Opinion
We need to fight
Michael Fenenbock
Published: 15.12.09, 00:51
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
52 Talkbacks for this article
31. #2 I will add something to the list:
Keren ,   IL-BR   (12.15.09)
CLOSE IKEA IN ISRAEL!!!! Israel can make a much ,much better superstore than that thing,I have no doubts.
32. To Alexander - Tel Aviv
Intedi Nensak ,   Stockholm, Sweden   (12.15.09)
Assuming you are correct, that most of us Swedes are jew hating ogres (i would dispute that, but that's beside the point) exactly what do you think you can do about it? You go on and on about how you should turn the world against us and destroy our economy. I hate to break it to you but you're not really in a position to make threats. Israel is not liked enough around to world to be able to persuade a single country to turn against us. Like it or not, that's just the reality of the situation. That a semi-poor country such as Israel could affect Sweden in any way at all is laughable, you got nothing to envy, your beloved tech industry consist of foreign companies outsourcing parts of the work to a low cost country. Sweden export large amounts of military equipment to Israel aswell, and since you're constantly at war, i'd say you have more to lose than we do if the supply was cut off. Israel can boycott Sweden for all we care. We wouldn't even notice. You may be able to throw your weight around your weak and impoverished arab neighbours, but as far as Europe is concerned you're as important as mosquito piss in the mighty Mississippi.
33. #30 I am sure now But
Crazy _racing ,   Daytona beach   (12.15.09)
But for sake of freedom of speech and democracy we should insist on our rights to be heard and to shout it out louder then they expect.
34. 32 Have you released already?Feeling better?
Keren ,   IL-BR   (12.15.09)
If Israel would an be impoverish country,what it isn´t,the reason would the enemies like you, who make it difficult for us to go on. Israel has strived to survive and progress and it will,despite your wishes that not. We have a project as Jews,whether you like it or not and we will succssed,whether you like it or not.Sooner or later.It does not matter when , it will be completly accomplished AND your gentiles souls will be also redimed,what you,unfortunately,can not accomplish without the Chosen of G-d. Chosen for what,you may ask.I answer:Chosen to redime you!!! Scream,scream,but you know what I say is the Truth,and the sooner you undertand that you can not go against the Superior of all and against us Jews,the best for you.
35. :: Intedi - #32
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (12.15.09)
. Oh don't be to sure; if Israel gets such heavyweights like Micronesia and the Marshalls behind it there is no knowing what might happen!?!? :)
36. your tacticts
Robert ,   USA   (12.15.09)
No wonder that Israel is the least liked country on earth and it is constant for the past few years.. Hasbara's tactics is to fight with offensive language, racist remarks and primitive cyber bulling. Racist propaganda instead of truth will never win since it's only you who believe in it.
37. To Keren
Intedi Nensak ,   Stockholm, Sweden   (12.15.09)
I don't recall that i said anything about wishing Israel would not survive and progress. Please point out where i have said that, or kindly shut up about it. Also, your rants about being a chosen people that us gentiles should obey, shows that you are a supremacist bigot. In theory you should get along fine with the wahhabis in Saudi Arabia, since you share so much of the same values.
38. To David nr 7
Alexander ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (12.16.09)
As you are a Jew you should be on our side. We are not conquering anyone-we just claim lordship over what is rightfully ours-our ancestral homeland. And if Arabs are newcomers, which they are, and as they never owned the land, and as only we Jews have legal and historical, national and moral ties to the land of Israel, and as we owned and still own the land, only we are the owners. If history is unimportant to you, then it would not matter to you or anyone else who actually owns it. But the difference is that we recognize the Arab states and their capital and their short and superficial history whereas Arabs have never recognized our right to exist. As a Jew you should stand on our side. There is word for you: TRAITOR . And TRAITORS belong either in jail or exile but not here. The world can shove their opinions up in their behind-freedom means to govern ourselves and if we are supposed to live according to the "world's" will, we are not free, and even the world understands that sovereignty/independence is almost holy, except of course for Jewish independence, which is ignored by much of a racist world that treats Israel with a double standard. Then you should also bear in mind that interfering with our domestic, internal and national affairs is a violation of International law, so in effect justice and International law has been hijacked by anti-Semites, terrorists and despots that recoginze neither democracy nor International Law. Third, Israel has offered the Arabs the very same package deal time after time, and yet Arabs declined. And we are not interfering with the status of Stockholm, but the Swedes think they have the right to interfer with our internal affairs. That means they are patronizing racist Jew haters that don't respect the will of the Israeli people and Israeli sovereignty/independence. Fourth, International Law does not say that we are "occupying the land" - it merely says that the land is disputed. Jordan has no claims on Judea/Samaria and Egypt has no claims on Gaza, Israel has peace with both, no "Palestine" or "Palestinians" have existed in recorded human history, so it begs to question if this "international standpoint" really pays attention to historical rights of the Jews, historical facts of Jews(being the natives of Israel) and Arabs, (newcomers in the Middle East, originating from the southwestern corner of the Arabian Peninsula) and International Law. The Swedish proposal or blackmail is simply a political decision. What the "majority" thinks is irrelevant, because Israel is a sovereign/independent state. otherwise we have complete anarchy in this world if the "majority" of the world's population thinks it can impose a wild west in the world where they can in an arbitrary manner interfer with the lives of free men, women and children and telling them what to do! It is outrageous! Right and wrong is about the quality of men-not popularity that comes and goes.
39. using truth as a weapon
solemnman ,   israel   (12.16.09)
An aggressive propaganda campaign should be launched against our enemies using unembelished truth .We need only tell the truth-a truth which could not be blacker.
40. Ooops...
Ingemar ,   Stockholm, Sweden   (12.17.09)
There was a time when the Americans sent groups under cover to prevent the commies to win the elections in South America. Now US Citizens declare themselves willing to fight a right-wing governement and thereby help the socialists win and the communists to get into the governement 2010. Are you really sure you have thought this over, Mr Fenenbock? I rest my case.
41. This is both funny and sad
Benny ,   Stockholm Sweden   (12.17.09)
It's ridicoulosly self centered to believe that Israel could become an issue in any european election. If Israel want's to polish its image in the eyes of europeans they need to listen to critsim, take it seriously and dare I say, consider shifting some policies. People in europe are generally not supid, nor anti-semites. If anything makes jewish life harder in Europe it's this kind of autistic insensitveness towards other peoples outlook. As a jew in Sweden the last thing i could use right now is this agressive and single minded rethoric coming from israel. Fenenbock knows absolutely nothing of swedish poitics or society. Also he spells Fredrik Reinfeldt the wrong way.
42. Scandinavia - the best place in the world
Oz ,   Sweden   (12.17.09)
Scandinavians are not anti-semite. That is a myth spread by the Israeli media - especially the Jerusalem Post. The Jewish community is actually doing very well here which is not strange since we are the most wealthy and tolerable society in the world.
43. Another one bites the dust
Gertkvist ,   Stockholm, Sweden   (12.17.09)
Fenenbock has zero understanding of the Swedish political landscape, culture and elections. If a consultant approached me with such an stupid idea I'd bill him for wasting my time. A) The social democratic opposition has a history of cuddling with the palestinians, condemning Israel and nowadays aiming to get the "muslim vote" in Sweden. If Fenenbocks plan succeded the results would be a more anti-Israeli Swedish government, not less. B) The american system with "first past the post" does not exist in Sweden. Swedes vote for party lists, composed by the political parties in a very closed process (that by now is fairly completed). Fenenbocks long-time experience as a political consultant is worth less than an IKEA bookshelf in an Swedish election. C) The response from the Swedish citizens would probably be "What the heck? Don't you have elections of your own to run?" and a surge of votes to whoever the Fenenbock campaign is against.
44. Bursting the Swedes' bubble
Gábor Fränkl ,   Budapest, Hungary   (12.18.09)
Alexander, I agree with your every sentiment and feelings, but think that your arguments, hmm, are bit unsophisticated. We as Jews have better, what better, fireproof arguments to humiliate Sweden's arrogance. How many of these posting from Sweden know that the Israeli chief of Staff had an extrmely cordial visit in India, doing his best to convince them to opt for the Lockheed Martin pursuit planes instead of the pathetic, failure-the-world-over "Grippen" crocks? Just right in time when the Swedish gov't did all its best to alienate Jerusalem. How many armies actually bought the Grippens so far? 2 or 3? I rest my case. Alexander and the others: use your brains if you REALLY want to humiliate our enemies, like the Swedes! (Please publish my comment!)
45. Anonther another one bites the dust
Gertkvist ,   Stockholm, Sweden   (12.18.09)
Gabor, you have just illustrated what I said in my previous comment: so many commentators that lack even the most basic understanding of Sweden. If Israeli pressure stops any export of Gripen we would thank you - since all export of Gripen so far have been paid by the Swedish taxpayers. We Swedes would be richer if you tried and succeeded. But Israel would meet a far more negative government that maybe invited Hamas for a top meeting i Stockholm. The self-mutilating politics of the Middel East seems to have spread to Israel. Stupidy rules ...
46. This is why Israel is the laught of the world
Joakim ,   Sundbyberg, Sweden   (12.18.09)
How can anyone be so stupid to think that they will make Israel´s politics the politics of swedish people? I think Bildt and Reinfeldt would welcome foreign interventions in the Swedish debate. Suddenly they would have massive support from all swedes and most europeans. Isarel is really the veiners of the world, they do nothing wrong and everybody critizising Israel is anti-semites. Israel can do one thing to regain respect in europe, work to create a viable 2 state solution....!!!
47. Gertkvist - Response
Gábor Fränkl   (12.18.09)
I would be extremely happy then (next Swedish gov't inviting Hamas) - as I suppose the Israeli gov't and many Israelis too - cause Sweden in that case would underwrite its own death sentence. Why? Don't you think that EVEN the now left-wing US admin. would not cast a derisive eye on you as would Canada, Australia and al the decent European nations? Why do you think the current Norwegian gov't is fighting tooth and nail against the campaign going on right now against it in another, not name it here, Israeli paper of international reach and readership? Why are they fighting so hard against their delegitimization by certain Israeli circles going as far as sending long Right of Reply pieces??? Sweden by inviting Hamas would not only be the laughing stock of the world but a pariah among the enlightened nations. So yes, I would definitely suggest to go ahead with this plan!
48. Fenenbock is deluded, so are most posters here
Empath ,   USA   (12.19.09)
C'mon Israel, is this the best you can do ? Hasbara fails, so now you are going to start some hare-brained attempt at infuencing the elections in Sweden. Here's news for you Israel. You don't have any friends, nobody needs your products, anything you do worsens the situation, your politics has been hijacked by American zionists that are utterly deluded about most European issues and finally, Israeli media and Israeli public debate is a joke. How the h-ll does one even begin to talk with people who actually believe that god is on their side. What you need to do is kick your own fanatics out and start acting like responsible adults.
49. #31 Come back when you actually start making furniture [EOM]
Oscar ,   Sweden   (12.19.09)
50. #40 You don't know what antisemitism is.
Adam ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (12.22.09)
51. Re:We need to fight
Victor Ollén ,   London, Uk   (01.17.10)
Dear Mr Fenenbock, I understand your background of wanting to fight, but often it is wise to choose your fights. In some cases because you do not want to fight a fight that can not be won, in this case because you find yourself in a lose-lose situation. If you think the current government with Reinfeldt as PM and Bildt (Sweden's PM between 91-94, EU & UN Balkan peace negotiator and expert 95-01, Bildeberg member) as a FM keep an anti Israeli political agenda, it is nothing compared to the alternative, which all Swedish friends of Israel know well. With a bit of research, you will find this to be true. Also, I have to add that if your Hasbara does not have an affect on the general public, maybe it is because you need to rethink it. To use your own phrasing; if no one is buying your product, maybe you need to write it off and invest in a new product. The future can be bright, I am sure of it. Kind Regards, Victor Ollén
52. Re: Soleman
Victor Ollén ,   London, Uk   (01.17.10)
Maybe you can also remember Raul Wallenberg who saved a hell of a lot more people than Schindler, and died for his efforts. maybe you can also remember that Sweden accepted more jews than any other European county during the war. Yes, Sweden profited from not fighting, just like the Israelis profited by helped the talibans during the Afghan-Soviet war. As you may remember, WW2 was about more the jews, it was about a crazy man's desire to rule Europe. Sweden was just acting according to a philosophy that has kept it from war since 1809, for better or worse.
Previous talkbacks
Back to article