A test we cannot fail
Ziv Lenchner
Published: 10.12.09, 10:09
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22 Talkbacks for this article
1. Lawless Settlers
DR ,   Hebron   (12.10.09)
I see now that we have let the settlers get away with their annoying ways of not supporting the destruction of Israel by the Israeli government. I now see that the only way to curb this is to follow he lead of Iran. Execution, torture and rape will curb their insolence.
2. this article is left wing b.s.
Brian ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (12.10.09)
first you demonize them and make them outcasts, to try and win peace with those who hate you and want you dead no matter what, and to win favor with western nations that hate you so much, that their hatred is the reason we are here in the first place, than you complain that they wont follow the rules you make? WELL, YES THIS NATION IS IN A LOT OF TROUBLE! The stupid left wing caused this all, you sold out our truest most loyal and brave citizens, to make friends with those who hate us, you dumb asses need to wake up, Gaza, than Judea and Samaria, East Jerusalem, and you think it will end there? WAKE THE HELL UP!!! You damn idiots.
DAVID ,   JUDEA   (12.10.09)
Ynet is in a constant propaganda war at the hands of war mongers like the writer of this rag. Underlying all this hatred is a deep fear, because the people living in Judea and the Shomron do not fit into their assimilating Hellenist ways and so we are a danger to their utopian dictatorship. It is amusing how these people always bring up the same argument about a law abiding state. While many of us know that the state and what it represents has a total disregard for the law and is run by a bunch of law breakers at every twist and turn. One can only hope that quote " the normal existence of the state" will be changed. The writer shows all signs of a good old brainwashed Communist or Fascist, you take your pick, in the way he puts das Father land uber alles. As these same Israelis are proud to shout never again, they show some very familair signs, we as Jews have seen before from many dictatorships in history.
4. not a test for rule of law
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (12.10.09)
This is not a test for the rule of law. Lencher is well aware that the problem is the failure of democracy and selective enforcement. The government has violated the rights enshrined in Israel's basic laws and enforce this violation with violence, including beating democratically elected officials. The government damaged its Right-wing citizens property rights and gave them no non-violent recourse. This is while building and labor laws are not enforced against the Capitalist/Leftist sector (for example, Kibbutz Shfayim) or against the Arab sector. Will the government win? With the help of the Israeli Basji, the YSM stormtroopers, non-violent protest is ineffective. But the damage to Israeli democracy will be so great that Israel will not be able to defend itself against its external enemies.
5. WAKE UP those who try to destroy 'the Setlers"
Laura ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (12.10.09)
the so called "settlers" are the real gift in our tiny country. They are the ones holding up the laws that were given to the Jewish nation by G*D and they are the ones settling in the land. I only pray that those who don't understand this, open your eyes and wake up
6. This is about the modification of borders?
Steve   (12.10.09)
The writer maintains that "a sovereign state is entitled to evacuate some of its territory, modify its borders, and transport its citizens accordingly...." etc. What state or states historically modified their borders except as an act of (conditional or unconditional surrender? What undefeated nation would be so foolish as to give up precious, even strategic territory other than a foolish nation, led by foolish leaders?
7. First "The Rule Of Law" Needs To Apply To Barak
Yishai Kohen ,   YeShA, Israel   (12.10.09)
Send him and his wife to jail for employing an illegal worker. On the other hand, building here in OUR land isn't illegal: It's Zionism.
8. Civil war MAYBE (intifada no)
JP ,   Israel   (12.10.09)
If there is violence (which the word intifada suggests) it will not come from the people who rightfully and legally live in Judea/Samaria but from THE TREASONOUS GOVERNMENT WHICH CONSIDERS THE USE OF VIOLENCE AND FORCE ACCEPTABLE EVEN AGAINST ITS OWN PEOPLE. A government which, by the way completely changed its policies once into office. AND YOU CALL ISRAEL A DEMOCRACY? I think you need to look up the definition of democracy!!!!
9. I rembember the Israeli call to reign in Palestinian terror
Jacob ,   Munich   (12.10.09)
groups. Israeli law must be respected, otherwise you can no longer call Israel a democracy. Fight the Beginnings with zero tolerance
10. Law is Leftist BS created by self-nominating Bagatz
Tomer ,   Herzeliyya   (12.10.09)
Judges who are nothing more than a Branja of Meretz supporters with gowns. Any Israeli PM who does not give Land to the Arabs has his life turned to hell by the Bagatz & their friends who control all radio & TV. (Re: Sharon's Itnatkut). I am afraid this country is heading towards a constitutional crisis & civil unrest. When Feiglin is PM and orders dismissal of the Bagatz, Bagatz will order dismissal of Feiglin. Who will the police and army obey????
11. Demonize the "settlers".
Ron B. ,   Lod   (12.10.09)
Then no one will complain when you steal Jewish land. The settlers are the Jews who returned to live in Samaria and Judea and eastern Jerusalem ever since the Jews fought off the Arab invasion in 1968.They are the bravest of the brave, Israel's staunch nationalists. They know it's their land and they plan to live there, despite the dangers and the hardships, during the times their government encourages them and during the times the government, at the bidding of foreigners, harasses them. More about peace and the right of settlers : http://xrl.us/bfaec3
12. RELAX!
Brad ,   USA   (12.10.09)
Throwing stones and burning around is just a normal way of expressing feelings both for Jews and Arabs! Seems that people over there forget that mouths can be independent from torches and stones. So if there will be Jewish intifada, that would not be anything new... Oh, wait, does that what haredi did in Jerusalem looks like intifada? No? Check your eyesight.
13. :: The settlers must be brought to heel
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (12.10.09)
A fine article from Lenchner and I like the usage of: “the settler intifada”. The settler enterprise is of course totally criminal and illegal. This illegal enterprise is driven by the mistaken belief that Jews, as descendants of Abraham/Isaac/Jacob, have a ‘divine right’ to settle the land of Palestine. However it should be noted that this ‘birthright’ is never verified. Just because a person is Jewish this does not necessary mean that that person is in fact a descendant of Jacob. It is well documented that over time various ethnic groups converted to Judaism (eg: the Khazars, the Himyarites, etc) thus it can said that a percentage, be it large or small, of Jews nowadays are *not* actually descendants of Jacob. Yet the settler and Israelis in general are quite willing to ignore this simple fact and continue to focus on the myth of divine birthright. According to Jewish scripture ‘god’s promise’ (eg: Genesis 26: 4; 28:13-14) *only* applies to the descendants of Jacob and *not* to converts to Judaism. I find it ironic that religious racists in Israel will gladly discriminate against non-Jews yet embrace anyone who is Jewish even if they are not actually descendants of Jacob. In short the religious concept/ideology that that only Jews/‘the descendants of Jacob’ have a divine right to live in the land of Palestine/Israel is not a concept/ideology which is held by the majority of the World population and those few who do believe in this religious myth can’t even distinguish between the true descendants of Jacob and those who converted. If these illegal settlers cannot verify their ‘divine birthright’ on which they pin their justification for illegally settling in the Palestinians WB how can we expect them to verify/distinguish between Israeli Gov laws/orders and their own concept of justice and law? In truth we can’t expect them to be rational or objective as they are blindly ideologically inclined or seriously self-ignorant, or both. These illegal settlers, be they religious or secular, must be brought to heel. They must not be allowed to run riot in the Palestinian WB as they have done so for decades and they must not be allowed to circumvent/break Israeli state law when it suits them. If the Israeli Gov tries to appease or indulge these illegal settlers it will only backfire and secular Israel will have failed, as Lenchner rightly points out, a test for the democratic rule of law.
14. To Mr. Ziv Lenchner.
FO ,   Belgium   (12.10.09)
If you accept it or not is of no importance, but the basic truth is that jews living in what you would call, I suppose, the "occupied territories", live there in full accordance with the INTERNATIONAL LAW. The resolutions voted by the League of Nations, the 24th of July 1922, and called the Mandate for Palestine, gave the Jews the IRREVOCABLE RIGHT to settle anywhere in the area between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River, a right unaltered in International Law and valid to this day due to Article 80 of the Charter of the United Nations. Left Zionism (if such a thing at all exists) rejected the League's decisions for the RECONSTITUTING of the Jewish National Home ( In clear a state ). Left was brainwashed by Bolchevism and considered a Jewish State as a "dépassé" concept. Having been opposed to the creation of a state that could have happened as decided by the League could have avoided the Shoah partially or who knows even totally.
Atilla Karagözoğlu   (12.10.09)
find them ( if they still alive) and ask them WHY WE FACING THIS, TODAY !
16. American Settlers
How many of these rogue settlers that are protesting are recent Americans immigrants? If they want to start-up, kick them back to the US. These are the real troublemakers, not to mention they put their teenage children out there to protest
17. This article is absolutely correct!
Tomer ,   Hod Hasharon, Israel   (12.10.09)
The settlers are a pain in the a$$ who think the whole country revolves round them. It's time for them to come back into Israel proper. I'm sure they can find better things to do (work maybe??) than abuse their "neighbours" and assorted government inspectors. Time to get a real life guys!.
18. First order of business
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (12.10.09)
Since neither the cabinet nor the Knesset voted to stop legal construction the freeze orders are ILLEGAL. Nobody gave Bibi the right to ban any construction whatsoever. King Bibi has no clothes. When the government of Israel starts doing it's duty - representing Israel instead of elitists and foreigners then and only then will they be listened to.
19. how about reciprocity??
eliezer ,   jerusalem   (12.10.09)
there is such a thing as reciprocity. It means that both sides must show willingness to make concessions. we Israelis have become accustomed to making concessions for the sole purpose of trying to impress the world that we are willing to make peace. Unfortunately, the world sees our concessions as an admittance of guilt. Let the Arabs give us a good will gesture that they are interested in a true peace. Let them simply open their cities, Ramallah, Nabulus, etc to welcome in Israelis in peace. Let them show the world that an Israeli who enters in peace can leave alive and in peace. Until they do this, we should not give them any concessions.
20. Hello Zvi, Israel clearly rejected the settlement freeze.
Chaim ,   Israel   (12.11.09)
Zvi, you talk nonsense. The settlement freeze is a high handed attempt to inflict on Israel something Israel resoundingly rejected in the election. There is nothing "lawless" about strong opposition to it. Had Labor and Meretz won the election, it could be assumed that Israel decided (however stupidly) to support the freeze. However, the two most pro-settlement freeze parties were decimated. Israel resoundingly rejected it. Thus the government has no right to inflict it on us.
21. to 12
lolo   (12.11.09)
intifada is an arabic word do not suit the jew
22. to 19
lolo   (12.11.09)
so you do not reache the point ... when the only way to live is to give .. i think it is not so far if it is not by your decision or un decesion or us decision it will be by enemy decision it will be not a second holaocost becouse in the first they ask only the life of jews to be dead here you can do justice ..yes you can do justice
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