Opinion
Returning to the Kotel
Haviva Ner-David
Published: 23.12.09, 01:05
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24 Talkbacks for this article
1. NO SUCH THING AS A FEMALE RABBI!!!!!!
andy ,   orlando   (12.23.09)
Only butch politically correct lesbians claim to be Rabbis.
2. Can I put up a mechitza in your conservative shul
Mordechai   (12.23.09)
The answer is of course not. And if a group of Orthodox women came to kibbut Hanaton and tried to put up a mechitza to pray as Orthodox Jews you would have them arrested. Yet you want to come to the kotel which is run as an orthodox shul and disrupt the prayers of the women who daven at the wall every day and want it run as an Orthodox shul for your ego, and your profit as you make you living given speeches pretending to be a woman orthodox rabbi.
3. Me me me
JOseph bloom ,   Aventura fla   (12.23.09)
Why is your view of Jewish practice so self-centered? Perhaps what u think is good for u isn't good for Jewish society in general. Jewish practice has developed over 1000s of years and has stood the proof of time. Just because your so self-centered view doesn't understand the reasons yet u should not be so presumptous to thing u know what's best for us all.
4. Reform rabbis and the Kotel
Aviva ,   Jerusalem   (12.23.09)
Back in 1967, I heard a Reform rabbi declare that the Kotel was nothing but a pile of rocks and it has no meaning for a modern Reform Jew. These feminists have the Robinson Arch for their ceremonies. Why do they think their prayers are more pleasing when they have a media entourage?
5. A Good Response?!
Christy ,   Boston, US   (12.23.09)
So she practices a stream of Judaism others don't agree with. They were yelled at while praying and were spat upon plus had water bags thrown at them while en route to the Robinson's Arch area. Does what they did justify such treatment? If they were breaking the law somehow, couldn't officials at the Wall be notified and allowed to handle it? Was it necessary to spit on them and demean them? People who do such things to others don't bring much Honor or Glory to G-d, and they make themselves look like people who don't know G-d.
6. Worshipping
Sagi   (12.23.09)
a pile of stones and dancing round a totem pole are one and the same thing. Having respect for our ancient artifacts and our heritage is something else. "Holy" and "sacred" are concepts invented by man and used by manipulators. One stone is not "holier" than another. I always go the The Wall when I am in Jerusalem, which is not often as it is a very dirty and unpleasant city, in order to pay my respects and to gaze in awe at our heritage, but not to pray. I wish I could get closer to The Wall but I am prevented to do so by strange folks dressed in a strange garb who demand of me that I cover my head. I do not wish to cover my head and I do not wish to be told by others how to dress and in what fashion I should pay my respect to what I consider a very important National Historical site that belongs to everyone by virtue of the very meaning of the word "National". I am a deeply patriotic person but I am just as strongly against hijackers and violent abusers of religion who shanghai others into subservience at worst and at best coerce with brute force or subtle manipulation. If these women wish to pray at The Wall it is their solemn right as it is that they should wear whatever garb they wish. If they are spat upon by men, or attacked physically then the attackers should be arrested. It is time that The Wall be restored to the public domain and put in the trust of the National Parks and extricated from the hands of its hijackers who have no authority whatsoever. They just came there one day and excerted their jurisdiction and established a fait accompli.
7. Orthos hate anyone unlike themselves
nadav ,   telv aviv   (12.23.09)
One need only to read some of these talkbacks to see the hatred spewing from supposed religious people, who claim to hold onto a higher standard of morality and ethics. Well, they only show themselves to be backward, superstitious. midevil barbarians who don't deserve a cent from the government. I am also a part of the Conservative Jewish movement and find the Orthodox domination and oppression of non-Orthodox Jews (who are an OVERWHELMING MAJORITY HERE AND ABROAD) a shame! No wonder jews have not only turned away from Orthodoxy, but they are now becoming increasingly angry with the Orthos. The Haredim and their friends should be careful, our patience will only last so long; they should expect a separation of religion from State sometime in the future....
8. there were other "jewish" liberals that based in the galilee
orthodox israeli ,   center   (12.23.09)
when you want to be christian, so name it. don't play the game of being jewish and go against the rules of judaism.
9. be honest
Drake ,   Chicago   (12.23.09)
The kotel is visited everyday 24/7 by pious men and women.Why do you feel a need to offend others, when there are rules of behaviour in every religious setting, all over the world, would you wear shoes in a Mosque?? Would you enter a Church and not respect their sensibilites???? and you are inaccurate about the Mikveh, any woman may go to any Mikveh anywhere in the world, i have NEVER heard of anyone being turned away !! please get your facts straight and stop your anti Dati polemics!
10. aren't all people welcome in a mikva?
johanna ,   tsfat   (12.23.09)
i don't understand why anyone would be questioned on wanting to use a mikva -as long as they were using it properly - surely the most important thing is that people use it. when i used to go to the mikva there were women there in slacks, with uncovered hair etc, and they still used it, and this was in the old city in tsfat, so i don't really understand what is special about your mikva - unless you let men and women use it together at the same time!
11. A little sinat chinam is good for the orthodox Jews
Brian Cohen ,   PeoplesFront ofJudea   (12.23.09)
Ahhh... dontcha juest luv the sin of sinat chinam - giving hatred freely... It's always fun to go watch the sinners at the kotel, dressed up like frum Jews yet acting like regular sinners with their ganse aveira (big sin) of blind hatred for some women who are dressed differently and wanting to be religious and spiritual. Too bad we don't have 3 more walls of the beit hamikdash, so that one could be ortho, one conservative, one reform, and one secular (yes, lots of secular jews happen to like the kotel too!). In the meantime, let's all figure out how to best hate our fellow jews in order to bring the messiah. Welease Woger! Welease Wodewick! Wewease Wudolf the Wed Nose Weindeew! and, of course, WEWEASE BWIAN!!!
12. YNET ! YOU BECOME A COMMUNIST NEWSPAPER, BUDDY ! WHAT IS ...
... YOUR PROBLEM ? ,   ATİLLA KARAGÖZOĞLU   (12.23.09)
I MEAN IT. WHEN YOU WRITE ABOUT HER AS BELOW ; "Rabbi Haviva Ner-David is a writer, teacher, and activist...." THAT MEANS YOU RECOGNISE HER . AND THAT MEANS ! YOU ANNOUNCE WAR TO MANY PLACES LET ME WRITE WHO DO YOU ANNOUNCE WAR TO ! 1) HASHEM 2) EWISH PEOPLE 3) ISRAELI PEOPLE 4) WORLD RABBIS 5) ISRAELI RABBIS 6) ARUTZ 7 SHEVA 7) ?
13. If your "women"????
lildoobird ,   Jerusalem   (12.23.09)
why do you consistently dress in mens attire of tallis and tefillin? would it be excepted to you if i wore high heels and a wig and go to the mens section at the kotel? this gender issue is simple. women have different but equal roles. why does religious ceremony define equality? why cant different ceremony be equal but different?
14. "WOMEN OFF THE WALL" is a perfect name they gave themselves.
Shalom   (12.23.09)
15. She's not even Jewish
Criss   (12.23.09)
She is the child of a mixed marriage, now she's trying to force her bag of mixed lies that her parents told her as a child on to REAL Halachic Jews without mentioning the fact that her views are the result of assimilation
16. WOMEN IN ALL RELIGIONS ! THEY ONLY ASK A LITTLE FREEDOM !...
... THATS ALL. ,   Atilla Karagözoğlu   (12.23.09)
LETS BE POZITIVE. NO NEED TO DISCOVER AMERIKA AGAIN. AND WE ARE NOT UNDER ANY ATTACK FROM MOON PEOPLE. *** Ynet ! readers dont know but ! YOU DISCIPLINE ME ! AND I LIKE THIS. you are educating me behind close doors :) interesting ! ps: we are not mailing each other with ynet. ynet sometimes doesnt publish my posts. than I understand that I am wrong. when I am right ynet publishes. ı wonder if this get published. LET ME GUESS ! IT WILL :) how smart ı am right :)
17. The New Israelistan
Mike ,   Portland   (12.23.09)
When I was on a kibbutz in the 70s, it was the epitome of gender equals. The Western Wall was not an Orthodox synagogue. It was a very public place for ALL. The arrest of the woman with a prayer shawl is a powerful symbol of the geometric family growth of the Orthodox and their increasing claims on the govt. and society, hollowing out its western values. Israel is now on the road to reverting to a middle east theocracy. Its no place for progressive young U.S. college educated women. I have highly discouraged my daughters from the "free" birthright trip to a Talibanized "new Israel", complete with Jewish modesty squads. Israel will NEVER reverse the negative ratio of yeridim to olim from N. America. Glad I saw Israel when it was still somewhat of a normal democracy. Bleach on dresses? Jewish policewoman beat up by ultra-Orthodox? Women in the back of buses? Better they visit other nations that embrace eqalitarianism, are at peace and believe in freedom for ALL.
18. thanks God, you exist (end)
Jaime ,   Santiago, Chile   (12.23.09)
19. orthodox are the worst Israeli problem(end)
Marcela ,   Santiago, Chile   (12.23.09)
20. "Beware the Tzvua" (hyena)
i ,   jerusalem   (12.23.09)
an old expression (back to pre-expulsion Spain) referring to the dangers of sly, agenda driven pushy people who sport a pretty (or tear jerking) exterior. There are many on both sides of this issue.
21. galilee
shlomo schwaartz ,   new york, ny   (12.24.09)
you realize that the rabbinic movement was also based in the galilee, right?
22. Kol ha-kavod
Jonathan ,   New York, USA   (12.24.09)
Rabbi Ner David should be regarded as a shining light in Israeli society. She is a pioneer for serious, open-minded Judaism, and has blazed a trail that inspires thousands and thousands of Jews around the world. Far from being inauthentic, self-centered, publicity-seeking or "Christian," (some of these accusations just beggar belief), Rabbi Ner David should be awarded the Israel Prize for her steadfast commitment to and passion for traditional Judaic learning, social justice and bold activism (all of which, last time I checked, are foundational principles of Zionism).
23. KOL HAKAVOD HAVIVA
Anat Hoffman ,   Jerusalem israel   (12.24.09)
Kol Hakavod to you Haviva.I'm glad you made Aliya. .Jerusalem has lost a precious voice for pluralism But Israel is enriched by your move to Hanaton.
24. Kadima Rabbi Haviva!
Uri Lam ,   Jerusalem/Sao Paulo   (12.24.09)
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