Opinion
Missed opportunity in Gaza
Iky Elner
Published: 30.12.09, 00:02
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31. # 18
Birdi ,   Israel   (12.30.09)
JPS. didnt you know that our dear resident racist BBSNews is a Cherokee American Indian, or so he says he is.
32. # 2
Birdi ,   Israel   (12.30.09)
Your new project here (please) is to take the p*s out of BBSNews on as many articles as possible. When you have finished with BBS you can start with Matty. Thanks for the laugh !!
33. :: Robert - #29
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (12.31.09)
Robert how can I correspond with you when you cannot even answer a simple question?! Article: “Abbas' intentions again revealed” (post #35) You are devoid of substance and merit (eg: a waste of time) and deserve no further correspond as you cannot be courteous/civil and give an honest reply. You are also petty (ref to KR) beyond belief. Secondly, I have read Jung (and Myers/Briggs was well as the likes of Robert Anton Wilson) years and years ago and I am well familiar with collective unconscious/archetypal psychology/etc as it fits well into my Fortean reading. However I do not see the practical relevance to the matters at hand to the same degree that you do. I would also add that I have no time for Freud as he was full of BS. Lastly I would point out that your previous remarks, casting suspicion on BBSNews’s lineage with no evidence, are now doubly meritless as one can just as easily apply your ‘archetypal’ argument to the same degree as to modern day Jews. If one was bothered.
34. :: David G - #25
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (12.31.09)
Of course you may, as long as you can answer questions in return. It is hard to say whether *all* violence will cease altogether, in fact it is unlikely, however an end to the occupation would devoid the Palestinians of the main reason for their armed resistance. 1) The removal of all illegal Israeli settlers and Israeli security forces from the WB and E Jerusalem (and the newly formed EJ outskirts). 2) Israel relinquishes all control over Palestinian air space/coastal region. 3) A land corridor between Gaza and the WB. That would effectively end the occupation. It is, Israel controls all coastal and air space as well as freedom of movement between Gaza and the WB not to mention all imports/exports into Gaza. Ideally an end to the conflict between the Palestinians and Israelis should be reached by agreement were both parties see eye to eye. This would be my preferred approach/solution. I would also like to see a two-state solution however I am not opposed to a one-state solution. 1) Major global sanctions/boycotts and extreme pressure from America. 2) A general war between Israel and Iran/Syria/Lebanon (Hizbollah)/Palestinians/etc in which Israel lost unbridled American backing. 2b) A UNSC Chapter 7 resolution tacked on to point 2. I would add that these would not be my preferred options, particularly not point 2. David G now that I have answered you questions can you tell me if: 1) you believe that the Palestinians are entitled to the same universal human rights as Jews and Israelis are (eg: right of return, to live with ‘secure borders’ et al)? 2) If not why not? Ditto.
35. I have a real radical suggestion
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (12.31.09)
Why don't we have a REAL blockade? One that includes ending the daily food, water, fuel, power, and medical supplies. One that includes a total ban on Arabs entering Israel for any reason. One that includes a thousand rockets for each and every rocket or mortar attack. That would be so radical that it might even work. Who knows let's try it and see
36. Let's See Bob!
Kandy Ringer ,   Charlotte, NC   (12.31.09)
First of all, my husband's name is Michael. I don't even call him Mike. I have not left him. He is not losing it, he just wants peace and the only way to get peace is for Israel to come clean and get back on their own land. You can't just set up residence where ever you want to set up home. Try that here in the US of A and see what you get. I am afraid you will be drawing back a bloody limb. I know that all of you are going to say that this is just Michael pretending to be Kandy. Please feel free to contact me through my email, I will answer you because I am REAL!
37. :: Anon - #30
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (12.31.09)
I would really prefer if you did not call the likes of Flyingdoc57, JPS, Robert Haymond, Birid etc "loons". It is derogatory and uncalled for.
38. Much appreciated post, Kandy:
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (12.31.09)
I do believe it is you, not Michael. And since we won't refer to him as "Mike", please refer to me as "Robert". And thanks for bringing some sanity into this discussion, if you can call it that. As to your husband wanting "peace", so do I and so do all Israelis with whom I have spoken. What you call "occupied" territories, we call "disputed" and refer to them as Samaria and Judea. We note with interest that your husband never ceases from making derogatory remarks about Israel both here, in Haaretz, on BBSNews and in his comments on The Huffington Blog. What would you expect people, any people but especially Jews, to think. There ought to be a respectful and thoughtful way of communicating. He might seriously ask a question of people. That would show humility and interest. We don't get that here, Kandy, nor did anyone get that on Haaretz. Another thing -- life is much different when you actually spend time in the mideast. In that respect, you'd have to admit, Michael appears to be an armchair journalist, one who does not have to suffer through the threats and anxieties that we Israelis do. And Kandy, there isn't one Israeli whom I have ever met who wouldn't want a real partner for peace. We do have treaties with Jordan and Egypt. Unfortunately, we had to win several wars in order to obtain them. This is a hard place. Our experience is that Arabs only react to force; I've heard that time and time again. And no, people are not the same in the mideast as they are in the USA or in Canada (where I reside half the year). There is a vast difference. I will just mention the term "suicide bomber" so you'll know what I am talking about. I will email you separately in case this post goes unpublished or you happen to miss it. Regards, Robert
39. "Matty Groves" #37:
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (12.31.09)
Could the "loons" Anonymous was writing about be you and Michael Hess? Or all of us? Just checking. This would be an exercise in self-recognition.
40. Next time...
Brad ,   USA   (12.31.09)
When Israel finally decides to get the job done, the world will know it because rockets and mortar shells will no longer come from the piece of Israel, known as Gaza.
41. Peace
Kandy Ringer ,   Charlotte, NC   (12.31.09)
Robert... Nothing would make me happier than peace in Israel. You have to look at it from both sides of the story. As always there is two sides. Palestinians were building, farming and raising families then here comes Israel. They take their land, homes and farms. They block the Palestinians from selling their goods. Keep them from getting food, water or supplies that are desperately needed to survive. Israel has them blocked in a small box that they can't get out of. I realize Israel has a right to their land but there is boundaries that need to be respected. And just to set the record straight, Michael and I both are Cherokee.
42. # 41
Birdi ,   Israel   (12.31.09)
Israel has not "blocked Palestinians from selling their goods" Israel does not "keep them from getting food,water or supplies" If this was the case, the Palestinians would have all straved to death (by now) http://www.ipcri.org/ipbf/guide-eng.pdf
43. Hello Kandy: With respect to your submission,
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (12.31.09)
here are the facts according to the Shin Bet: Since the beginning of 2005 until the end of 2008, 5,700 rockets and 4,000 mortar shells were fired at Israel from Gaza. In the year 2008, 2000 rockets and 1600 mortar shells were fired. During the six months of truce ending in December 2008, 361 rockets and 303 mortar shells were fired. Since the beginning of the year 2000, when firing began, nineteen people were killed by rockets and eighteen by mortar shells. This does not include the number of Israelis wounded by these blasts (like the ten year old boy being wheeled around the streets with his legs gone) nor the considerable psychological havoc resulting in PTSD in so many citizens, including the young. When Israel left Gaza in 2005, the greenhouses which produced food for export, a thriving industry, were torn apart by Hamas operatives to make way for launching pads for rockets. I have communicated with you personally by email as you indicated I might. I wrote on the subject of Michael's Cherokee lineage and now I know that you share this lineage. Given the terrible exodus known as "The Trail of Tears" to the western plains forced upon the Cherokee Nation so many decades ago, why wouldn't you and Michael have more sympathy and understanding for our people, the Hebrews, who were exiled to Egypt, later exiled from Samaria and Judea by the Romans, sent packing from Spain where they had established very stable and fruitful communities, endured the Holocaust, then exiled from each and every mideast Arab country after all property was confiscated in 1948 and finally ingathered in Eretz Yisrael. Possibly you could speak to this at a personal level as well as to the other points made with respect to the incursion of rockets and mortar shells experienced for eight years until the end of our war against the Hamas authority.
44. Matty Groves #34 the Arabs do not agree with you
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (01.01.10)
First off the terrorists attacks started way before 1967. In fact the PLO was formed in 1964 to liberate 'occupied Palestinian territory'. So you are wrong with your most basic premise. Second the Arabs have NO legal claim to any of the land west of the Jordan. International law states it is ours. Third not only do you give the Arabs the land we liberated from Jordan and Egypt, but also divide the State of Israel - No way. Was India divided to allow East and West Pakistan have a land route? No it wasn't. Nor has Canada been divided to supply the US with a land corridor to Alaska. The Arabs and I do mean ALL the Arabs have stated that any Jewish state is too much. So the Arabs have stated that you are wrong, everything you have ever written here is wrong and that you are a terrorist supporting moron.
45. Gee, and yet there's the Arab Peace Initiative.
BBSNews ,   Charlotte, NC   (01.01.10)
46. and along came kandy.
neutral ,   in between   (01.02.10)
I come to ynet for 6mths trying to learn about israel, how does israel think. why israel wants to bomb iran? why cast lead? why palestinan problem? i find 2 sorts on ynet comments. matty groves and bbsnews on 1 side with criticism and obvious disappointment of israel and on the other side is sarah b and mark and birdi and flying doc and robt haymond etc who just seem to call side 1 antisemites anti israel morons ignore hard questions call for more radical actions but no real info about why. is hard to feel sympathy for them like that. in 6mth i cannot find a sensible comment from side 2 and nearly give up thinking israel is full of fools who cant defend their situation. but then along comes kandy to knock some sense into side 2 and here is #38 #43 and i finally get insight into israel thinking. more like that from side 2 would be good. thanks kandy.
47. hypocrisy
Lovallo ,   NY, US   (01.04.10)
You speak of terrorism; is the definition of that term not the willful killing of innocent civilians for political means? Did you not kill 1500 or so men, women, children and babies in your assault on your prescribed open-air prison, AKA Gaza? Who were the terrorists here again? please state your case, i can't wait to hear your twisted logic.
48. #47 War in Gaza response to Palestinian terror
Cynthia ,   USA   (01.04.10)
Operation Cast Lead would not have been necessary had the Palestinians stopped launching kassam rockets and bombs. They ignored all requests to cease fire prior to the military response. The Palestinians responded with 50+ missles per day before Israel launched a military response 12/08. "Data on Fatalities in Gaza: According to data compiled by the IDF in a project led by the Research Division of Israel Military Intelligence, there were altogether 1,166 fatalities in Gaza as a result of Operation Cast Lead. 709 of these were terrorist operatives, the majority from Hamas and the remainder from other terrorist organizations. A total of 295 of those killed were apparently not involved in hostilities. Of this group, 89 were under the age of 16 and another 49 were women. With respect to an additional group of men aged between 16 and 50, it could not be established clearly whether or not they were involved in hostilities." Who is the hypocrite? Take your complaints to Hamas. Their actions provoked the War on Gaza.
49. # 47
Birdi ,   Israel   (01.04.10)
I would like to see what you would do & how you would react if you & your family were bombarded day & night with quassam rockets for 8 years, non-stop? Would you invite your enemies for tea & cake or would you retaliate? I cant wait for your twisted reply.
50. # 46
Birdi ,   Israel   (01.04.10)
You cannot get any insight from Kandy's post as it is full of unjust lies. Please refer to my post # 42 where the real truth is about the fact that Gaza is NOT starving. If it would'nt be for Israel allowing & sending food & medical supplies into Gaza, the Palestinian would be all dead by now. FACT.
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