With every breath in my body i will fight for freedom and democracy. Israel will not become a jewish version of Iran. You can not impose religious law on non belivers . End of ! Avi , Israel (12.18.09) CAN YOU THEN IMPOSE DEMOCRATIC LAW ON BELIEVERS ???. SEEMS AS YOU ARE NOT EQUALMINDED TO YOUR NEIGHBOURS, AND YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF FREEDOM ERR, YOU ARE NOT FOR FREEDOM THUS ACCORDING TO THE SECOND COMANDMENT N THE TORAH - -THOU SHALLT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF.-!!!. YOU ERR IN UNDERSTANDING, AND IF YOU CONTINUE ON THAT PATH, YOU DESTINY WILL FAIL. TEHERAN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS, ISLAM IS NO TEOCRACY BECAUSE ISLAM IS NOT A DIVINE RELIGION. Arn-Orao.

YOUR VOTE WILL FAIL !!!. I vote for peace not land. Norman Gellman , Rehovot (12.18.09) Joel 3 1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring back the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat; and I will execute judgment upon them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations: and they have parted my land, 9 Proclaim ye this among the nations; prepare war; stir up the mighty men; let all the men of war draw near, let them come up. 10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruning-hooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong. 11 Haste ye, and come, all ye nations round about, and gather yourselves together: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O Jehovah. 12 Let the nations bestir themselves, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat; for there will I sit to judge all the nations round about. 13 Put ye in the sickle; for the harvest is ripe: come, tread ye; for the winepress is full, the vats overflow; for their wickedness is great. 14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! for the day of Jehovah is near in the valley of decision. THE DAY OF JEHOVAH IS THE 3rd WORLD WAR !!!. BUT YOU HAVE THIS TO YOUR MERIT - These advocates are probably talking about the moral aspects of Torah, which I agree should be adopted. FURTHER - One hundred percent of all Rabbis from all strains of Judaism do not agree on the issue which is more important land or peace. THEY DO NOT NEED TO BECAUSE THE PROPHETS SPEAK OF BOTH LACK OF LAND AND PEACE. Further, the borders of the land of Israel as described in the Torah never really existed. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT ???, HAS JEHOVAH TOLD YOU THAT, OR THE OTHER ONE, OR ARE YOU JUST IMAGINE ???. YOU WILL SE THAT YOU WILL LOOSE BOTH LAND AND PEACE, TEMPORARILY. THEN YEHOVAH WILL FIGHT TOGHETER WITH ISRAEL, AND RESTORE BOTH LAND AND PEACE !!!. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW4OPRb4uTs Arn-Orao.

Whilst I share the writer's dubiety about Ehud Barak I am anxious for her levels of ignorance. In most democracies there is a separation of religion and state because after painful and bloody histories 1st monarchies and then democracies won out. In the sense that our history has had many periods in which Jews lost their lives for their religious beliefs, we have paid that price. Of the many developments we have avoided since this state was founded, separation of state and religion is one and it was always left to the infamous 'status quo' in which representatives of the state reached agreements and found a modus vivendi - not always a happy one – with religious representatives. Over the last few years the status quo deals have been blown as our political classes have become weaker and religious leaders have flexed their muscles. Now we find ourselves facing a challenge of dangerous proportions. We have permitted hesder IDF units and rabbis to teach them as a way of channelling those of the haredi community to fulfil their national service obligations and now those rabbis want these soldiers to accept the authority of God over the state. In some ways its not a surprise. But if this is not stamped on now we will face precisely the kind of internal war that Hannukah symbolises - in which the State becomes the Greeks and the Hesder Yeshiva soldiers and the rabbis become the Maccabi'im. Either we have a state or a theocracy - that is the choice this situation is pushing us towards. The Maccabiim ultimately proved themselves failures as national leaders after the Greeks with catastrophic results for their Jewish subjects. For as much as I am no fan of this or the last 4 governments of Israel, our democracy and our state are sovereign here.

might as well have it the Jewish way, the Torah way.

The basic issue is that Barak wants to impose a level of restriction of speech on Rav Melamed that he would never dare do to an academic in an university or even on the army radio station. Baraks motivation to use his position as Defense Minister to bolster his position within the Labor party at the expense of the army and normal rules of behavior is the core problem. Melamed calls for soldiers not violate ethical rules isn't or at least shouldn't be controversial. He is being punished for saying that our naked Napoleon has no clothes. He is small politician using our army for narrow political goals.

Why is there no article about the 350 proffesors who incite sedition in the army? Read Israel Harel article in Haaretz of all papers. No complains from Barak there.

maybe that's why she can romanticize it. Rabbinics really can't hold a candle to democratic law as far as honesty, inventiveness and fairness go. The Torah can be interpreted to allow for democracy, but the Rabbis don't believe this. Believe me, it is a miracle that we are back in our Land, with a functioning Jewish government. Let's look to reform our Knesset, instead of turning more over to the rabbis. The Rabbinate is not representative of us (although those who choose to follow it should happily do so)

Either we have a state or a theocracy - that is the choice this situation is pushing us toward THE STATE/THE SHEEPHEERDER, IS AN INCARNATION OF JEHOVAH Sebaot/LORD of Hosts., IS THE ONE THAT SHALL UPPHOLD TEOCRACY !!!. Isaiah 54 1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith Jehovah. 2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thy habitations; spare not: lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes. 3 For thou shalt spread abroad on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall possess the nations, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited. 4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth; and the reproach of thy widowhood shalt thou remember no more. 5 For thy Maker is thy husband; Jehovah of hosts is his name: and the Holy One of Israel is thy Redeemer; the God of the whole earth shall he be called. Arn-Orao.

rabbis whenever they differ from Tanakh... When the rabbis have a logical basis in Tanakh they must be respected but the rabbis are NOT equivalent to haSheim and they are not infallible. Halakhah is ALWAYS over democracy. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer (& Orthodox Jew) Advocate for Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming All Torah-reverers (Jews & non-Jews) www.netzarim.co.il

As the author is a female, and she would never choose democracy over jewish law, i would like to remind her of some stories from the Torah which tell us something about the respect accorded to women under religious culture. In the story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (Genisis), when the men of Sodom gathered around and demanded Lot to hand the angels over so they can sodomize them, Lot told them "I pray you, brethern, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man, let me, i pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing, for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof" (Gensis 19: 7-8).!!!!!!!!!!!! The story of Lot and Sodomites is eerily echoed in chapter 19 of the book of Judges, where an unnamed Levite (priest) was travelling with his concubine in Gibeah and they spend the night in the house of hospitable old man. While they were eating their supper, the men of the city came and beat on the door, demanding that the old man should hand over his male guest "so that we may know him". In almost exactly the same words as Lot, the old man said: " Nay, my brethern, nay, i pray you, so not so wickedly, seeing that this man is come into mine house do not this folly. Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine, them i will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you, but unto this man do not so vile a thing" (Judges 19: 23-4). So the message is clear in both stories, enjoy yourselves by humiliating and raping my daughter and this priest's concubine, but show a proper respect for my guest who is, after all, male! You might know the rest of the story when levite handed her over to the mob who gang-raped her all night and... to be honest i cannot complete this story because it makes me feel sick. Of course, irritated theologians will protest that we dont take the Bible literally anymore. But that is my whole point, we pick and choose which bits of scripture to beleive and which bits to write off as symboles or allegories. However, even if we take these stories as an allegory, then an allegory for what? Surely, nothing praiseworthy!

... the Bible does not tell this horrendous story to endorse the behvior of the man, but rather to condemn it. The last verse reads "And it was so, that all that saw it said: 'Such a thing hath not happened nor been seen from the day that the children of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt unto this day; consider it, take counsel, and speak.'" Clearly there was shock at the despicable deed in Israel at the time and the purposes of this story is preserve the shock, to teach that such behavior is an outrage against Gd and the community.

The last verse condemned the cruelty of the Benjamins, not the Levite! Remember, Lot also bargained away his daughter's virginity, and G-d decided to spare him with his family (except his wife whom the Lord turned into a pillar of salt because she commited the offence). This also reminded of Lot's two daughters who make brief reappearance in the story when they decided to make their father drunk and copulate with him!!!!! If this dysfunctional family was the best Sodom had to offer by way of moral, some might begin to feel sympathy with G-d and his judicial brimstone!

are likely to not be Jewish. Forget about him as a true leader. He is an ignorant, moron who has emboldened israels enemies by non action or wothdrawal more than anyone in Israels history

and Jordans 500 Honor murders of women every year for jealousy, kissing, and suspicion. Are you writing talkbacks on this in Jordan or are you afraid of being murdered yourself? hypocrite

are to be tolerated in the name of free speech, but they must be watched carefully, for if they ever obtained political power they would not give others the same freedom. Thousands of priests were hanged in the French Revolution and that's why the French are free. I'm sorry to say this, but until many mullahs and rabbis are hanged, Iran and Israel will not be safe from their scheming to control other people's lives...

Rabbis at the head of the army, and Generals to issue piskey Tora.....

i like democracy but in religion it is for the one to choose to himselfe but in life sometimes you need to be with the general .it means you can pray alone but in election you must be ruled by the general choice ..and so on in my family when my son say we want i said please say i want..but here in israil evry one want to say we want but we never sayi want and it is not the democracy

kangroooo is simpler than his complicated second name but farkash is easy to my ears it means ..farkaaaaaaash

No democracy exists in a moral vacuum and those that do quickly slide into fascism. Democracy is not a moral order, it is a political mechanism that can only exist in the context of a greater moral order. Democracy cannot decide that murder is good or that theft should be rewarded. Democracy is subordinate the the greater morality of the public it is intended to serve. In the case of Israel and the Jewish people, that greater morality is contained in Torah.

at face value, most jews would agree with that. when your weird, disagreeable description of what that qualifier is known, however, the agreement evaporates. nice sleight of hand there, maybe should have bashed other beliefs for good measure. by the way, halacha is proving to be such an attractive and effective element in israeli jewish politics. keep promoting it and give secularism a revival.

YOu can quote verses from the bible untill the cows come home. However you seem to have forgotten religion is a belief a faith not a fact. i do not recognise Jewish law or claim to live by its rules, So quote all you like its just a fairy tale as far as i am concenrend, Why dont we ask Goldylocks for a set of rules is your so concerend. Besides the state of Israel is not concern of yours you dont live here i do !

Barak and his brainwashed followers, who blame everything on the settlers - Before 67, the smaller Israel was settlements, and tel aviv and haifa were occupied by zionist settlers. Perhasp that is why there was less hatred between Jews at that time, as they were all in the same boat. And dou you really believe that by quitting Judea and Samaria, that tel aviv and haifa will be safe? No, they are also settlements. Except you can no longer blame the zionist settlers. Post -zionism is a total failure , look at gaza. But the experiment continues.

However, the army still has a right to kick people out of the army that disobey. But, in the first place, soldiers that had family, friends, or relatives kicked out of their homes in similar situations should not even be asked to actively expel other Jews. The question of disobedience (in this case) shouldn't even come up!

Yael makes a horrific mistake .She has generalized a specific,concrete issue in an illogical way.The whole areas of rabbis and torah are not being pitted against politicians and the whole system of democracy. There are rabbis who virgorously opppose the right to insubordination in this specific case.What she has done is called reducing something to an absurd level.A generalized discussion cannot be launched from this incident. where not even the rabbis have a unanimous opinion.

...deserves to wind up a woman whose husband won't divorce her, a halitza or an aguna. Let her speak of how wonderful Jewish law and rabbis are then!