to come...
17. Letter to a leftwing defeatist
Dan Schwartz ,   Boston, USA   (10.23.09)
Dear Myron (the avowed leftist defeatist): Please don't take this personally but if you support giving up land to the Arab terror regimes who any idiot can determine will never want "peace' with us then I must sadly conclude that: a) You are not an Orthodox Jew at heart (although you might think so). b) You are not "Leshem Shamayim" to use your expression. You might ask me why I use such harsh words. After the fraudulent so called "peace process" of Rabin and Arafat the clear results were NO PEACE (land for NO Peace) more terror an intifada which caused over 2,000 dead Jewish men women babies etc and a withdrawal from Gaza which resulted in thousands of rockets been launched from Gaza and the Lebanon war. Any Jew who still supports such an insane appeasement process of self hate AFTER THE CLEAR EVIDENCE TO DATE (as mentioned above) has got to be either insane blind to reality or if none of the above then a self hating Jew. Furthermore you cannot possibly define yourself as an "Orthodox Jew" and support such a process because of the following reasons: a)- The Ramban in his Sefer Hamitzvot states that it is forbidden to give away parts of Eretz Israel to the gentiles even if they offer peace and even if We liberate this land before the Messiah comes. I assume that as a self defined "Orthodox" Jew you are aware of the fact the Ramban was one of the Rishonim and anyone who defines oneself as an Orthodox Jew listens to a Rishon's opinion (not to Myron's opinion). B)- Orthodox Jews believe that it is Halacha Esav Soneh Et Yacov . (an axiom in all generations as proven by history that the goyim will always try to destroy us). Therefore thinking that you will get peace by yielding land to the Arab terror regimes is against Halacha. In fact it is against common sense (did Chamberlain get peace from Hitler by giving him land at the perfidious Munich Agreement in 1938? Did anyone in history achieve peace by caving in to undemocratic murderous terrorist regimes. In fact have the Jews ever had "peace" in our entire 3000 year history with the Goyim? My friends and relatives also live in Israel and would also love to see peace but unlike you they know that there will never be peace with the murderous Arabs and their Anti-Semitic undemocratic terror regimes . So please Myron don't use the hackney cliché "I live in Israel and I want peace for my children " argument because the VAST majority of other Jews now living in Israel disagree with you AS PROVEN BY THE RECENT ELECTION WHERE THE RIGHT WING PARTIES WON BY A LANDSLIDE WITH OVER 75% OF THE JEWISH VOTE. Myron you are typical example of the type of person that Santayana wrote about when he said: "Those who do not learn from their historical mistakes are destined to repeat them" Myron you and your self hating ilk who lack all national pride and self respect have learned nothing from the Holocaust etc ( that the Goyim will always hate us and will hate us even more if we show weakness and cave in). It seems that you are so riddled with blindness and self hate that I wonder if I can ever reach you but I shall publish this response in the hope that others will not be ensnared by the Pro-Arab defeatism which you espouse and the acceptance of the deviant so called "Jewish" cults which you so stanchly defend. No my friend Myron there can be no unity between those who believe in Jewish pride and self respect and those that are left wing defeatists and self haters such as yourself. We live in 2 different camps which are on a collision course and I believe that truth and justice will win out against defeatism and self hate. Thank you Dan Schwartz Please see our blog( Click below): WWW.AMERICANJEWSAGAINSTOBAMA.BLOGSPOT.COM Please forward this email to all of your friends and neighbors
18. I agree with Mohammad in #3...
Rafi ,   US   (10.23.09)
...true leaders, as warriors, peacemakers and statesmen, were Y. Rabin of Israel and King Hussein of Jordan. They had seen warfare and truly wanted peace and prosperity for their peoples. (much less certain about Arafat...) Who can forget King Hussein's statemanship in visiting a bereaved Israeli family in Beit Shemesh following an incident in the Jordan valley that took two Israeli soldiers lives. Or his sincere appeals from his sick bed to PM Netanyahu in the name of peace & good relations to not construct the Har Homah development in Jerusalem. The result? In the case of the narrow-minded Netanyahu - nothing. None of this shameful, ignorant behavior would have occurred with Yitzhak Rabin, z"l.
19. Mohammad, I saw your news in English
Post Liberal ,   Israel   (10.23.09)
They were funny, but not as Syrian news in Hebrew. You are spoon fed lies about Israel and IDF. You live in a kingdom for God's sake, and your previous king murdered much more Palestinians than "Gaza Holocaust". Meretz has some hardcore followers but they're not trusted by the majority of the electorate. They want to make more peace treaties with countries like Jordan that have laws for labeling Israeli production so it can be boycotted. Is this your idea of peace? And how about Egypt's Husni and his declaration of cultural war? This is peace?
20. to #16
Mohammad ,   Jordan   (10.23.09)
I am not sure if you are interested in the truth or not. Both rightest and leftest in Israel work to serve their country and to defend its interests, the main difference between them is the way they do that. The Israeli left wants to make peace and we should not deny that, when Ehud Barak became a prime minister of Israel we were too close to make peace, but Arafat acted stupid at that time. And i believe that if Rabin was not assassinated (by a rightest!) we would have lived in peace already. On the other hand, the Israeli right and Orthodox jews are opposing peace, and they are so clear about that. I dont care if you consider Arabs as a race or not, but to consider Jews as a race is the problem. Dividing people to Jews and gentiles is racism in my opinion (hence all Israel's problems start from here) You said "And yes, if you continually riot, wave the flag of your sworn enemy, burn the flag of your host country, and refuse to fight in the army and be a productive member of society, your loyalty is questionable and your behavior is treasonous". Would you consider a palestinian who live in Gaza but protests against Hamas and burn its flag a traitor to his country? Do you truely understand what freedom of speech is? Who gave you or Mr Leiberman the right to divide people to loyals and traitors? By the way, i am considered a traitor by many Arabs simply because i refuse to follow the flock and admit that both sides are making mistake and equally responsible for the shi**y situation we are living in right now. Finally, i totally agree with you that what is good for Jews is good for Arabs and vice versa. We have too many similarities and very few differences but we chose to look at the differences and ignore all the similarties. Hope one day we start to identify ourselves as humans, then all our problem will come to an end.
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