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Report: Palestinian moderately hurt in Naalin
Ynet reporters
Published: 04.12.09, 15:26
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31. #29--You mean Tristan Anderson, the career rabblerouser?
A Nice Fellow ,   Montreal   (12.04.09)
Sure, everyone knows who he is: he is some westerner who got injured while meddling in Israel's affairs and throwing projectiles at Israeli soldiers. Just another knucklehead terror supporter who risks his life for a worthless bunch of "freedom fighters"
32. #30, 31
Laura ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (12.04.09)
Sarah- there are always protests that stray from the professed path of non-violence, and it does happen. You're absolutely correct in citing this as an example, but keep in mind it represents only a few out of the past several hundred (this has been a scheduled protest for several years now). The Ni'ilin protest does not have a record or history of being violent, in fact, quite the contrary. Incidences do occur, in which case, should be addressed with the appropriate response from riot control (which does not include the use of live ammunition or high-velocity tear gas canisters). Riot control response should also be directed at the violator, not at innocent bystanders. Tristan Anderson is a good example of this. To 31, you can call him a career rabblerouser or a "knucklehead terror supporter" all you want (however inaccurate), but that does not justify him getting shot in the head by a high velocity tear gas canister. No, he was not "throwing projectiles." He was taking pictures.
33. To Sarah: Tell Your Leaders to Hang Em HIgh
Dav Lev ,   Burbank. CAUSA   (12.05.09)
To Sarah: My post, while directed at you, are for all readers to see and digest. I am ashamed to be a Jew, frankly. Israel did not survive for 60 years being timid. (See Begin, Shamir, Golda, Dayan, Gurion, Sharon, Netanyahu). I favor (not now used) lethal injection, or simple 12.00 ropes for convicted terrorists with murder on their hands, or accomplices to same (as in Calif). Our LAPD and Sheriffs, know how to deal with our own wise guys, or insurgents. During the Watts Riots, finally, the NG was called in. The entire city was burning however, entire shopping centers firebombed. A closed miliary zone..then how come the repeated riots? To Israel: arrest, try, convict and punish these people, Jews and Arabs alike. 25 to life..if someone is killed, then hang them. I will pay for the rope..and watch with glee.
34. Local Demos See "Kill the Juice" Get It!
Dav Lev ,   Burbank. CAUSA   (12.05.09)
To Sarah: You are making a bigo mistake by using logic on the Pales and their supporters. You think like a Jew, expecting THEM, to do likewise. Never happen. M. Dayan, knew the Arabs..current Israeli leaders don't. Bibi is not ideological, but is practical. He knows the USA is giving Israel 30b in military aid over 10 yrs and UN support. Whether Israeli or Diaspora Jews..we are in a war with Islamic-fascists. As J. Kerry said, you destroy the head (Al Qaeda) via Pakistan/Afghanistan. Israel should destroy the head AND the small arteries and veins. ( Fence protestors). Note that some US leaders were in support of Goldstone..and against the "fence". Soooo, there are many enemies..bottom line: Israel needs to get serious and stop playing boy scout and social worker. Reverse..the Pales would show no mercy. They say here, "Kill the Juice" at demos. We must all wake up.
35. To: No. 29
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.04.09)
Calling you a fool was not a personal insult, it relates to your abject ignorance in the face of facts. And the protesters at Na'alin are hardly peaceful. Didn't they tear down a section of the security fence just a few weeks ago? How would you feel if some terrorist suicide bomber slipped through and plied his trade in Israel against innocent civilians? Silly question, I guess. I suspect you'd be in the vanguard, leading the cheers. Of course I know about Tristan Anderson. The question is -- do you? Tristan Anderson was a professional agitator, with a long record of interference in matters that did not involve him and in countries where he did not belong. A forty-something who never held a job. He had no ties to Israel; no connection; he came to Israel as a "tourist" and promptly sought out how best to get involved in anti-Israel protests. He got exactly what he deserved. A calculated risk which an agent provocateur must take. I hope his family has reimbursed Israel for his medical care. Is he a particular hero of yours? What are you doing in Israel, anyway? Why not move to Ramallah where you can live among your soul-mates? Why opt for the relative safety and security of Jerusalem? Seems a tadbit hypocritical to me.
36. #25 sarah usa
zyad aby zaydoon ,   ramallah/palestine   (12.05.09)
you had to right me a book on history and not one time did u blame israel. and u know all this by reading and watching the news have you even been to israel or palestine what ever u want to call it , you blamed everything on the arabs its not anyones fault that you say god promised you the land and when u go there make sure you kill anyone who lived there or try that is . there are many mistakes that the arabs made many mistakes but does that mean jews or israels havent. what improvements are you talking about the west bank is under military rule the only so called improvement is the settlements and the land that was stolen to build roads for them and by passing arab towns that means cutting a lot of olive trees which settlers love doing . you talk so much about the PA which is also under israeli control cant do anything israel dont want them to do anything .
37. To: No. 36 - Part 1 of 2
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.05.09)
Yes, I have been to Israel. Many times. My husband is Israeli, and we live in Israel six months of the year. We buried a son here, killed in a suicide bombing attack. You have an extremely incorrect impression that Judea and Samaria are "occupied." They are not. Judea and Samaria constitute non-sovereign land, and were acquired by Israel in the course of fighting a defensive war against Jordan. International law is quite clear on this issue. Here is a link which will help you to educate yourself a bit on the issue. It wouldn't hurt you to read the treatise in its entirety, but you can scroll down to the section titled "Law on Israel's Takeover of 1967 Lands." Read both subparagraphs 1 and 2 -- the first examines the issue under Security Council Resolution 242. The second section discusses Acquisition of Non-Sovereign Land in a Defensive War and concludes that international law does not preclude Israel from retaining and settling Judea and Samaria and, in fact, fully supports Israel’s right to do precisely that. http://www.globalpolitician.com/24388-israel-jerusalem As to the question of improvements, perhaps you are unaware that at the time Israel acquired Judea and Samaria, only 30% of homes had indoor plumbing. Only 20% of homes had electricity. The West Bank had one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world. There were no highways, and no infrastructure to speak of generally. There was one hospital (I do not include Hadassah Hospital and the Jewish enclave on Mount Scopus). There was no waste disposal system, and sewage ran raw in the streets, which is thought to have been the root cause of the constant outbreaks of cholera that plagued the West Bank. Israel fixed all that and more. Israel brought electricity and indoor plumbing to all homes. Israel brought modern irrigation techniques. Israel built hospitals, schools and universities. You need to take a closer look at the olive trees which were allegedly cut down. You will find that only the branches have been pruned and cut back, as is necessary to do with olive trees. Another Palestinian propaganda ploy. I will deal with the whole "olive grove" issue in Part 2 of my reply. Please understand that a two-state solution was proffered in 1947, and while the Jews accepted it, the Arabs did not. One day after announcing the birth of the modern State of Israel, five Arab armies attacked the fledgling Jewish state. The Arabs lost. And that is the genesis of the very bitter pill that Palestinian Arabs have had to swallow. But, hey -- Israel did not start the war. The Arabs did. Or do you have a different spin on that little fact? Wouldn't surprise me. Shouldn't start wars, Zyad, unless you are very, VERY sure that you can win. The consequences can be very devastating. They certainly have been, for you. But having sown the wind, the Palestinian Arabs must reap the whirlwind. That is just how history, diplomacy and life work, Zyad. All your protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.
38. hurt
colin   (12.05.09)
Protester moderately hurt. ??? What is wrong with our security forces, When you have one of these rubbish in hand break thier backs,remove some ears,shatter bones that they will remen\ber all thier remaining lives, Stones are parrelled to bullets in all countrys of the world.
39. Re: #9, Sarah B
Apa ,   NYC   (12.05.09)
We might not agree, but such ad hominem attacks are completely uncalled for. I don't call you a racial supremacist bigot with attitudes more fit for a German in 1939 than an Israeli American in 2009, so please refrain from throwing names at your critics I am well aware that the Jews who throw stones are part of a lunatic fringe. However, I pointed out that they receive a very different treatment from the IDF than the Palestinians who throw stones do. How was the weekly riot over parking lots in Jerusalem substantially different from the rally in Na'alin? Both sides believed they were right, violence happened at both places, and the riots were known of in advance. Yet the police chose not to use live ammunition or rubber-coated bullets at the parking-lot riots. Judge Yuval Shadmi dared to call a spade a spade a while back: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3803802,00.html As did the Or comission. As for the barrier in itself - keep it. But move it to the green line so it becomes uncontentious.
40. Re: #28, Sarah
Apa ,   NYC   (12.05.09)
Yes, Arab countries are mostly racist. Even towards other Arabs. However, that does not in any way excuse Israeli discrimination. The question should be - are Arabs in Israel and the territories treated as well as Jews in the US? In Australia? In France? If you want Israel to be compared to Arab dictatorships, go ahead. They sure are a good light unto the nations. As for non-citizens within your borders - in other countries those non-citizens are usually immigrants and not the native inhabitants of the land. These people lived here before the establishment of Israel, and as such your comparison and justification does not hold true.
41. To: No. 36, redux
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.05.09)
Zyad, the simple fact is that Arabs have told themselves the same lies so often, they have come to believe them to be true. Did you know, Zyad, that Hebron, Schechem and Jerusalem always had dominant Jewish populations; Arabs were always a minority? Did you know that when Jordan captured Judea, Samaria and East Jerusalem in 1948, they massacred or deported all the Jews, destroyed fifty-eight synagogues and defiled Jewish graves that reach back several thousand years? Did you know that? Palestine is simply not your heritage, Zyad. It is mine. Equating “Palestinians” with Arabs is a relatively new phenomenon, born in 1969, I believe, at a conference in Cairo. Just another Arab lie to foist upon a naïve and unsuspecting world. I am sorry if I sound harsh. But six wars and sixty-one years of terror and an even longer period of Arab perfidy and lies have not made me particularly tolerant of people who wish to turn history, international convention and precedent on its ear, all in support of a lie. And that is precisely what the Arabs have done. Wrap that up with residual hatred of Jews throughout the world, and you have one neat little package. Why is it that Palestinian Arabs, while professing to want to live in peace, refuse to acknowledge the right of the State of Israel to exist in its ancient homeland? Why do the thirty-odd organizations each purporting to be the sole true representative of the “Palestinian people” refuse to repudiate their charters, each of which calls for the destruction of the “Zionist entity” (that would be Israel) and the extermination and/or expulsion of the Jewish people? Why would anyone think that Israel would be wise to negotiate ANYTHING with ANYONE unless and until there is a repudiation of those vile charters and recognition of the State of Israel, and its right to exist? You, Zyad, seem to think that Israel and the Palestinian Arabs are “equivalent partners” in a negotiation process. That is simply not the case. I assure you that never before in history have a people who have lost one war – let alone six wars -- been deemd to have a right to set the terms and conditions of surrender. And, whether you like it or not, the Palestinian Arabs are a vanquished people. Six times. Then there is the little matter of sixty-one years of terror. That hasn’t worked either. Now you play on people’s inherent (perhaps inherited?) dislike of Jews, and look to the world to fix the myriad of Palestinian Arab problems for you by undoing history. Do you really think that will work? Whatever lip service may be paid to Palestinian Arabs, do you really think that a conservative world is going to allow you to reverse millennia of convention and practice? It will never happen. It is time for Palestinian Arabs to recognize the reality of their past – however painful – and accept the fact that Israel is not your “enemy.” The worst enemy of Palestinian Arabs are – you guessed it – Palestinian Arabs. You have been repeatedly betrayed by your leadership and you have made incredibly poor decisions and choices. But Israel will not pay the price for your mistakes. Sorry. It just doesn’t work that way. On a practical note – Jordan has absolutely no historical legitimacy; it was created by the British following World War I to appease Feisal’s younger brother, who wanted to be a king, just like Feisal. So a huge chunk of Mandatory Palestine was carved out and became “Hashemite Kingdom of the Transjordan.” Stuff and nonsense. Jordan – where 75% of the population are Palestinian Arabs – is your Palestinian state. Take your problems up with them.
42. To: No. 32
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.05.09)
Laura, Tristan Anderson lied to gain entry into Israel. He claimed he was there as a tourist, when that was in fact not true. I think his family owes Israel a huge debt of gratitude that Israel has provided top-notch medical care to Anderson. He was admitted into Israel based upon his false representations that he was there merely to visit. We know conclusively that that was not the case, as an investigation revealed that Anderson was picked up at the airport by an ISM representative and taken straight to the West Bank. He has been arrested numerous times in numerous countries. His parents are hippies who never quite adjusted to the real world, and think it is a fine idea for their son to gallivant around the world fomenting trouble. Well, do that often enough, and sooner or later, trouble finds you right back. That is what happened to Anderson. He WAS a professional rabble-rouser. If he really wanted to do good and to be of help, he could have gone to volunteer in a refugee camp in Dharfur. He could have joined volunteers in any number of locations throughout the world where people are truly oppressed. Somalia. Ivory Coast. Banda Ace. The Congo. But no. He wanted maximum publicity. I suspect he got far more than he bargained for.
43. To: No. 39
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.05.09)
Apa, I do not know you, and I have only the tenor of your posts to go by. Your posts are virulently anti-Jewish and anti-Israel. That's not an epithet, that's just FACT. I am not a "racial supremacist." I believe in fact, history and law. That is always the substance of my comments. The radical Israelis who throw stones are, for better or worse, citizens of Israel. The Palestinian Arabs who throw stones are not. They live in areas where Israeli law does not apply, as the territory has not been formally annexed. Is that such a difficult concept for you to understand? The fact of the matter is that you can point to a scant handful of violent incidents which have been provoked by right-wing Jews, and thousands that have been provoked by Palestinian Arabs. That, too, is FACT. The Israeli judiciary is rather like the Ninth Circuit in the United States -- a liberal court whose rulings are based in unrealistic wishful thinking rather than the law. Moreover, there is no shortage of U.S. Supreme Court rulings which have been subsequently reversed by the Court. Similarly, the Israeli courts have been known to reverse previous rulings. What does that prove? Nothing, really, except that judges are not perfect and have been known to make errors. That is why I am such a big fan of history. History does not lie. History is full of mistakes, even grievous ones with horrendous consequences. That, too, is FACT. What is also fact is that those who have made such grievous mistakes with horrendous consequences must still take ownership of their mistakes. No amount of Palestinian Arab violence will ever undo the grievous mistakes with horrendous consequences which the Palestinian Arabs have made. If anything, it hardens Israeli resolve. We will not bend to outrageous Arab demands that have no basis in international convention, law or precedent. That, too, dear, is a FACT.
44. To: No. 40
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.05.09)
Your analogy and suggested basis for comparison is inapposite and, in fact, plainly absurd. It is not the fault of Israel that Arab and Moslem nations are repressive and autocratic regimes. That is the only basis for comparison -- it is Arabs who are fomenting trouble non-stop and turning so-called "peaceful" demonstrations into riots. Not the French. Not the Americans. Not the Australians. So why on earth would you consider it intellectually sound to pluck such disparate countries to compare? For the record, Arab citizens of Israel enjoy all the rights of citizenship and few of the obligations (no military service, for example). If you're more comfortable with that analogy, let's use it. Contrast treatment of Arabs in Israel with that of Jews in any Arab nation. You will find, Apa, that Jews in Arab and Moslem lands endure horrific persecution -- yet they are not permitted to leave. Jews have maintained a continuous present in the region since Biblical times. Jews are the indigenous population; Arabs come from the Arabian peninsula and are relatively new interlopers. There has always been a Jewish presence in Jerusalem, Schehem, Hebron, Safed, Capernaum and Tveriya. Also in Pek'in. In fact, despite their numbers being relatively small, Jews have ALWAYS constituted the overwhelming majority in all the foregoing cities and towns. You COULD look it up. In fact -- you should. The State of Israel was established three thousand years ago. LONG before Arabs were even an identifiable population. The modern State of Israel is merely the resumption of Jewish statehood; our roots and claim to the land trump anyone else's. You should look that up, too.
45. Sarah: a sincere advice
observer   (12.05.09)
Watch out the future wars that the Arabs will start... The winds of change are blowing.
46. Re: #Sarah
Apa ,   NYC   (12.05.09)
As a lawyer I am sure you can differentiate between de jure and de facto. Although there de jure is no discrimination against Israeli Arabs, de facto is a different matter. The judge held that, as did the Or commission. Regarding the matter of the different laws for different people in the same territory - what surprises me is that a person of reason such as yourself can not see that that is wrong. The arabs in the West Bank did not go anywhere - they have been there all the time. Then another people moved in and brought their own laws with them. The reason you are a racial supremacist is that you don't understand the moral wrong in differentiated laws. You believe that the Israeli's moving into the west bank should enjoy protection under one law, while the Arabs already living their should enjoy less protection under another law. The "citizen" argument is just a pretext for a racial argument. Why hasn't Israel annexed the land as with East Jerusalem - because you want to keep your country ethnically pure. Regarding your last points, how recent a people came to be is irrelevant in regards to its rights as a people. The Palestinian notion of nationhood as been formed by forced exile and oppression - ironically not too dissimilar from the formation of the Jewish self identity. Them not having been there 3000 years ago does not make it any less of their homeland, and it does not diminish their human rights or their right to their own property. And yes, Jews in some arab lands are persecuted. How does this affect the case at hand? Why point to other atrocities and say "they are doing it too" - is that sound reasoning? If my neighbor beats up his wife, I am allowed to beat up mine?
47. To: No. 46 - Part 1 of 2 - 2nd Try
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.05.09)
Apa, Israelis moving to Judea and Samaria does not require protection under any law. Israel acquired the land legally, and with it, the unassailable right to settle there. Forced exile? How does one "exile" a people who were illegal squatters on land which was not theirs in the first place? If you wish to pluck that argument out of the clear blue, then I invite you to examine whether Israel has the right to lay claim to the Kingdom of Jordan, which was illegally carved out of the Palestine mandate to please the whim of a second son, and the Jews living there forcibly deported. Not only is Jordan an unjustifiable entity, but what of the rights of the Jews who were forcibly evicted from what had been their homes for thousands of years? For that matter, what of the rights of the Jews who were forcibly expelled from their homes in Arab and Moslem lands without compensation? Your silence on these issues has been most deafening. Two disparate peoples cannot in this case claim the same homeland. The greater right, historically, accrues to the Jews. However, the Jews were quite content to accept the tiny sliver of land which which the UN resolution in 1947 accorded them -- the overwhelming majority of the balance being earmarked for the Arabs. The Jews accepted the offer, the Arabs did not, and the rest is history. What comes next, according to you, Apa? Should the United States cede itself back to the British because the British are REALLY sorry that they lost the American Revolutionary War? Should Canada be ceded back to the French because the French are REALLY sorry that they lost the Seven Years (French & Indian) War? Should the United States restore Puerto Rico and Guam to Spain, because Spain REALLY did not mean to lose the Spanish-American War. Why require Israel to cede back ANY territory, particularly in light of the fact that unlike the previous examples, Israel is retaining territory in acquired while fighting wars IT DID NOT START. No amount of anti-Semitism and anti-Israel sentiment will be enough to cause the powers that be in the world to turn international convention on its ear just to please a violent and belligerent people (wars, terror) whose right to ANY territory in the region is questionable at best. I remind you, too, that between 1948 and 1967, Palestinian Arabs in the West Bank never agitated for their own state (although they did agitate for the destruction of the State of Israel) -- they were most content to remain Jordanian. Your argument, hence, does not fly. A lot of people throughout the world perceive themselves as oppressed, a great many actually are, but you do not see anybody setting forth to create an independent Basque state or an independent Kurdish state. I assure you that their claims are far more based in substance than those of Palestinian Arabs.
48. To: No. 46 - Part 2 of 2 - 2nd Try
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.05.09)
The Palestinian Arabs had a perfect right to have their own property, which they rejected, choosing instead to go to war. Six times. Oops! Not the best of decisions, but it was theirs. You are so big on human rights -- seems to me the most important human right of all is the right of exercise of free will. The Arab Palestinians have exercised that inalienable right. They have to live with the consequences of such exercise -- not Israel. Get it? I am glad that you recognize that Jews in some Arab lands are persecuted. How does it affect the case at hand? It doesn't. You raised the point, and I gave you the courtesy of a response. Having raised the point, you need to lay claim to it as your exercise of free will, and not spin it and try to lay it off on me. You know, Apa, in a different world, we could be friends. Unfortunately, not in this one. Same thing with the Israeli-Arab situation. Had the Palestinian Arabs accepted partition in 1947, an Israeli state and an Arab state could have evolved side by side, living in harmony and peaceful co-existence, each benefiting from the other's presence. But that was not to be, and six wars and sixty-one years of terror later, Palestinian Arab refusal to recognize the State of Israel or even the RIGHT of the State of Israel to exist later, and all those charters calling for the destruction of the Jewish State and the extermination/expulsion of the Jewish people later -- well -- too bad. You cannot put toothpaste back into the tube, no matter how hard you try. The Palestinians have to learn to accept this, and move on with their lives. They will never amount to anything otherwise. Finally – if Israel’s terrorist neighbors fire missiles into Israel, and sends suicide bombers targeting innocent Israeli civilians, and declares its intent to continue to do so until Israel is destroyed, does Israel – a sovereign state – have a right to defend itself? If someone declares its intent to destroy you, you have an affirmative duty to make sure that does not happen. Why castigate Israel for asserting its affirmative duty? Why not castigate those that declare their intention to destroy Israel and murder Jews? Your failure to do so, Apa, is what makes you so incredibly hypocritical.
49. To: No. 45
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.05.09)
Thank you for your "sincere advice." Israel has successfully culled Egypt and Jordan right out of the Arab herd. So, which Arabs are going to seed the winds of change? Ahhh. Hadn't though about that, had you? Egypt does not want to lose Sinai again. Jordan does not have a credible military; it depended on Israel to pull its chestnuts out of the coals when Syria cast its eyes southward to Jordan. On two occasions, actually, and that was before Jordan's peace treaty with Israel. Winds of change, indeed.
50. Gosh darn!
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.06.09)
Here I go to all the trouble of composing replies to questions posed from rabid anti-Semites and Israel-haters, documenting facts, and what do I get in return? Silence. Was it something I said?
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