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Report: Palestinian moderately hurt in Naalin
Ynet reporters
Published: 04.12.09, 15:26
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1. In Israel and Iran...
Apa ,   NYC   (12.04.09)
In Israel as well as Iran live ammunition is seen as a crowd-dispersal technique. Tell me - is this used on stone-throwing Haredis as well?
2. Settler kids throwing stones
Apa ,   NYC   (12.04.09)
Here is a video of settler kids throwing stones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EUUrE8Lm14&feature=related Should he also be "dispersed" with a ruger rifle?
3. To: No. 1
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.04.09)
You pays your money, you takes your chances. These so-called "peaceful" demonstrations always turn into violent riots. Israeli troops do not disperse peaceful demonstrations. They do disperse violent riots. I think it works that way in the United States, too. In fact, I'm sure of it. So what's your problem? By the way, as a point of information, since you seem not to know, .22 rounds fired from a Ruger rifle causes far less damage and is nowhere near as harmful as a rubber bullet. Moreover, you can safely discount the account provided by a self-hating Jew. A REAL Jew would be there in support of the soldiers attempting to disperse the violent, rioting Arabs.
4. Who Cares?
A Nice Fellow ,   Montreal   (12.04.09)
Not anyone with half a brain.
5. how come you dont report about the firebombs they throw
YNET=LEFT wing ,   garbage news   (12.04.09)
at police?
6. When playing with fire with the full intention of breaking
Anat ,   Haderah   (12.04.09)
the law, be prepared to get hurt. Jews, you know, also have the right to live, something that you, people, have attempted to prevent for too long.
7. I for one have no sympathy towards these law-breakers.
James Dunn ,   Dublin, Ireland   (12.04.09)
Their interest after all is not only to deal with the tactical Security Fence whose use has been approved by the highest court in the land. Their true goal is the elimination of the Jewish state of Israel, step by step, from the river to the sea. Either way, I have no sympathy towards them, none what so ever.
8. ITS OKAY TO GET HURT FOR YOUR LAND
Tomorrow   (12.04.09)
but we must be wise all lives are important. we got to keep our health better wise actions are a need to bring the peace earlier I LIKE NO PEOPLE SLEEP I LIKE ALL PEOPLE FIGHT FOR ITS RIGHTS I LIKE ALL PEOPLE GET WHAT THEY WANT WITH TRUE WORKINGS. I mean we got to calculate our wishes good. if it will help, than take a risk if not just wait. I NEVER WALK ON STREETS AND PROTEST. ITS NOT MY CHARACTER. BUT ! IF MY NEXT DOOR TOOK MY RIGHTS I WOULD ALSO STAY AT BORDER UNTIL DO SOMETHINGS. I dont blame the people. but calculation is important. Atilla Karagözoğlu
9. To: Apa
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.04.09)
Your analogies are completely inapposite. I assure you that the Jews who throw stones are members Israel's ultra-Orthodox lunatic fringe, and scarcely represent Jews, Israelis or the vast majority of Israelis living in Judea and Samaria So you like videos, do you? I can post videos of the aftermath of Palestinian suicide bombings that would cause sleepless nights in most normal people (no assumption about you, of course, as you have made it abundantly plain where your political sympathies lie and to whom your vitriolic hatred is directed). Face it -- you are just a rabid Jew and Israel-hater. How else can one explain your apologist attitude for Palestinians who are the victims of their own choices? I own the choices I make -- I take responsibility for them, no matter what the outcome. I believe that is the operative principle throughout the world. The Palestinians need to take responsibility for the choices they have made. They do not -- and that is the crux of the problem.
10. Apa, because they are not Arab.
Noor ,   Palestine   (12.04.09)
Israel has different rules for Arabs and Jews.
11. Sarah,
Noor ,   Palestine   (12.04.09)
please explain to us talk backers when you last attended any of these rallies. I mean, the only people who really know whether the Arabs were "rioting" or "behaving violently" are the ones who were actually there protesting. You would be the last one protesting for the human rights of Palestinians, so how would you know? You dont. Your problem is that you rely heavily on IDF sources.
12. If the arabs hadn't been violent, bombing terrorists there
Bunnie Meyer ,   Los Angeles, CA USA   (12.04.09)
would be no need for the wall. They bring this on themselves, no one should pity them.
13. To Sarah
Laura ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (12.04.09)
The protest of the wall in Ni'lin is held every Friday at the same time and is a very well-known to be non-violent. Still, there are usually several protesters each month who are injured by high-velocity tear gas canisters, rubber bullets and live bullets during peaceful demonstrations. There are plenty of videos online. What are your thoughts on Tristan Anderson, out of curiosity? It might be in your benefit to admit fault where it's due, particularly if you want others to take your other arguments seriously later on. There is no excuse for shooting live ammunition into a non-violent crowd, and that is what happens on a regular basis at the wall in Ni'lin. This is not up for debate. If you can't admit that the riot police were out of line in these situations, then you no longer have credibility.
14. #6 and #7
Laura ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (12.04.09)
Could you please explain to me how a non-violent protest is against the law? Last time I checked Israel is classified as a democracy.
15. To Sarah: It's Israel' Fault Also..Too Jewish
Dav Lev ,   Burbank. CAUSA   (12.04.09)
To Sarah: I understand your vitriole against some posters, for their blatant pro-Pales bias. But lets be frank about something, Israeli law enforcement (and govt) is far too lenient against violent protestors. These demo are repeated time and time again, from my readings. Israel's tutu or whatever, only emboldens them. One demonstrator gets hit, and there is the PR for them (like those that tried to break the Gaza blockade). It's all the same pattern..AND they have quick access to the media all throughout the world. Well coordinated. Look, here in Calif. it's 25 to life., no parole sometimes for 3 felonies. Why not Israel? Texas hangs people for murder..after appeals. Why not Israel? Barghouti may go free for Shalit..with 1,200 others, free to kill Jews again. Sarah, Israel needs a good swift kick I am afraid to say, where it hurts. It's leaders act like ghetto Jews, pleading, hoping, occasionlly aggressive. 6.5m Jews found out, wishful thinking doesn't work. That guy in Germany being tried, is the last. He murdered over 22,000 innocent babies and women and old people..probably smirking all the time, as the pellets dropped. Like Mohammad and Hasan, it will be another pr victory for Jew haters..after all "25,000 US servicemen died to save the Holocaust Jews". Get it.
16. To Sarah: Fatwas by the Thousands and Tutu's Aggravate?
Dav Lev ,   Burbank. CAUSA   (12.04.09)
To Sarah: Israel/ USA..I am an American born very proud Zionist Jew. I will die to protect my brethren. That said, I am sometimes ashamed to be Jewish. Israel is trading 1,200 murderers for Shalit. They want a pledge beforehand of non-violence. Sure and we Jews are smart? The demos at the fence should have been nipped in the bud years ago..3 felonies and 25 to life, no parole, hard labor. You commit a murder..and you hang..from a 12.00 hangmans' noose or be flogged 500 times (The Saudis and Sudanese do it). Kuntar is directing terrorism from Lebanon..and Barghouti from prison...why? Where are the Israeli commandos? Hamas, Hez, Lebanon, Syria and Iran are the "Axis of Israel's evil". Yet Israel wants to better image to appease J. Kerry, C. Rose, Fein, Beilin, Livni even Peres., while fatwas are issued by the thousands throughout the Muslim world. Don't believe me, go to their websites.
17. What's new, every week the same demo , ISM, and stone throws
JO   (12.04.09)
These demos are not peaceful, often stones are thrown and people breach the barrier in order to cause provocation. Every week, foreigners and teenage Palestinians come for the show, it being a closed military zone and all. plenty of pics of all the stone throwing and screaming in video. Old news this. if this was peaceful it would be different. ISmers and their cameras in tow like it rowdy.
18. This was a violent protest not non violent one
jo2   (12.04.09)
or does not the reader not read what is said. This place is always violent, catch it on Youtube, lots of stone throwing and rioting. Ism is not the only one with cameras- first hand wittness
19. To: Laura at No. 13
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.04.09)
Throwing rocks and boulders and burning tires is your idea of non-violent protest? If so, you are the one with the credibility problem.
20. How long does it take to build the security barrier?
Judah ,   Golan Heights,ISRAEL   (12.04.09)
Its been 8 years and the security barrier is still not even close to being finished. This is a joke! The barrier needs to be finished immediately and then the government needs to begin work on a security barrier between us and Egypt.
21. To: No. 11
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.04.09)
I don't attend rallies against the security fence. It saves Jewish lives, and I am all for it. I have seen pro-Palestinian rallies in New York on any number of occasions. People waving hate-filled banners and posters, wearing sinister balaclava helmets or wrapping their faces completely in keffiyehs, carrying signs proclaiming "Death to the Jews," "Death to the Zionists," "Death to Israel." Angry, hate-filled demonstrations always threatening and on the edge of violence. Not going to win very many friends or influence very many people that way. Contrast that with the Salute to Israel parade in New York -- smiling children, proud adults, marching in unison applauded by Jews and non-Jews alike. No banners, posters or signs proclaiming death to anyone. Therein the difference, Noor. Which I have seen with my own eyes; not from any IDF sources. Your problem is that you rely too heavily on Palestinian lies and propaganda. That is why the Palestinians have achieved absolutely nothing in sixty-one years. And why you never will.
22. JO
Laura ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (12.04.09)
No, the demonstration at Ni'lin is not a violent protest. Perhaps you're talking about the protest at Bilin. You're right in saying that there is sometimes light stone throwing, but the rocks rarely even come close to riot control. In those few incidences in the past that there have been threatening stone throwing or any other action that represents a legitimate threat, I think the riot control is fully justified in using certain techniques such as tear gas and rubber bullets. However there IS a limit. The firing of live ammunition, for example, into a crowd of protesters, even if some are throwing rocks, is not justified.
23. To Sarah #19
zyad abu zaydoon ,   ramallah/palestine   (12.04.09)
It seems to me you have to admit you only value life if its jewish only . i have seen violence from setters who had to leave gaza they bruned and threw and used everything around them to try to hurt army but not one was killed . humm well maybe it was heart brakeing to see ppl leaveing theres homes against there will for everyone to see . but some years ago ppl palestinens who would not leave there homes were killed . im sure if u can understand the pain of the settlers u can understand the pain of the palestines some how . just think about it. why would one risk his life to throw a stone .
24. Sarah, what a way to dodge a question!
Noor ,   Palestine   (12.04.09)
"I don't attend rallies against the security fence. It saves Jewish lives, and I am all for it. " I didnt ask you to tell me whether attending an anti-separation fence is in your interest. Whether you support an apartheid wall is irrelevant in this situation and I can care less. But, youve proven that you dont attend these protests which also proves that your responses to reports such as this one are full of blatant assumptions. You are too darn obvious. "I have seen pro-Palestinian rallies in New York.... Way to pull a typical lawyer's trick, Sarah. Does this report have anything to do with a protest being held in New York? Absolutely not, but you reside to explaining your expereinces in New York for the purpose of misleading other posters into believing that the protests held at Naalin are the same as those held in New York. One more way to prove to everyone that your responses are filled with naiive and unreliable assumptions. "Not going to win very many friends or influence very many people that way. " I find people holding up posters saying, "death to jews" and the like as tasteless. In fact, most Palestinians share my view as well. "Contrast that with the Salute to Israel parade in New York -- smiling children, proud adults, marching in unison applauded by Jews and non-Jews alike. No banners, posters or signs proclaiming death to anyone. " They dont have to hold up those signs because their relatives are not under occupation, the basic rights of their friends and family in Israel havent been stripped of them, and their freedom of movement is not rejected by any oppressive military. Of course they wouldnt do such a thing. "Therein the difference, Noor. Which I have seen with my own eyes; not from any IDF sources." No, you didnt. You simply shared your experiences in New York with the rest of us. We all know now that youve never been to these protests. In fact, youve proven that your rhetoric today is plagued with personal assumptions and IDF sources. "Your problem is that you rely too heavily on Palestinian lies and propaganda. " Im not the one with the assumptions. Neither did I say that Naalin features non-violent protests nor did I say that they were violent. I was simply trying to prove to everyone that you dont know what youre talking about. Youve never been to any of these protests, and if anyone has any doubts about this, they can always refer to your post #21 to see that there is truth to this. Keep exposing yourself as an unenlightened fool by continuing to rely on IDF sources. Thanks for making my job so much easier.
25. To: No. 23
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.04.09)
Oh, please. A people who use suicide bombers hardly have anything to say on the subject of the value of life. You are being factually absurd, let alone inaccurate. Israel left intact working greenhouses and hydroponic farms in Gaza. It was the Gazans that blew them up, in order to make room for a terrorist training camp. Apartment buildings and homes were left intact, as well. I don't know what happened to those, but I know they were standing and occupant-ready when Israel left Gaza. The pain of the Palestinians is of their own making, Zyad. A history of bad choices. But it is your history, and you have to accept it for what it is. Three rejected opportunities for a two-state solution. Six wars started by, and lost by, Arabs. Sixty-one years of unrelenting terror on a global scale. Presumably, I do not have to tell you the improvements made in Judea and Samaria between 1967 and autonomous rule by the Palestine Authority. You know that the PA has ignored the ordinary Palestinians in Judea and Samaria. You know that very little of the billions of dollars and billions of euros in aid has reached its intended beneficiaries. You know that the PA leadership has grown wealthy on the backs of the Palestinians. You know that the money intended to improve the economy in the areas administered by the PA has not been used to that purpose. You know that senior PA leadership have used the money to purchase very lavish second and third homes in Europe, to send their children abroad to university, and to establish some very hefty foreign bank accounts. The infrastructure in the PA is crumbling. Unemployment is rampant, and inflation is a huge problem. The PA has not attracted foreign investment, and has done nothing to improve the daily lot of Palestinians in the West Bank. Universities have closed, hospitals have closed. Because of the constant threat of terrorist infiltration, employment in Israel -- which had always been available -- no longer is, and the PA has not provided alternative employment or opportunities. Israel is not to blame for the Palestinian condition. I note for the record that Arabs who did not heed the call to leave their homes in 1948 to make way for the "conquering Arab armies" who had promised to "throw the Jews into the sea" are citizens of Israel today, enjoying a standard of living unparalleled in the Arab world. I sympathize with your plight. I think that had you only been willing to accept Israel's right to exist in its ancient homeland without war, without terror and without continued threats to its existence, things would have worked out far better. I think that your Arab brethren, in failing to resettle refugees, and in keeping so many people in those festering refugee camps, are largely responsible for your plight. I also think that turning down a two-state solution on three occasions has not served you in good stead at all. That said -- I do not think it is possible to undo history. It is what it is. Mistakes are what they are, and the Palestinians have to take ownership and responsibility for their many mistakes. Can't put toothpaste back into the tube, Zyad.
26. To: No. 22
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.04.09)
"Light stone throwing?" If you find that acceptable, you shouldn't have a problem with .22 Ruger ammunition. After all, it's not exactly a high-velocity artillery shell, now, is it? Stones can kill, particularly when hurled with great force from a sling. (Remember Goliath?) You may as well argue that Hamas is not guilty of anything because the missiles they fire rarely hit anything. Not an argument I would make -- malevolence is tied to intent, not efficacy or result. You are a consummate fool, Laura. Sorry.
27. To: Dav Lev at No. 15
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.04.09)
You're preaching to the choir, honey. Was it Stalin who said that the best way to put down rebellion in Hungary would be to shoot a few rebels? Distasteful, but one can hardly argue its effectiveness. Particularly if one must deal with a people who understand and respect only strength.
28. To: Apa, with respect to No. 10
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.04.09)
Arab countries have very different rules for Arabs and everyone else. Most countries have different sets of rules which apply to citizens and to non-citizens. The right to vote comes to mind, for example. I am not sure the post at No. 10 is a point worth making as it points up a policy that every country has, in one or another form. I daresay that Arabs in Israel are treated far better than Jews in any Arab or Moslem lands.
29. To Sarah
Laura ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (12.04.09)
Perhaps I'm a fool. But for now, let's keep the discussion on topic and leave the personal insults to the side. For the sake of diplomacy, which I'm sure you know quite a lot about, right? Right. There is a very big difference between the throwing of stones and Hamas rockets. Don't even try that. The fact is, the firing of live ammunition into a non-threatening crowd of peaceful protesters is NOT JUSTIFIED. Perhaps tear gas. Perhaps rubber bullets. No, .22 Ruger ammunition is not acceptable. Sorry. Also you didn't answer my question earlier- what are your thoughts on Tristan Anderson? Or have you even heard of him?
30. To: No. 22, redux
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.04.09)
Oh, the demonstrations at Naalin have been most violent, indeed: http://wejew.com/media/6850/Arabs_Tear_Down_Terror_Barrier_at_Naalin/ http://www.jewlicious.com/2009/11/bringing-down-part-of-the-barrier-at-naalin/ http://politicom.moldova.org/news/more-violence-at-security-barrier-149667-eng.html
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