"On the other hand, you can see that a majority of Israeli society does not give credence to the religious character of Shabbat," added Geal-Dor. Not true - 65% of respondents said they would NOT like to see malls open on Shabbat. That to me is a strong majority

if he intentionally transgresses the laws of Shabbat and was warned and there were witnesses. So in the first survey and must be adhered by ALL JEWS. For the second survey which law to cancel? Answer: To say Hallel on Yom Haatzmaut.

good luck enforcing that one in this society.

If we're to arrive at an equitable balance, lawmakers, community leaders and citizens must learn and appreciate the enormous complexities of this issue. We're still seeking a solution that has eluded the best thinkers from antiquity. This is a conundrum that has been debated in Israel even before the time of the Beit ha-Miqdash and Beit Din ha-Gadol. Yirmeyahu the Prophet described a future B'rit Khadashah in which the Torah (which, for the edification of Christians, from the time of Mosheh, has always included Oral Law) would be written on the heart (31.31-33) by the Mashiakh, later emphasized by Ribi Yehoshua, in contrast to solely externally imposed by law written in stone. Of course, being law doesn't imply that it isn't in the heart. The two are not mutually exclusive. The only way that Torah (Judaism) succeeds is when it comes from the heart. Winning the heart is a matter of idealism, civil debate and intelligent discourse--preferably in the home, tailored to age and ability, from the cradle. On the other hand, without law there is anarchy and chaos. Yet, law implies the conflict between compatibility with Torah or a person's free will, bestowed irreversibly by ha-Sheim, to reject it--bein qodesh le-khol. I think too many on both sides of this divide think of law only in terms of furthering their own agenda, lacking adequate concern for the right of the other to live their life according to their own free will within limits. Ahhh, the scorpion in the tent: limits. What limits? I would encourage both sides to think in terms of accommodation that ensures their own agenda doesn't extend to imposing their agenda on those of the other side. One's right to swing their arm stops short of the personal space surrounding another's nose. Further, the issues polled define the character and identity of Israel as both a people and a nation. There are Israelis who will never accept a nation or people whose identity is incompatible with Torah. There are also Israelis who will never accept a nation or people whose identity is independent of Torah. Perhaps that makes the conundrum clearer. However, there are numerous nations in which the latter can make their home. There is only one place the former can make their home. It is as clear as it is inexorable and dismaying to some that, no matter the number or stridency of denial, the Torah people have no other place (Torah-rejecters, despite their slogan, have many). Therefore, Israel must be compatible with Torah. It then seems prudent that: a) the definition of Torah & Halakhah must be as inclusive and accommodating as Hileil would have permitted (contrary to many current rabbinic mindsets), b) those who reject Torah would then be left to either accommodate the indigenous Torah people and nation or be free to go live in any of the numerous Torah-rejecting nations that already exist. Any other alternative--expecting Orthodox to abandon Torah or Torah-rejecters refusing to accommodate Hileil-like Torah--means unending division, weakness and internal conflict. I hope Hileil-like Torah becomes viable for both sides. Foolish generalizations are barriers that mislead should be avoided. (Geal-Dor states that "even" the Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox who oppose opening malls on Shabbat only "do so out of societal considerations"--a conspicuously misstatement). Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer (& Orthodox Jew) Advocate for Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming All Torah-reverers (Jewish & Goyim) www.netzarim.co.il

"There are Israelis who will never accept a nation or people whose identity is incompatible with Torah. There are also Israelis who will never accept a nation or people whose identity is independent of Torah." should have read: "There are Israelis who will never accept a nation or people whose identity is incompatible with Torah. There are also Israelis who will never accept a nation or people whose identity is compatible with Torah." Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer (& Orthodox Jew) Advocate for Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming All Torah-reverers (Jewish & Goyim) www.netzarim.co.il

some time ago you wrote that you can't volunteer as a "traffic security adviser" because you need to work for your livelihood . Now you have much time writing your "religious" b,,,s.... And you want us to take you seriously ?

what he can't accomplish in discussion, he'll try to accomplish in court: silencing those who don't see it his way. (see talkbacks in the jewish section on ynet if you don't believe me)

all Jews must follow this ? Let me say that as long i can do it , i'll drive on Shabbat , will take a taxi , will drink a coffee in my prefered place in my Tel Aviv . Wich law to cancel ? forbidding shops to open Shabbat , ElAl to fly , and other such coercisions on seculars .

No - we should expunge all the religious laws. Any law, in order to be considered good, must be justified through secular reasoning. Universal, secular, mandatory education throughout Israel would be a nice law to add - charedim, hilonim, and arab residents should all rub shoulders and learn the same thing. Let their religious learning, if they desire any, happen on some other day of the week.

I'm a Christain person and if I was to visit Israel I would follow the laws of Israel. If I lived there I would support what #4 says even though I am Christain. It is good for Israel in my opinion. America years back was a little like that but long gone and you see what we have now?

believer in yeshu .

Hillel's call to not offend ones neighbour is absolutely basic to our religion and our behavour in causing offense should be punishable by law for certain situations. Although it is not so obvious, the greatest offences are due to the lack of equality of opportunity given to each of us to receive a proper education and then to be able to earn a satisfactory living. The first is clear, free and uniform education standards, but the second can only come ito being when the land values (currently being used for speculation purposes instead of employment) are taxed instead of incomes. TAX TAKINGS NOT MAKINGS!

Ashkenazy, Sefardi, Black, White, Religious, seculer and Gay

Religion, like patriotism, is too often the last refuge of scoundrels. Using the power of the state to enforce religious edicts is unconscionable. Are you going to decide who is Jewish enough to live in Israel? With criminal penalties for those who do not accept your version of 'religous' law. Should you kill those who don't agree? Expel them? To paraphrase Orwell, do you decide that ...'all Jews are created equal but some are more equal than others ? When people come to terms with the contradictions within their collective philosphy, they often retreat into the idea that religion, rather than reason, will somehow protect them from the outside world. It is the philosophy that, in Islam, has lead to the Taliban. Interesting that such a retreat from reason has infected Israelis who have wanted to believe that they were somehow exempt from th real world if only they all collectively believed and wrote such beliefs into law.

all laws based on religion arre out dated they have no use in the 21st century

The death penalty is not allowed under Torah law when there is no Temple. This is directly implied in the text of the Torah. So if Israel created the death penalty it would would be against Jewish law. The only ones putting Jews in prison in Israel are secular Jews (which is a monetary, physical, and social punishment). Thus I have no idea how a person can be against religious coercision, but for the secular coercive system we have in Israel.

the I.D.F. for any reason outside of health means a long prison sentence for males or females. Yes, even getting married at 17, pregnant or having a baby should not stop one from serving. National service should not count.