Opinion
On brink of religious war?
Dan Caspi
Published: 15.12.09, 12:08
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1. The torching of the mosques is Arab work!!!!
Shalom   (12.15.09)
Who else but Arabs would do that? On the other hand, Israel is the stronghold of anti-Semitism by self-hating Jews who are embarrassed of their Judaism, including the writer of this article. These secular Jews who are afire against religious Jews in general and chareidim in particular are the ones prompting anti-Semitism to be elevated worldwide.
2. Israel's Construction Freeze policy is nothing but weakness
Shalom   (12.15.09)
run by spineless leaders, gives the US President, Hussein Obama, and the European country the boldness to command what Israel should or should not do in her own country. It's all Israel's fault as the Lubavitcher Rebbe said. Just talking about giving away territory of ANY part of its country is dangerous for its existence. Oh, how right he was! If Israel were to destroy its enemies like other countries instead of caving in to the demands of those that want to see Israel off the map, the nations would respect them and anti-Semitism would be subdued. As long as Israel is ruled by cowardly feckless weaklings, foreign countries have the power to dictate their policies.
3. #2 Would love to come to your 5th birthday party
Avi ,   Israel   (12.15.09)
have you thought about what you would like to do when you grow up?
4. Bring it on seperate state and religion now
Avi ,   Israel   (12.15.09)
As a democratic country we are being dictated to by the ultra orthdox who have long gone corssed the red line, imposing their life style on the majority while living off our backs. The fanatical reigious have incited hatred and violence not only to their fellow jews but also to pople of other religions. Its time to sort them out once and for all. I for one cant wait for the civil war to begin and will gladly fight for democracy and freedom of religious coercion and we will remove this cancer from our society.
5. article of Pr Caspi
Pereire ,   Brussels Belgium   (12.15.09)
one day perhaps one of this creasy religious people will succeed to send a missile and destroy the Al Aksa Coumpound ..
6. Torching of mosque THERE IS NO PROOF WHO DID IT
Sharona ,   Jerusalem Israel   (12.15.09)
This whole article is based on the assumption that Jews torched the mosque. There is not yet a single shred of proof that this is the case. Jews should be considered innocent until proven guilty. Where was Caspi's outrage over the destruction of the Tomb of Yoseph and the murder of the Israeli soldier by the Palestinians as they refused to allow medics to attend to him and evacuate him. NOBODY was hurt here not to mention NOBODY died. What about the fanatical lefties trying to incite Israeli youth to commit a crime by draft-dodging. Where is the outrage against the left???
7. Let's put things in perspective.
Steve   (12.15.09)
The author wrote: "Since time immemorial religious wars were the cruelest and most destructive of all global wars." Not to minimize the cruelty and the destruction of religious wars but what of the cost of secular and pagan ideologies like atheistic Communism, Fascism and Nazism? Tens, perhaps hundreds of millions died as a result of the pagan ideology of Nazism. How many Jews have been murdered as the result of the "pragmatic," misguided, highly secularized "peace" process, Israel's leaders have been and are engaged. How many more innocent Jews will be murdered as the a result of the pragmatic ideal of territorial compromise or the "notion of partitioning the land?"
8. Crispy Mosque another Muslim tactic
Dan ,   Titusville, FL   (12.15.09)
Throughout the Islamic world Muslims have embarked on a policy of "Crispy Mosques" where the Muslims burn or blow up Mosques and then, playing the "innocent" victim, call for the world to help them. This time they are getting the same reaction from "world opinion" that Jews have historically received. We can expect Crispy Mosques to start appearing in Switzerland, Germany and the United States.
9. The Arabs will lose a religious war with us
Yitz   (12.15.09)
Just as they would lose any other kind. What it would do though is enable us to expel them from our midst- just as they have wanted to do to us for decades. So if they insist, let's get it on.
10. WHAT ARROGANCE
Sharona ,   Jerusalem Israel   (12.15.09)
The public OFTEN knows more and better than the politicians, leaders or not. This is elitist leftist crap! Trashing of IDF officers is just the left's latest crusade against the State. Sorry but when it comes to Muslims the MAJORITY are fanatics.
11. SURE - IT IS GODS TIME - AND THE OTHER ONES TO !!!.
Arn-Orao. ,   Sweden-Srbia.   (12.15.09)
After all, no monotheistic religion can bear the faithful of another religion. When faith is burning in one’s bones, logic and common sense grow silent. NOT AT ALL - THE TRUTH CAN ONLY BE ONE, AND CAN NOT BE EQUAL WITH THE LIE AND HALFTHRUTHS. A growing wave of “Messiah Now” has crossed the Green Line and is now threatening to sweep the entire Jewish public. COMMENT - Zechariah 14 1 Behold, a day of Jehovah cometh, when thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall Jehovah go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east THE MESSIA WILL NOT COME UNTILL THE 3rd WORLD WAR, RECORDED IN HESEKIEL CHAPTER 38-39. The real leadership test requires resourcefulness in order to restrain religious aspirations on both sides, isolate the fanatical and active minority, and shift the management of the conflict vis-à-vis the Arab world back to a pragmatic and rational approach. JEHOVAH HAS NO PRAGMATIC AND RATIONAL APPROACH, BECAUSE HE IS OMNISCIENT AND HIS TRUTHS ARE THE TRUTH. HUMAN RATIONAL PRAGMATISM, WILL ONLY LEAD TO SUFFERING UNDER THE EVIL ONE, WHO TRY TO FOOL MANKIND WITH JUST THAT. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWSATpx7uzk Arn-Orao.
12. Comment
Mohammad ,   Jordan   (12.15.09)
I think that religion (as an absolute faith) very often leads down a ruinous path. Also dismissing reason as the correct basis on which to formulate our beliefs, in favour of ‘faith’ leads to division between peoples. I agree with the author that we need wise and real leadership to restrain religious aspiration on both sides. Manipulating religion by politicians is a very dangerous game and has devastating consequences on humanity. Afghanstan, Iraq, Pakistan, Iran, and Hamas are all good examples to learn from.
13. War is coming but likely not until US troops leave ME
Bloodyscot ,   Dallas, Texas   (12.15.09)
While US troops are in Iraq and Afghanistan, a major war is unlikely but when they leave all bets are off. The problem for Israel is that the long the war is put off the stronger the Muslim will be. Any war in next 5yrs Israel will win but if war delayed longer, then victory could be in question. If both sides are more equal then a long war of attrition is more likely, which would be hard for Israel to lose large numbers of troops and hope to win, if Israel lost 1M troops then that is the end of Israel army but Muslims could lost even more and keep fighting. The 1948 war never truly ended just a cease fire was called.
14. Get Real
Norman Gellman ,   Rehovot   (12.15.09)
Those who think that Israel can defy the whole world are having a pipe dream. We have nether the resources or money to stand completely alone. Religious people must remember that G-d helps those who help themselves. The extreme right wing activists are behaving like a bunch of hooligans. They are making it easy for Israel’s enemy’s to recruit others by pointing to the behavior of the extreme right. In a way, they are acting like children in kindergarten. Sure, some of their actions make Bibi look like a strong man to face such dissention at home. The complete Israel as described in the Torah never existed. In order to get even close to any peace these extremists must become mature and behave like adults not spoiled children
15. :: Sharona - #6
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (12.15.09)
You should really watch more episodes of CSI. All ‘evidence’ at the scene points to the illegal settlers and it also fits their MO. The illegal settlers have for decades committed acts of terror against the Palestinian civilians in the WB. They have attacked and assaulted helpless farmers, they have run riot in Palestinian towns and villages torching and destroying Palestinian property, they have set fields of crops ablaze and decimated olive groves. The illegal settlers themselves have gone on the record and stated quite clearly that they will attack Palestinians under the guise of ‘Operation Price Tag’ in response to the Israeli Gov settlement freeze. Sharona I think that you do not understand the settler mindset so I’ll put this very simply: If the illegal settlers can regularly attack young Palestinian children as they travel to and from school they are quite capable of torching a mosque or worse. You see the illegal settlers are filled with hate and religious racism and they direct this vile mentality toward innocent Palestinians. How does this negate the seriousness of the hate crime? Are you saying that it is okay to torch a place of worship as long as nobody is injured or dies?!
16. Good morning Professor!!!
manny ,   jerusalem   (12.15.09)
Just now is that you found out that all this war is about Religion???
17. Not passing the test of time, reason or decency
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim,   (12.15.09)
B"H Prof. Caspi seems to be forgetting that it is precisely Jewish values and what he calls Jewish religious fanaticism that allowed us not only to survive history (whereas his Marxist-Leninist ideas rose and fell within the past one-hundred years, producing hundreds of millions of violent deaths in the process), but also to be where we are today, in our G-d given Holy Land, instead of being in the middle of Africa maybe. So, I’m sorry to say, Prof. Caspi’s record is not a good record and his reasoning is not a good reasoning either. G-d made the Jewish people different from every other nation and gave us a specific purpose. So, the "common sense" he is referring to maybe a common sense for the nations, for the Germans, for the French, for the British, for the Americans, etc. but it is utter common nonsense for us, Jews. To liberate ourselves from our heritage, as he suggests, is dangerous for us. That is why we must follow our Jewish-specific heritage and destiny! You might want to call it Torah. Maybe Prof. Caspi is an expert on how to communicate, as he teaches at Ben-Gurion University’s Department of Communication Studies. Maybe what he should focus his attention on however is the message itself, on what one communicates: we should put a huge warning sticker on this professor’s writing, the way we do with cigarettes: “This message is anti-Jewish and as such represent a danger to the survival of the Jewish people”. His poisonous philosophy, that didn't pass the test of time, nor that of reason or decency, should not be allowed to propagate to the fresh and vulnerable minds of our youth. So yes, I am concerned for the souls of the students under the influence of this professor and the ones like him.
18. #2 Absolutely correct
Norman   (12.15.09)
Only talking of giving up land has caused us many death and injuries. There is no such thing as palestinians they never had a home land in Israel, their place is in Jordon. Regarding the professors words that people are moving to religion could be that people are starting to realise that without G-D there would be no Israel and its victories. People are seeing the futility and valuless lkives of the seculair so they are turning to torah values. And last but not least we are according to many Rabbis right before our true redemption thru Moshiach so G-D in his great mercy is turning our hearts thru many schemes to turn to Torah.
19. Typical of left-wing professors to think only they "get it"
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, USA   (12.15.09)
Caspi is wrong if he thinks the Arabs' long war against the Jews had nothing to do with religion. Criticize the hesder soldiers as you will, but unlike those secular leftists from Tel Aviv or the university bubbles, at least they know what they're fighting for. Moreover, as Israel's eminent game theorist (and Nobel laureate) Robert Aumann has pointed out, in a confrontation with those fighting a war for the "sacred", those who have no red lines - like Israel's seculars - are always at a disadvantage.
20. TALKBACK NUMBER 13.
Arn-Orao. ,   Sweden-Orao.   (12.15.09)
TO THE CONTRARY - THE US HAS NO MORE TROOPS TO USE, THOSE IN IRAK AND AFGHANISTAN ARE BOUND THERE, AND CAN NOT BE USED AGAINST NEITHER IRAN NOR SYRIA. IT IS THE OTHER WAY AROUND FROM WHAT YOU THINK I THINK, THE WAR WILL COME WHEN THE US IS STUCK IN IRAK AND AFHGANISTAN. Arn-Orao.
21. Rabid Zionist Wackos Started It All
Zionists Are Morons ,   Zion, zionazistan   (12.15.09)
Rip off and murder of native people will never secure the Jewish people, ever! A land grab, is land grab, is a land grab, Zionist , racist, war criminals created this mess, and will pay for its clean up sooner or later.
22. Smear Tactics=Propaganda; Generalizing is a Logical Fallacy
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (12.15.09)
3rd attempt If a person has brain cancer, who would insist they ignore the brain cancer and fix it all up by pretending there is no brain cancer and having a tooth drilled instead? Yet, while most everyone agrees that "faith" is the problem, "seculars" ask everyone to ignore the problem--religion--and divert your focus to fixing "democracy" instead. That is at once laughable, asinine and tragic. There is no excuse for your non sequitur and deliberately inflammatory charge that "Israel… with a more religious IDF is confidently heading towards a regional religious war." Note your effect: Avi is eager to kill fellow Jews he views as a "cancer." Basing an appeal to logical fallacies in an attempt to smear conservative intellectuals as "logic and common sense grow[ing] silent" is self-contradicting--and reckless. It is dangerously irresponsible coming from a university professor who knows better and we must give a professor of communications credit for having carefully calculated and crafted his communication for exactly that effect. If I were to characterize the entire liberal and progressive world as Molotov-cocktail lobbing, car-burning leftist street rioters we see on nightly news, I'm sure the professor would take great umbrage. Yet, in their lofty self-image, their thimble minds view all religious as the fanatics who throw feces and spit on passers-by. The professor's assertions regarding "bear[ing] the faithful of another religion," while empirically intuitive, bears no relation to logical analysis. Enlightened of every religion recognize that hearts can, and must, be won to truth exclusively through intelligent debate; a point learned in past centuries by Judaism and Christianity and now, inevitably, being learned by Islam. There is an undercurrent that lies outside of communications and has entirely escaped the communications professor's vision: there are also a number of similarities between the religious-antireligious conflicts in the Arab world--and even the American experience--and the current Israeli situation. For one thing, unlike Hollywood and most of the western world's amoral ruling elite bohemians, ordinary people in all three communities are increasingly disgusted by "anarchic-hedonism-and-to-hell-with-morality" attitudes and political agendas of "progressives" like Prof. Caspi and "secular" politicians. Arabs, Americans and Israelis are increasingly concerned about family values, rejecting the consignment of their children to an "emancipated" New Sodom of godless atheists and unending erosion of moral values. Seculars offer us nothing but immorality and hedonism wrapped in glittery foil. First of all, this antireligious "secular" versus religious abrading is global, including the West and Europe; not limited to Arab countries and Israel. The answer lies not in Hollywood dreamweavers peddling anarchistic, moral-less utopia of the Beatles but in a scholarly debate of religious scholars willing to accommodate to reality: historical documentation and logic. R' Metzger's gesture to the Arabs of Yasuf--religious leaders pursuing intellectual rapprochement--is the only realistic formula for peace. When I discovered that the Christianity I was raised in was riddled with contradictions I was free to choose the one that accords with historical documentation and logic: Torah. Generalizing (!) dati Jews as "logic and common sense grow[n] silent" is illogical, false, unscholarly, offensive and bigoted. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer (& Orthodox Jew) Advocate for Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming All Torah-reverers (Jews & non-Jews) www.netzarim.co.il
23. # 22 Paqid
Sagi   (12.15.09)
Your monologue is,per se,interesting, but to my mind is not relevant to the context and intentions of the author. I intend to be both concise and precise and to state in no uncertain terms that religion and "God" were invented by Man. This to me is axiomatic. Furthermore, no single factor in the history of Mankind has caused death and destruction to the extent that religion has done. Again axiomatic. "The opiate of the masses", said Marx. "Useful" said Seneca. I have maintained for most of my adult life that religion, when taken to extremes, is a psychotic state of mind that can easily become dangerous and contagious. There are countless examples of this throughout history and recently Ramachandaran of Stanford has clinically provided the proof of this. I presume you are familiar with him but if not I shall be delighted to give you details. I mean you no ill will and my intention is dialogue and not diatribe.
24. To Paqid #22
Mohammad ,   Jordan   (12.15.09)
There are plenty of generalizing in your talkback: 1- "while most everyone agrees that "faith" is the problem, "seculars" ask everyone to ignore the problem--religion--and divert your focus to fixing "democracy" instead" 2-" Yet, in their lofty self-image, their thimble minds view all religious as the fanatics who throw feces and spit on passers-by." 3- "ordinary people in all three communities are increasingly disgusted by "anarchic-hedonism-and-to-hell-with-morality" 4- "Seculars offer us nothing but immorality and hedonism wrapped in glittery foil. " 5- "Arabs, Americans and Israelis are increasingly concerned about family values, " Generalizing is a logical fallacy, and i think we should not criticize people for doing thing that we do ourselves! You have a nice day.
25. 24 Demonstrate, not assert, a false generalization
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (12.15.09)
26. # 24 Mohammed Jordan
Sagi   (12.15.09)
Thank you Sir for pointing out to Paqid his fallacious arguments. Paqid is rather set in his ways and will not admit easily to his faults and mistakes. I am not only secular but an ardent aetheist committed to the denunciation of religion, all religion, from totem pole to Bible, yet hedonism and I are miles apart and I am not alone in this. On the other hand we all are aware of deeply religious folks who can practice hedonism almost as a "second religion". Generalization indeed. You too Sir, have a nice day.
27. Victory Or Death
RickD ,   USA   (12.16.09)
That's the jihadi motto. Offer your fighters everlasting houris if they die and victory if they succeed. It's not a bad strategy. Especially in a culture where rich men get four wives and young and poor men, who are the fighters, get none. This was Arafat's strategy. Make it impossible for his countrymen to compromise. Create a conflict that is endless. Victory or death. We all know what Golda Meir said about not forgiving them for killing their children. Nothing has changed. The good professor would have us believe that the Jewish religious right are in the same category. He's nuts. While there may be many things that the religious Jews won't compromise on, in the end, if there is real peace on offer, the Jewish nation will compromise. If there is not real peace on offer, then the Israeli nation should not compromise.
28. to 5
naoom   (12.16.09)
alaksa is the place not the construction not like settelments it is construction can be destroyed or be under palastinian rule so its resedents will run way like sheep
29. to 16
noor ,   jerusalem   (12.16.09)
it is not about religion even they left the religion flag .. israil said it is the promised lnd to jews but sure they want benifits more than to put god rules
30. Reply to #22 Paqid the goy
Avi ,   Israel   (12.16.09)
Your damm right i will take up arms to defend freedom , domcracy and to deliver us from religious coercion. Its a case of kill or be killed. The religious extremist want to kill us and i for one will fight with every last breath in my body. They hate us so much well the feeling is mutual thans for supplying the address.
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