I choose the rabbis
Yael Mishali
Published: 17.12.09, 23:59
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1. just like Iran
Sammy ,   UK   (12.18.09)
Lovely, Israel shows her colours... theocracy like Iran over Western democracy. So I look forward to a day when the rabbis rule your lives, legislating long sleeves and wigs for ladies, kippas or hats for men. And G-d forbid you utter the word "Yahweh" in vain or you will find yourself hanging from a pole...
2. Author insults her own intelligence
Edan ,   Tel Aviv   (12.18.09)
Assuming she has some. She starts out from the assumption that political views and religious views are one and the same. While it is true that at times political views often coincide with religious ones it is important to distinguish between them. This stems from the fact that political views, when implemented affect a community and religious views are something private which SHOULD only concern the individual. Many people in Israel (such as the author) do not understand this concept.
3. Such a practical person
Reuven ,   New York   (12.18.09)
What if every soldier followed the instructions of their own Torah Scholar Rabbi and those instructions were conflicting, based on different interpretations of the Torah? With an army like that, Israel would be overrun by their enemies in days. Then, IF you were still alive, there would be no secular Jewish politicians to have to worry about. Would that make you happy?
4. why I would choose rabbis over democracy
yankel ,   kfar saba   (12.18.09)
reply to No.1 Not possible you are fighting an inferior complex in yourself-the rabbonim wouldnt put themselves in the position you state
5. Sammy #1: Change your name
Israeli 2   (12.18.09)
6. If you are Jewish
Gavriel ,   USA   (12.18.09)
and oppose Jewish Law in Israel, then you should really consider another religion. The Law is what Judaism is all about, only seculars are worried that their gay night club in Tel Aviv might be closed if the Torah was actually enforced.
7. Sammy in the UK: Get real!
Yitzhak ,   California   (12.18.09)
You speak from the land of an established church, the Church of England, so you are already on thin ice. Furthermore, I strongly oppose the rule of Torah law over the secular laws of the state of Israel, which by the way (in case you haven't noticed) are still very much the law of the land. Israel isn't going to turn into a theocracy run by rabbis, the secular majority won't allow that to happen. So, it appears all you wish to do is bash Israel, and are using this very healthy open debate among Israelis to do so. Yes, indeed, Israel is showing its colors: as an open democracy where all viewpoints, even benighted ones such as Yael Mishali's, are given the freedom of expression.
8. Finally, a Jewish Outlook ....
David klein ,   Israel, Rehovot   (12.18.09)
Excellant article, to the point and a thoughtful comment on the state of Israel today as compared to the time of the Maccabees.
9. Is she for real?
Norman Gellman ,   Rehovot   (12.18.09)
Is Yael Mishali kidding? Does she see what life is like in Theocracies like Iran? There other outlooks as to what it means to be religious not only orthodoxy which is based without much revision on 16th century doctrine. In a democracy, everyone could practice religion as they see fit and not be forced to follow a specific strain of Judaism. The there is nothing bad about the government adopting some of the morale laws of Halacha. Adapting all of Halacha would be a disaster.
10. @ 1 just like idiots evrywhere
izzy d   (12.18.09)
you infer Israel is really a theocracy from one person's opinion. What does that say about you and your colours?
11. #1
david ,   jerusalem   (12.18.09)
seek help my friend
12. yael
d ,   jerusalem   (12.18.09)
Can I buy you dinner?
13. Dangerous line of thinking
Logic ,   Israel   (12.18.09)
"If we don't protect democracy, democracy will not protect us." - Former supreme court justice Aharon Barak Israel cannot turn into Iran. In such a situation, those with options will flee (justifiably) to democratic shores while the nuts and unfortunate stay behind. I strongly suggest the author speak with former Soviet citizens, who actually had to live in a non-democratic state. Also, without democracy, the author won't have the right to publish her thoughts in Ynet.
14. couldn't agree with #1 Sammy more you are a lunatic
dan ,   israel   (12.18.09)
Its people like you that put the state of Israel in danger of repeating its past mistakes. The irony is so thick - the same people that should know our history the best and so often the ones who support repeating our past mistakes. Remember what happened to our last country?! It turned into a corrupt religious theocracy and brought on its own destruction. Democracy forever.
15. Is there a line?
Alex ,   USA   (12.18.09)
As far as Jewish Law goes, what is accepted among the Jewish community as acceptable and not, I think the Rabbis should govern that. I think that the Rabbis should run the Yeshivas as well. Do I think they should run the IDF? No, I think Secular Democracy could be better used. Same with heads of state. Democracy is the best "mean" we have today. Rabbis are not immune to sins. We are all human, and we will all make mistakes. I think these mistakes can be lessened using a secular democratic approach to Heads of State, with a Rabbinic Rule approach to Jewish practices. (Israel is not 100% Jewish, still many non-Observant/atheist Israelis I know and love)
16. Surprised
Ricardo Macher ,   KarneiShomron Israel   (12.18.09)
I have been reading the talk backs and I am really surprised to see how much secular ignore about what Halacha is! To compare an Halachic Israel to Iran is highly offensive, you must know that the whole idea is to rule by judges (secular, religious, even atheist) but using Israeli law instead of UK and Turkey law. That doesn't mean you will be persecuted nor nothing near, it means the use of a different values scale, much more beneficial for the ones who have less than savage capitalism like we have in the West. It means educating people to know what Jewish religion is all about so they can really choose and not making them believe that everything religious is bad. Jewish law gives you the chance to chose, and it was always kept according to the times, just the basic moral concepts never changed and with Gd's help wont change either.
17. The Inconvient Law
Paul ,   Jersualem, Israel   (12.18.09)
There are certain red lines for those that don't believe we descended from apes. Expelling Jews from their homes is the epitome of racism, that the world puts in a separate category for Jews, and we acquiesce to this nonsense. Zionist politically tainted, pseudo-democratic, secular law has survived for 60 years and now threatens the very foundations of our survival. Torah law based on Natural law, provided our survival for 3500 years, and would be more respected by Arabs if portrayed honestly then western secular go-as-need, unnaturally conceived and enforced law.
18. Is this woman serious???
Israel   (12.18.09)
It makes me sick and scared to read Yael Mishali's opinion....but of course she has the right to state her opinion. If we did not live in a democracy, her right could be taken away. Do we want to go backward to the middle ages, because that's the direction these people are going. Wake up- As it is now you can have the best of both world-living in Jewish Democracy.
Atilla Karagözoğlu   (12.18.09)
I am gonna try to be honest as much as I can. and I am gonna try to not make any fun. thank you for trusting me. *** I dont know her age THIS IS NOT IMPORTANT. I dont know if she is single or married lady ! IN FACT THIS IS NOT IMPORTANT TOO. I dont know her job ! WHAT SHE DOES BESIDE TO WRITE HERE ? SHE MAY HAVE NO JOB AND ECONOMICAL PROBLEMS ! *** every human has right to side with its religion. and anytime she/he wants, should let itself out or in from religion. SO ! SHE WASNT FOLLOWING THE LAW AND SHE IS NOW FOLLOWING THE LAW !!! these are dont make any point too. we are all same. ONE DAY IN, THE OTHER DAY OUT. *** maybe she is very upset at israeli leadership ! maybe she finally learned WHAT IS POLITICS ! AND AND WHAT ISRAELI LEADERS ARE TRULY FOR ! maybe she finally learned that NO TRUE LEADER FOR ISRAEL maybe her eyes opened and started to see that NO LEADER TODAY FOR ISRAEL AS MUCH AS THE RABBIS ! even She totally dont have same ideas with the Rabbis. DEAR READERS THIS IS NOT THAT CONFUSING CASE WHAT WE SEEING IS A LADY AN HONEST LADY SHE IS JUST TALKING DIRECT ! dear readers if she comes out next month and say and if she says opposite things ! I WANT YOU DONT GET UPSET AT HER ! PLEASE. *** Dear Atilla ! Sir ! Mr. Karagözoğlu :) tell us who to trust ! DEAR READERS ! YOU SHOULD HOLD THE RABBIS WITH YOUR ONE HAND ! but you should also use your other hand to hold your leaders ! WHICH HAND WE SHOULD HOLD HARD, SIR ATİLLA ?, if it is possible which one you think is good one than other one, use your right hand ! THE GOD LOVES RIGHTIST GUYS ! NO I DONT MEAN FACISTS. *** anyway ! this is 99.9 KARAGÖZOĞLU FM ! he is okay this morning and he is wishing a great day for everyone today. *** between is always good. no left no right between. and when we dont understand the rabbis or the law or the leaders ! we got to use our mind and what comes to our mind should be the true law. bye bye ! Atilla Karagözoğlu Saint :)
... RULE ISRAEL ,   Atilla Karagözoğlu   (12.18.09)
21. Yael's misconception
Ehud ,   TA   (12.18.09)
There is a basic misunderstanding. This is not just about democracy. It is about the rule of law versus the rule of halacha. A democrat never regards a commander as unquestionable (see IDF ethical code), nor a rabbi. But an institution claiming superior authority over a commander cannot demand that the IDF sends soldiers to them "for training" and even pays for it. This is not about freedom of speech. This is about the odd concept that the state has the obligation to pay for
22. You are so perfect Atilla Kangroooo
Miss Talı Farkaşh   (12.18.09)
23. Divide Religion and State
Mark ,   Lodz, Poland   (12.18.09)
Arn-Orao. ,   Sweden-Srbia.   (12.18.09)
THE TORAH IS THE ONLY THING WHO BRINGS A PROMISED FUTURE TO ISRAEL - 5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of Jehovah come. 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers; lest I come and smite the land with a curse. COMPARED TO - It was a truly modern-day miracle to see the debate regarding democracy vis-à-vis Torah law picking up steam and reaching the verge of explosion precisely in Hanukkah. So what is really more important for us? Which of these two values will prevail at the last moment? At the end of the day, I don’t think that the Greek invention will be chosen. THAT IS RIGHT, ISRAEL HAS A DIVINE DESTINY, NOT A GOYIM ONE. Religious politicians, hesder yeshiva rabbis, religious writers, and regular folk who get into a conversation with colleagues are quick to allay the tensions: “We’re against insubordination, we condemn insubordination, we reject insubordination,” as well as “Rabbi Melamed is an anomaly, he does not represent us.” However, it’s impossible not to add “we’ll be supporting him” because…well, why? Oh, yeah, “freedom of speech and thought.” HAS NOT JEHOVAH ALSO FREEDOM, OR SHOULD HIS FREEDOM BE SUPRESSED ???. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrCal6kE-r4 And what a pity that is. What a pity that religious Zionists do not yet have the courage to put on the table, in the clearest way possible, the real discussion. The question of Torah law versus democracy. THE DIVINE IS A TEOCRAT AND CHRISTOCRAT/MESSIAHCRAT. DEMOCRACY IS A REJECTION OF GOD, BUT GOD DO NOT REJECT THE PEOPLES ELECTION FOR LEADERS. BUT OF CAUSE THE WILL OF GOD IS THAT THE PEOPLE SHOULD ELECT THE LEADERS JEHOVAH HAS CHOOSEN AND ANOINTED, AS IN THE CASE OF THE KING DAVID. IN THE END THIS WAY WILL BRING IN THE VICTORY AND PROMISES IN THE TORAH TO ISRAEL - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWSATpx7uzk A DIVINE GLORIOUS FUTURE IS AWAITING ISRAEL, BUT THE WAY IS THROUGH GREAT SUFFERING AND SACRIFICES FOR THOSE OF THE TORAH. Arn-Orao.
25. TALKBACKS 19 AND 20.
Arn-Orao. ,   Sweden-Srbia.   (12.18.09)
WHAT ASELFDECEIVE ATHEIST THIS IS !!!. every human has right to side with its religion. and anytime she/he wants, should let itself out or in from religion. SO ! SHE WASNT FOLLOWING THE LAW AND SHE IS NOW FOLLOWING THE LAW !!! these are dont make any point too. we are all same. ONE DAY IN, THE OTHER DAY OUT. between is always good. no left no right between SO ! DEMOCRACY IS BETTER. HUMAN DEMOCRACY. SECULAR DEMOCRACY. in fact ! The God is Secular with human , too. please believe me. LOVE THE LAWS BUT DONT MAKE THEM RULE YOU 24 HOURS. OTHER WISE COMMENTS !!!. THIS TALKBACKER DO NOT BELIEVE IN AN ABSOLUTE THRUTH. PRACTICALLY TO SAY, HE DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANY THRUTH, AND WILL NEVER PRACTISE ANY THRUTH, BECAUSE THERE IS NO THRUTH ACCORDING TO HIM. Arn-Orao.
26. Then move to Tehran where you will fit in
Avi ,   Israel   (12.18.09)
With every breath in my body i will fight for freedom and democracy. Israel will not become a jewish version of Iran. You can not impose religious law on non belivers . End of !
27. To the advocates of Torah law
Norman Gellman ,   Rehovot   (12.18.09)
I think those advocating Torah law have overlooked some of the details of Torah law as practiced according to the Shulcan Aruch, published in the 16th century, including the status of women, the use of electricity, a more realistic definition of work and many other small details when taken as a whole can make life a drudgery. These advocates are probably talking about the moral aspects of Torah, which I agree should be adopted. One hundred percent of all Rabbis from all strains of Judaism do not agree on the issue which is more important land or peace. Further, the borders of the land of Israel as described in the Torah never really existed. I vote for peace not land.
28. You choose wisely
Yehudi ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (12.18.09)
I agree with the author. The rabbis are a far better choice than politicians. Torah law, as understood by the great sages, takes precedence over democracy.
29. The Talibanization of Israel
Tia ,   Mayan lands   (12.18.09)
seems to be a very successful project.
30. Yael Mishali :SPOT ON !
Trumpeldor ,   eurabyeh   (12.18.09)
On the last day of Hanucca,you had the guts and the spirit to ask the relevant question Whom to choose : a corrupt and failed leader like Ehud Barak or a far higher authority ?
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