Opinion
Palestinians alone again
Guy Bechor
Published: 10.12.09, 18:15
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68 Talkbacks for this article
1. To Guy,
shadoil ,   Jerusalem   (12.10.09)
Halavai that this article would be true. But thanks for the positive reinforcement anyway. It is an aspirin for a migrain.
2. the truth will set you free
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (12.10.09)
and admitting the truth about the palestinians will free everyone's minds, not to mention hopefully millions of dollars of aid that is wasted on the intransigent terrorists.
3. While I hope that Mr. Bechor has gotten
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (12.10.09)
it right, I would like to have a more thorough understanding regarding the concern on the part of European and North American nations regarding the lack of sincerity on the part of the current Palestinian authorities. That is, I'd have belief in his thesis were I to read more details of European and North American skepticism as well as facts on the ground. I'm not saying he isn't right but he writes in generalizations without pinning them down to facts. Can any Reader either dispute the author with real facts and details or, otherwise, back him up?
4. Excellent article
Eyal ,   USA   (12.10.09)
I couldn't have said it better my self. I wonder how our Arab activists Noor and BBC are taking this article? heheheh hohohoho hahahaha
5. Good article.The curtain has been pulled back&now the world
sees the demon who ,   controls terrorists.   (12.10.09)
6. the guy is wishfull thinking bull
king   (12.10.09)
his writing are so self projecting that he so much remind me of the Arab radios during 1967 war. I love when his article is publish. it gives a sense that Israel is in trouble because everything he says is a self reflection. go back and read all his articles and see what I mean.
7. #6 - ye right....heheheh - The truth hurts doesn’t it
Eyal ,   USA   (12.10.09)
8. Good article, not sure its all 100% true
David ,   Boston, USA   (12.10.09)
While I agree with alot of it, I still think the Arabs are trying to force world appeasement instead of peace and to some extent they may get part of it, but the people who suffer the most are the Arabs who refuse to make peace and receive the fruits of peace. Israel needs to stay vigilent against the terrorists and their appeasment supporters and strengthen their bonds with others in the world through facts and deeds and pointing out the deeds inthe Arab world are mostly negative and not fullfilling requirements in worldwide organizations and paper. Point out the lies in the Arab world over and over again. They have been saying them for decades. Keep Pointing them out. It will work with those who really want peace and not appeasement.
9. The author got it wrong!
Nour ,   Palestine   (12.10.09)
It is Israel that is increasingly isolated. With every passing day, you lose more friends in Europe, Americas, and Asia. The whole world has seen how your so-called 'leader' slapped a sitting US president and undermined all his efforts towards a lasting peace in the Middle East. Why? Because for you settlements and territories are a higher priority than peace for future generations. This is a short-sighted mentality that has started back-firing and you'll see what i mean very, very soon. Guy, keep your day job. This is terrible journalism devoid of any objective thought.
10. #6 Tut,tut,tut. Got a bad case of the sour grapes don't ya.
Suck up & get over ,   it.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   (12.10.09)
11. THIS ARTICLE IS FULLY TRUE AS SUCH !!!.
Arn-Orao. ,   Sweden-Orao.   (12.10.09)
Arn-Orao.
12. Nice, healthy change in this YNET posting
Cameron ,   USA   (12.10.09)
Good break from having to read Israelis howl about "US betrayal" and "knife in the back" in relation to Israel. Refreshing to take a break from the typical self-pitying tripe. About time, a piece like this. Thank you, YNET.
13. Problem with the term "Refusenik"
Essie HaKohen ,   Plantation, Florida   (12.10.09)
Call me old fashion but I connect the term refusenik with those Soviet Jews like Natan Sharanasky during the Soviet Jewry movement. I fully understand what the author in this excellent article is trying to convey, but please don't call Abbas a "refusenik." It is too lofty a term for him.
14. Alone again ?
Jojo ,   Prt Wash NY   (12.10.09)
When are they going to learn and wake up?. The palis were thrown to the wolves in '48 with bombastic dreams of riches from their "loving brothers"; again in '67 but this time with "hysteria" playing the role; and in '73 with holocaust 2 promised by their prophets ... of doom. The world knows that their capacity to learn is somewhat diminished by their dreams of conquest, fantasy, and above all by the poor choice of leadership.. They buy every ' oil snake ' that their brothers, in their largess supply them with. In their self-made misery, encouraged by the West, the UN, UNWRA, and other mecreants, they go from bad to worse in their politic, leadership, choice of friends, rubbing with the wrong crowd (country). They still manage to retain the title of the best organized beggars in the annals of history. Their per capita income from this relentless endeavor is greater than many free and not so free country; and Yet ....! All the above under the watchful eye and guidance of allah. As they say, with friend like this, who needs.......!
15. Done talking
Fadi ,   Beirut   (12.10.09)
MR Abbas needs to hold his ground and the isolation of Israel and its supporter (US ) is hurting both .. that is why MR Obama keeps praising Islam everytime you give him the microphone ..it is falling on deaf ears .. 1- peace with Syria is Over because the referandum yesterday . 2- peace with the palestinians been over ..we talked for 20 years ..and this is what we get ..no Jerusalem ,no refugees ...no this ..no that .. 3- Palestinians are not going anywhere ..so deal with the one state solution that is going to blow in your face . 4- those of you living outside Israel ..they will be melted with assimilation ,will make sure it is crowded with no jobs ..they ll stay where they are .. 5- i don't know if the writer is smart enough to comprehend all this .?? the ball is not in our court sir ,we never played ..now we are . we have been screwed since Oslo .
16. Feeling hated again?
City Buddha ,   New Town, VA   (12.10.09)
Yep, get out the white phos again, them dam Palestinians.
17. THE WEST WILL ESTABLISH STATE OF PALESTINE NO MATTER WHAT..
Atilla Karagözoğlu   (12.10.09)
18. # 9
Birdi ,   Israel   (12.10.09)
Noor dont twist the meaning of this article. The world has replied to Abbas, you Palestinians wont get what you wanted. Be thankful that your people will get aid money to rebuild Gaza.
19. Noor
Eyal ,   USA   (12.11.09)
Let me ask you a question: Why would we want to make peace with such peaceful people as yourself? heheheh... Your people continue to incite against Israel, continue to refuse to negotiate and when something good is offered to you, you want more (like Barak in 2000)? Secondly: You can't even get along among yourselves? Is Hamas going to accept the 1967 borders? Would Hamas ever recognize Israel? Would the Palestinians ever except Israel as a Jewish nation? Are the Palestinians ever going to educate the Palestinians and stop placing anti semites text in their textbook? The answer is NO and you know it. This is why Israel doesn't want peace with your people. I want you to tell me on this board that if Israel withdraws up to the 67 borders, you will accept Israel as Jewish State, stop the incitement, and promise that Hamas (your people) will accept Israel and stop the terror. Can you do that without lying? Remember that I know that you Muslims are allowed to lie to the enemy, which is something I know you are going to do anyways. heheh And also please don't tell me that Hamas can do whatever they want, but rather speak for the Palestinians as a whole. Otherwise, I will tell you that certain groups in Israel will do what they want.
20. Noor - read the article
Rebecca ,   Modiin   (12.11.09)
... the Palestinians, who failed to realize that hatred for Israel does not equal sympathy for the Palestinians. You cannot "win" this by getting people to hate us. That just creates a Loose loose situation. But so long as we loose you are happy, no matter what state you are in.
21. Hey Nour - Bechor did quit his day job, as a top journalist!
JPS ,   Efrat   (12.11.09)
Before becoming a professor at IDT, Bechor was a senior journalist at Ha'aretz and one of the most respected in his field. He is fluent in Arabic and reads the Tehran papers in Farsi. Bechor is no lightweight, and when he writes something it most likely carries years of in depth analysis behind the subject. We Israelis are always amazed at how you Palestinians prefer an interminable struggle to defeat us rather than sharing the land.
22. Column's wrong message: that Bibi's policies are working
Marcella   (12.11.09)
It may not be intentional but that's the impression one gets. However this column will certainly please Netanyahu's supporters - who suffer from a case of chronic case of Wishful Thinking, particularly where it concerns their hero's true sympathies. They still think Bibi is right wing, and that his policies will turn out to be good for Israel. The subtle message of this column seems to be that it's thanks to Netanyahu's policies that Abbas has been exposed as too recalcitrant to engage in the peace process. That's not a correct assessment. And neither is the idea that Europe is giving the Arabs of Judea and Samaria the cold shoulder. The author misinterprets the signals. Europe's support for these Arabs is growing almost as fast as their hatred for Israel. They did not support a unilateral declaration of independence because the time is not right yet. But they will, eventually. Europeans are pouring money, technical assistance, moral support, and all kinds of TLC on these Arabs. What this column aims for is to put a little seed of doubt on Jews who now realize that Netanyahu's policies are hurting Israel without accomplishing anything in exchange. They are now waking up to the fact that: 1) The Freeze has NOTHING to do with the US or Iran. 2) The Freeze has NOTHING to do with providing Abbas with an incentive to participate in talks with Israel. 3) The real purpose of the Freeze is two-fold: a) To keep Jews off-balance, busy, confused, too stressed out to focus on what Netanyahu is really doing to the country, on how he is eager to give away Golan, Judea and Samaria. b) To take the first step toward a permanent construction freeze and eventual expulsion of Jews from their homes. This Freeze is not intended to be temporary. It's permanent. If Abbas were to resume talks with Israel ten months from now, the government will tell Jews that he cannot cancel the Freeze at such a crucial moment because it would upset the prospects for peace. You get the idea. Sorry, Mr Bechor. Netanyahu's policies are not working for Israel. But they are working very well for the Arabs, though. Their housing construction goes on unimpeded. And they are loved more than ever by the Europeans. Just ask them.
23. The Arabs of Judea and Samaria are thriving
Marcella   (12.11.09)
Don't be fooled into thinking that it's all about peace talks. The peace talks - or the refusal by Abbas to hold peace talks - is nothing but a side show. The truth is that while Israelis talk about the talks and the Freeze and Abbas' threats to declare independence, Palestine is being built and prepared for independence. Your leaders are being disingenuous. They are actively participating behind your backs in this process of building Palestine, while the Jews are not even allowed to build a chicken coop. Tom Gross wrote an article about the glowing progress in the "occupied" territories. A PROMISING, INDEPENDENT PALESTINE IS QUIETLY BEING DEVELOPED WITH ISRAELI ASSISTANCE Excerpts: It is difficult to turn on a TV or radio or pick up a newspaper these days, without finding some pundit or other deploring the dismal prospects for Israeli-Palestinian peace or the dreadful living conditions of the Palestinians. In fact nothing could be further from the truth. I had spent that day in the West Bank’s largest city, Nablus. The city is bursting with energy, life and signs of prosperity, in a way I have not previously seen in many years of covering the region. Wandering around downtown Nablus the shops and restaurants I saw were full. There were plenty of expensive cars on the streets. Indeed I counted considerably more BMWs and Mercedes than I’ve seen, for example, in downtown Jerusalem or Tel Aviv. And perhaps most importantly of all, we had driven from Jerusalem to Nablus without going through any Israeli checkpoints. The government of Benjamin Netanyahu has removed them all since the Israeli security services (with the encouragement and support of President George W. Bush) were allowed, over recent years, to crush the intifada, restore security to the West Bank and set up the conditions for the economic boom that is now occurring. (There was one border post on the return leg of the journey, on the outskirts of Jerusalem, but the young female guard just waved me and the two Palestinians I was traveling with, through.) A new Palestinian city, Ruwabi, is to be built soon north of Ramallah. Two weeks ago, the Jewish National Fund, an Israeli charity, helped plant 3,000 tree seedlings for a forested area the Palestinian planners say they would like to develop on the edge of the new city. Israeli experts are also helping the Palestinians plan public parks and other civic amenities
24. Good questions, Eyal:
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (12.11.09)
I doubt that Nour will ever engage in a discussion as broad as you requested, however. He never does. He just makes statements, mostly angry, and keeps referring to a set of UN proclamations without providing the context. Unfortunately, I think he uses this board as a means of ridding himself of all his stresses. A psycho-linguistic analysis indicates that he resides in England, not in the mideast, and his own relationship with Palestinians appears to be very tenuous. It seems to be a romanticized issue with him. I honestly wish that we had an intelligent pro-Palestinian on this board who understands Palestinians in depth and could provide us with their perceptions of the continual conflict between us. I have been active on this board for over two years now and have never witnessed anyone representing Palestinians who could enlighten us although there have been dozens of Jewish Israelis who educate us within the Israeli context. As a result of the lacunae, I, myself, have tried to view the conflict from the perspective of the Palestinian population. As noted, you won't get that from "Nour" nor, of course, from "Matty Groves", nor Mike Hess/Kandy Ringer of BBSNews nor, for that matter, from the occasional posts of "Shlomo Kamra". What we lack are credible posters who perceive the conflict from the Palestinian viewpoint and who are able to communicate their views and therefore educate us. I would suggest, furthermore, for all Readers who wish to get an enlightened education in Islamic history and current political thought to read Tarek Fatah's outstanding book, "Chasing A Mirage".
25. To: No. 15
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.11.09)
Six wars -- all started by the Arabs and won by Israel. Sixty-one plus years of terror -- what has that achieved for the Arabs? Three rejected offers which would have created an independent Palestinian state. You people are your own worst enemies. Sorry. Quit whining about it; you have sown the wind; now you must reap the whirlwind. The fact of the matter is, you are such a fractious lot, you cannot even agree on the time of day, let alone how to organize and effectively manage a nation. Your leadership has used funds -- billions of dollars and billions of euros -- intended to improve the lives of Palestinian Arabs and to attract investment in areas controlled by the Palestine Authority to purchase lavish second and third homes in Europe and pad already hefty offshore bank accounts. You will never amount to anything. You will never have an independent Palestinian state. You have spent all your collective energies trying to dislodge Israel and that WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Isn't it high time that the Palestinian people accept the fact that they are the architects of their own misery? Isn't it time they accept historical fact and the consequences of their own poor choices, and move on? Israel is here to stay. All your efforts to eliminate Israel has created nothing but misery for you. The world is really sick and tired of the Palestinians. It is time you faced reality instead of burying yourselves in a bleak fantasy -- and move on. You have rejected each and every one. No one is interested in offering you anything. Your opportunities have passed you by. Look at where your "struggle" has gotten you. You people missed the boat LONG ago. It isn't coming back.
26. To: Cameron at No. 12
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.11.09)
That is not fair. It is the Palestinian Arabs who whine and try to sell the world on an imagined history. The fact of the matter is that they have made a whole series of poor choices, and followed up with an even larger series of worse choices. High time the world recognized their nonsense for what it is. Fear of terror has for far too long governed the international community's approach to the Palestinian Arabs -- copious kowtowing. These are not "diplomats," these are not an "oppressed people" -- these are terrorists who have never missed a single opportunity to miss an opportunity. Victims of their own making. But what is wrong with acknowledging the betrayal by the United States on quite a few occasions of its only dependable ally in the Middle East? You think that Saudi Arabia and Egypt, with whom the United States enjoys close ties, constitute dependable allies? One a primitive, medieval state and the other a repressive and wholly corrupt regime. With "friends" like that, Cameron, the United States does not need an enemy.
27. Abbas and Fayyad
MEC ,   Calgary, Canada   (12.11.09)
Abbas and Fayyad are finished. They are merely caretakers now. No peace settlement will be worked out with them in charge. Any chance for that has been lost over the past year. They no longer have the credibility required to pull together a settlement. We now have to wait for the emergence of the new Palestinian leadership and to see how the Hamas/Fatah situation develops. Interesting times ahead.
28. Nour, it's as if the writer missed the EU decision...
BBSNews ,   Charlotte, NC   (12.11.09)
...that has Israel all up in arms, or the labeling of products from the colonies in Britain fast food joints and elsewhere. This article is pure mental masturbation as comforting fodder to a public who apparently cannot be expected to read news outside of Israel. The EU resolution really got Israel's ire up with statement like these: "The European Union will not recognise any changes to the pre-1967 borders including with regard to Jerusalem, other than those agreed by the parties ... The Council recalls that it has never recognised the annexation of East Jerusalem. If there is to be a genuine peace, a way must be found through negotiations to resolve the status of Jerusalem as the future capital of two states." Hmmm, East Jerusalem as capital of Palestine. CHECK. On Gaza: "Gravely concerned about the situation in Gaza, the Council urges the full implementation of UNSCR 1860 and the full respect of international humanitarian law. In this context, the continued policy of closure is unacceptable and politically counterproductive." End the illegal siege. CHECK.
29. #24 Good one
Nour ,   Palestine   (12.11.09)
"I doubt that Nour will ever engage in a discussion as broad as you requested, however. He never does. He just makes statements, mostly angry, and keeps referring to a set of UN proclamations without providing the context. Unfortunately, I think he uses this board as a means of ridding himself of all his stresses. A psycho-linguistic analysis indicates that he resides in England, not in the mideast, and his own relationship with Palestinians appears to be very tenuous. It seems to be a romanticized issue with him. I honestly wish that we had an intelligent pro-Palestinian on this board who understands Palestinians in depth and could provide us with their perceptions of the continual conflict between us." LMAO - You got everything wrong - as usual! Proud Palestinian here who proudly lives in the Middle East. But thanks for the entertaining little figments of imagination. By the way - my past attempts to pass your 'civilized and entlightning' have failed for the simple fact that 99.9% of TB's here are not only downright racist but also deny the very existence of Palestinians as a people! My dear there's no need to touch upon every point. For us it's very simple: we have human and political rights that have been denied to us as a result of the Zionist movement and past colonial dictate. We will not rest until we get them, either through dialogue (negotiations) and I think that would be miraculous since hostage can't negotiate with a kidnapper- or through civil and violent struggle, which is more likely. Does that clear up the fog for you?
30. Marcella, right or wrong, you are two
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (12.11.09)
breaths of fresh air, bringing new viewpoints into the discussion and tying your viewpoints to facts on the ground. You also think "outside the box" in an intelligent way which I always appreciate. My son-in-law, who resides in Tekoa (over the Green Line) says that Palestinians appear to live very well, having many parties with plenteous food to eat and lots of work on construction of Jewish homes. Whereas Jews have a hard time finding jobs, Palestinian Arabs can work for much less and do it because they do not have to pay taxes and all goods cost less beyond the Green Line. You make the same assertion as my son-in-law and quote a journalist, Tom Gross, to that effect. I will be sure to google him. The idea of Palestinians (exempting Gazans) as poverty stricken victims appears to be just a useful myth. As to Netanyahu's perfidiousness, it's an interesting idea. He is as sly as they come. I seriously doubt, however, that we will ever give up the Golan, as you have suggested, as it is too risky. Have you ever been up there? If so, you will understand. As to expelling all the settlers from the Yishuvs in Samaria and Judea, I also doubt that. Rather, I think an accomodation will have to be made. There are too many of them and, as well, the people who populate the yishuvs are amongst the most patriotic and committed Israelis. I am all for an independent state of "Palestine" and I think economic independence and economic flourishing is one of the "organic" steps which needs to occur in order for this to happen. Regulations and treaties need to come later. This principle is, incidentally, in accord with Bibi's previous thinking on the matter. Moderate "Palestinians" require something concrete to lose (wealth and health) in order to combat the virulence of Hamas principles and supporters. I forsee (in my dreams) two independent states (excluding Gaza) both of which will eventually find it to their respective advantages to trade with one another, to join forces on such matters as water retention and purification and on other environmental matters and to make better use of the enormous potential of regional tourism. Thanks again, Marcella, for your interesting posts.
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