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IDF kills gunmen behind Israeli's shooting death; 3 more killed in Gaza
Ali Waked and agencies
Published: 26.12.09, 09:24
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91. :: Charles - #81
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (12.26.09)
How idiotic and simplistic. Charles what you are describing is a ‘Shoot to Kill’ policy which if you had any basic knowledge of warfare would know that this is a war crime and contravenes the IDF rules of engagement. However let us apply your ‘logic’ to the Palestinian militants: if they see anything ‘suspect’ they too have the right to shoot first and ask questions later. Thus by your logic in a war each side has the ‘right’ to kill anyone (man, woman or child). I am just thankful that this morality is not universally accepted.
92. :: Sarah B - #84
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (12.26.09)
So you are saying that your ‘ten-year old’ is more adept than you? Sarah B I will for the last time explain that the question was: “Cite a clear and *lawful justification* as to why these innocent children were murdered?” You have not done this. You have not clearly (or otherwise) cited a *lawful justification* as to why these innocent children were murdered. Even your ten-year old would see your failing. What part of *lawful justification* do you not understand? Are you ignorant on the IDF rules of engagement? Do you really think that the IDF have a *legal* right to enact a Shoot to Kill policy? For someone who claims to be from a legal profession you have *not* cited one legal law or policy that justifies the murder of these children. All you can do is spout such rubbish as . ‘Could of’ does not equal ‘lawful justification’. Sarah B give up before you embarrass yourself any further.
93. Palestinians r ready to die what about u israelis
chil ,   arlington,usa   (12.26.09)
many of u who have posted comments on here have applauded the iof's assassinations of the fatah members killed in the wb. first off there goes ur ally(fatah lol). now u brave chatters who celebrate today will u stand with courage and face the bullets that are about to come ur way. over the years the palestinians have fought against all odds(no tanks,no aircraft,no smart bombs,no apaches,no nukes,no wmd) and still they keep on fighting. when a resistance fighter leaves his home and goes to confront the iof he knows he might not come back alive and yet they still fight against incredible odds. on the other hand do u israelis have this will power to face death head on for the sake of freedom. i know that the palestinian resistance is ready to fight to the last man, what about israel, i dont think israelis have the heart to fight(its easy to fight a technological war from afar). my question to israelis is do u think these killings of the fatah men will bring the PA and abbas more palestinian support or will it make palestinians turn on this so called palestinian govt. that is nothing more than what the sellout jews were for hitler oppressing other jews so they could get good favor with germany. do u think this clash will make israel more safe. for months there has been a calm in the wb due to PA suppression of the masses of pals. But do u think this calm will continue after these clashes. more and more kids are throwing stones and more and more molaktales are being used. fatah wasnt conducting opertions in the wb, but now they will be. so is israel ready to fight forever and are u guys ready for the rise of hamas(true protecters of palestinian rights) in the wb. bye bye abbas israel has opened the door for hamas and the real inside of fatah to take over the wb and they will do this because the pals in the wb are going to demand that the resistance steps up and confronts the zionist. well hope u guys no where those bunkers are at, ur going to need them lol. oh yea it the amount of people who die that determines who wins a war, u determine a victor in a war by seeing who gives up and who doesnt. do u think u israelis will give up or the palestinians. keep ur babies off the streets for a while, david is on the prowl
94. To: Birdi at No. 88
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.26.09)
Matty will not respond. Matty does not like truth and incontrovertible evidence. Matty will slink off like a hyena when confronted with facts.
95. # 50
Birdi ,   Israel   (12.26.09)
But the freak who murdered the father of 7 has the right to kill an innocent man driving in his car ?? An eye for an eye, like it or not.
96. Sarah B. - Thank You!
Gábor Fränkl   (12.26.09)
It's unblievable. The word "shocking" is an euphemism to describe any human being's reaction to this. But! Take heart, I do all of the people disparaging Israel are in effect and even intent are defending exactly these people who comitted these "acts". And big business, i.e.: BBC, perhaps even the CNN, Guardian, Le Monde, El Pais, La Repubblica etc. are definitelyon the wrong side. Again, thanks Miss. B. (Sarah) to shke us up all.
97. HERE'S AN IDEA...
SETTHERECORDSTRAIGHT   (12.26.09)
WE APPLY THE 'PRISON SWAP' IDEA TO THE REACTION POLICY AFTER TERROR ATTACKS: FOR EACH ISRAELI THAT GETS KILLED, ONE THOUSAND TERRORISTS. THREE JUST ISN'T ENOUGH TO COVER THE LOSS OF LAST THURSDAY.
98. :: Sarah B - #94
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (12.26.09)
Sarah B how many times can you be wrong in the same day? See post #92
99. freedom or death: Hope u israelis are ready for that
chil ,   arlington,usa   (12.26.09)
it comes down to freedom or death. u kill one palestinian fighter and in the same process u create 100 more. i see news reports of kids confronting the occuppiers and the palestinian authority is no where to be found. when will the PA protect its people from the iof. well israel u have done a great deed today, u have proven hamas' point that resistance is the only national option to free themselves(even fatah is coming to that conclusion) u have effectively put abbas on a hit list because even the moderate palestinians see that abbas is nothing but a puppet on a string. israel u have unified the resistance and i'm sure they will thank you guys later. maybe 2mrw gaza will send u a thank you note attached to a rocket(express delivery) israel look ur kids in the eyes and tell them the truth, when they grow up they will have to fight to keep this stolen land
100. To: No. 96
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.26.09)
Thank you very much, sir. I do appreciate your kind words. Sarah
101. To: No. 92
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.26.09)
I'm saying nothing of the kind. My ten-year old son can trash you. I can trash you faster and better. I always do. "Innocent children," eh? Prove it. What on earth were they doing in no-man's-land? Korean children do not play in the DMZ. Are Palestinians that stupid, or did they have perhaps a more nefarious purpose. Matty, all armies have a shoot to kill provision. Why are you singling out Israel? There may not be a legal precedent. But war is hell, and Hamas has insisted for a long, long time that they consider themselves to be at war with the "Zionist entity." Fine, in that case, wartime principles of engagement shall be observed. Funny, I can't ever see to recall you crying over noncombatant children in the Congo who are dying like flies. Same for Somalia. Same for Sudan. Same for Afghanistan. Same for Waziristan. War is not clean, or sanitary. It is not particularly pretty. And if Hamas would just stop provoking Israel, nothing would happen to them; despite their declared active state of war with Israel. You are the one who has been embarrassing itself. You are so poorly informed, you espouse a cause you know nothing about and make grandiose statements that have no basis in fact or law. You are a joke. A viciously anti-Jeiwsh, anti-Israel and anti-Zionist one, but a joke nonetheless. Crawl back under your rock.
102. 62
Rosie   (12.26.09)
You made my day. Thanks for a good laugh.
103. :: Sarah B - #101
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (12.27.09)
<"Innocent children," eh? Prove it.> I do not have to prove anything in relation to these children. The *onus* was on YOU to back up *your claim* that the IDF do not kill innocent children, if these children were guilty of any wrongdoing it is up to YOU to prove so. You have failed utterly on both counts. You have not *proved* that these children were in ‘No-Man’s-Land’, you have not proved anything so far. Aside from your baseless question above you have cited no report or evidence that these children were somewhere they should not have been. At this stage you are just making stuff up. Sad. Really? Prove it? According to the IDF rules of engagement: “A legitimate military objective may be attacked even if the strike would cause incidental harm to civilians”. This is one example where innocent civilians can be harmed by the IDF, however you have NOT shown that these children were killed during a IDF attack on a legitimate military objective. In fact you seem totally ignorant on the rules of engagement. Thus you concede that there is no *lawful justification* as to why these innocent children were murdered. You have been unable to cite any lawful justification and now you are clearly saying that there is no legal precedent. In other words there is *no* credence to what you said earlier ie: you agreed that the IDF do not kill innocent civilians. Lame argument Sarah B, this is totally off topic. We are talking about the IDF killing Palestinian children. Trying to change/deflect the subject and focus the attention elsewhere is an old trick but it will not work. Hmm, childish name-calling, the last bastion for someone who can not prove their point/opinion. If I was a ‘joke’ or if my statements had no merit you should have been able to disprove them. However as you cannot, you have only demonstrated that you are hollow and devoid of any substance/factual information that may have supported your case/opinion. To recap: Sarah B has been unable to justify the legal/lawful killing of two Palestinian children that I referred to. If she cannot justify the murder of just two Palestinian children how on earth can she justify the killing of the 1,000 plus other Palestinian children. In short: she cannot.
104. Sarah
Cameron ,   USA   (12.27.09)
Ah Sarah, I do get a kick out of watching Lefties, digital Jihadis, and other weasel folk slip out of the shadows to grapple with you under the YNET sun. Still waiting for Atilla, the curious court jester, to tempt your wrath, but that cat makes me grin when I pick through his nonsense, so promise me you'll go easy when the day comes. Smite on, Sarah.
105. To: No. 98
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.27.09)
Boy, Matty, you really are NOT the sharpest knife in the drawer, you know? I've posted this for you before, but clearly you have not read it. You really should. It shoots down all of your spurious arguments concerning so-called "occupation" and so-called "illegal settlements." It examines them in the context of both United Nations Resolutions (which are not binding or enforceable unless passed under Chpater 7 of the United Nations charter; most resolutions concerning Israel have been passed under Chater 6) and the Hague Conventions http://www.globalpolitician.com/24388-israel-jerusalem Matty, I will use small words so that you will understand. Hamas is in a declared state of war with Israel. Israel therefore may respond in kind, in which case laws governing military engagements put the onus on the two Arab teenagers for entering a protected perimeter. Think of it like the demilitarized zone between North and South Korea. Anyone straying into the DMZ does so at his or her own peril. The same holds true for the border between Israel and Hamas. "Innocent children" you say? I say prove it. If they are so stupid that they enter a perimeter area of a hostile border, better get them out of the gene pool anyway. But you still have not provided any evidence to support the "innocence" claim. And Israel's experience with teenage suicide bombers is long and sad. Yes, Matty, there have been teenage suicide bombers. Yes, Matty, in a declared state of war (Hamas has declared war on the State of Israel), one shoots first and sorts out everything later. Of course there's a legal issue here -- Gaza is not a country, and only nation-states can declare war. But the missiles that come flying over the border and the repeated attempts to infiltrate the border, to mine it, booby trap it and leave improvised explosive devices to hurt Israeli border patrols are belligerent acts indeed, and Israel has every right to secure the border. And really, Matty -- two examples? Are you for real? Have you any idea how many children were killed by indiscriminate NATO bombing in Kosovo? How about Iraq (both wars)? Pakistan? Waziristan? Have you shed any tears for the several hundred children killed by Moslem terrorists in Chechnya? By the way -- did you like the little film clip in the link I posted for you? Did you invite your ten best friends over to the house and pass out sweets and popcorn? Here it is again. The whole thing is worth a read, but please scroll down to the six-minute film clip near the bottom of the page. You may get a better understanding of why I just can't get too bent out of shape about two teenagers who are shot because they are in a place they have no business being, and their motives were unclear. I suspect you're too much of a coward to comment upon the film, but that in and of itself would speak volumes: http://lindasog.com/public/terrorvictims.htm
106. To: No. 93
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.27.09)
Blah, blah, blah. Israel is the most battle-tested country in the world. And we have acquitted ourselves quite well, thank you very much. Remember the United States' little adventure in Somalia? A handful of barefoot tribal chiefs using vintage World War II rifles brought the United States to its knees. Shades of Vietnam, when you did not do all that well against tiny little men in black pajamas. The U.S. isn't doing all that well in Iraq, Afghanistan, Waziristan or Pakistan. As a matter of fact, since the end of World War II, the only "victories" the United States can claim are Grenada and Panama. LOL. Don't you worry about us. Our tiny little country that has a standing army of barely 100,000 soldiers have held 100 million Arabs at bay with relative ease. Should have asked us to clean up Somalia for you. It would have taken a day or two, but we'd have gotten the job done; not hauled ass out of there the way the U.S. did. So please. You handle your wars in the floundering way you wish,. and let us worry about our wars. Okay?
107. # 92
Birdi ,   Israel   (12.27.09)
Matty I repeat what Sarah B wrote to you. (Sarah I hope I dont offend you) "You are so poorly informed, you espouse a cause you know nothing about and make grandiose statements that have no bsis in fact or law" Thats you in a nutshell. How about taking some time out now.
108. # 99
Birdi ,   Israel   (12.27.09)
Breaking news to you; we have been fighting the arabs even before Israel became a state in 1948 & we will continue to fight for our freedom to live on this land. We adults & our children are pepared to fight ( & die) My children & I didnt join the IDF to pussy-foot around or to learn to cook & sew.
109. ignore those
Mary Beth   (12.27.09)
like Matty, Nour, etc. Why do you guys bother answering them even?? Let them write their hatred but don't help them out. It will cause them frustration to be ignored. They don't have anything new to say anyway and are full of blind hatred. You cannot make a blind man see.
110. To: Birdi at No. 107
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.27.09)
Mamaleh, you couldn't offend me if you tried! Sarah
111. # 110
Birdi ,   Israel   (12.27.09)
Toda, Motek. Keep posting Sarah, you are an asset to this forum.
112. to birdi, i like ur honesty
chil ,   arlington,usa   (12.27.09)
i respect ur honesty and bravery birdi, i do not agree with ur cause at all but i do respect u standing by ur convictions. needless to say since u are ready to fight and die if need be i am also ready to see u fight and die.
113. # 112
Birdi ,   Israel   (12.27.09)
Its called patriotism, & I am pretty sure you are a taker & not a giver. Take your compliment & shove it.
114. to birdi: time 2 show ur patriotism
chil ,   arlington,usa   (12.27.09)
hey birdi dont be mad, i'm not mad and u for ur insults towards me. this is a war and ur side thinks they are right and the palestinians think they are right, it will be settled on the battle field thats for sure. but i must ask u do u think ur family will ever have peace in palestine and if so how will that be achieved? u know the price of occupation is no peace.
115. Sarah at #106
Cameron ,   USA   (12.27.09)
Good God, you still tossing that spiteful, handjob rant about the US military around in YNET postings? LOL coming from someone whose country has built it's military record around tangling with a collection of bumbling, incompetent Arab states. You have yet to tangle with a real player, and count yourselves very lucky in that respect. You have tried that in the historical past, and failed rather badly against the Babylonians, and against the Romans, who annihilated the Israeli state, and scattered the survivors to the winds. Still waiting to see if the mighty IDF can do literally anything to defeat the Persian drive to acquire weapons that would be the end of Israel, if used. Also rather unimpressed with the strength of the Israeli military when I watch the freaks in Hamas play your nation like a fiddle over the fate of the lone Shalit, and wonder how many hundreds of Arab militants with Israeli blood on their hands you'll release back into action to rescue him from his dungeon. Don't play the sour shrew with your single friend & ally on the planet, Sarah.
116. Matty at # 90 . I'm K.O. TRY # 3
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (12.27.09)
You gave a GREAT [ ? ] argument : my spelling and grammar . That's fantastic . This "argument" is always used by loosers . Let me tell you that English is ONLY my third tongue , Hebrew # 4 . For you people should write everything 100 % correctly ,again a looser's argument . When i said that the IDF don't kills innocents , it was of course meant VOLUNTARELY . Innocents are always killed in a war . But contrary to your murderous friends who murder people in restaurants , buses and so , we don't do it voluntarely . Can you prove that those two boys were NOT in a zone of danger ? that they could not having be very suspects ? When coming in such a place , you endanger your life VOLUNTARELY , it's always suspect for the other side . Regarding those three who were eliminated . If they were innocent as you apparently claim , why did they oppose resistance ? why had they weapons around them ? When police tells me to stop for an ID checking [ it happened already here and when i lived in my West European birth country ] i do it without any problem , knowing that i have'nt misdone anything . They did'nt surrender themselve , they opposed force to their arrestation , so there was only one possibility left for the IDF : to eliminate them .
117. # 114
Birdi ,   Israel   (12.27.09)
I dont live in palestine.There is no country that I know of called palestine. Why dont you,Noor, Shlomo Karma,Matty Groves & BbsNews come & lead us & the palestinians towards peace(,instead of being armchair anti-Israel critics)seeing that you know so much about the problems in this area. Nope I am not mad at you,I think you are a joker. Peace in this area can only be when the arabs give up their armed struggle & recognize the State of Israel.Land can only be given to the palestinians once they have totally stopped bombing southern Israel,stopped all suicide bombing & random killings of innocent Israelis. Is that so difficult to understand ??
118. # 93
Birdi ,   Israel   (12.27.09)
All you need to do is, sit quiet & watch how the IDF (please & not IOF) will manage the next arab uprising. Sorry to burst your bubble, but we aint afraid of a fight.Just watch us.
119. # 115
Birdi ,   Israel   (12.27.09)
To the holier than thou Cameron. It wont be the IDF who "tackle" Iran, rather the IAF.
120. Will they, Birdi, will they really?
Cameron ,   USA   (12.27.09)
Care to stake some money on a bet amid those silent, parked Israeli fighter jets? The sand is running out of the glass, Mighty Zionist Warrior.
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