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Jordan wants Dead Sea Scrolls back from Israel
AFP
Published: 13.01.10, 11:57
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31. The Natives Stole our Loot!!!
Andrew M ,   Leeds, UK   (01.13.10)
So Jordan demands that the aboriginal people of Israel return their own written history to the thieves who stole it from them in the first place. What ever next? Will Britain demand that the Irish return the Book of Kells, or the Australians insist that the Aboriginals return Ayres Rock? The sad fact is that most Western lefties (and a fair few in Israel) will support the outrageous Arab claim.
32. Farcical claims from a made-up country
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, USA   (01.13.10)
Jordan itself is a colonial creation, carved out of the British Mandate for Palestine as a consolation prize for a one-time British ally - the Hashemites - that lost its hold on the Hijaz to the al' Saud tribe. After the War of Independence, Jordan illegally annexed Judea and Samaria, renaming it the West Bank. That annexation was only recognized by Pakistan and the UK. But Jordan abandoned all claims to that territory in 1988. Those scrolls and scroll fragments were all composed by Jews of many sects (not just Essenes), found initially during the Mandate era, then under that illegal Jordanian rule. Jordan's claim is patently absurd. The scrolls are like Jerusalem and the land itself. The Arabs and Muslims only care about them when others possess or want to possess them.
33. Dead Sea Scrolls
John ,   USA   (01.13.10)
# 9 I have a comment, Who stole the Temple Mount from the Jews?Give it back and we will also keep the Scrolls.
34. To: No. 21
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (01.13.10)
I wonder what an international court would say about tthe fifty-eight synagogues that were destroyed by the Jordanians. What do you suppose an international court would say about Jordan's shameful desecration of ancient Jewish graves? Jordan indeed should be brought before an international tribunal and be held to account for its disgraceful conduct. The punitive damages alone will help build lovely new Jewish settlements throughout Judea and Samaria and many beautiful new Jewish homes in East Jerusalem. Thank you for the splendid suggestion. As to Qumran -- stuff it, chica. Learn geography; learn history; learn international convention. Can you spell "non-sovereign territory acquired by Israel in the course of fighting a defensive war?" Tick tock.
35. scrolls
ezer   (01.13.10)
Jordan's claim of ownership is based on the fact that the scrolls were found in territory which they had conquered and to which they had no legal rights. Well they lost the land in 67 so too bad for Jordan.
36. so the West Bank IS Jordanian now?
nadav ,   tlv   (01.13.10)
The Arabs are unbelievable! First they claim that the West Bank is Palestinian land, but when it comes to stealing Israel's cultural heirtage (The dead sea scrolls were written by JEWS!) they claim the land is Jordanian! This is all part of the Arab/islamic and communist plot to delegitimize israel in a nefarious, multi-faceted way to push it toward collapse or destruction. The Arabs should know that they will fail in this despicable, genocidal tactic!
37. ezer @35 bloody nerve by Jordan.
James ,   ISRAEL   (01.13.10)
Following this the Jordanians better replace the tomb stones of OUR dead to turn it into latrines. UNBELIEVABLE CHUTZPACH TO CLAIM OUR JEWISH RECORDS which belongeth to us ,not them. Typical greed by Arabs that will never cease.. I say,go to hell and stay there. What else will they claim,our souls as well?
38. Saudi Arabia to restore Uthman Qur'an from Tashkent
observer   (01.13.10)
Tashkent is Jerusalem of Khazaria; the home land of the contemporary Jews.
39. 'Unbelievable' .... no, just typical.
Doug R. ,   Gwent UK.   (01.13.10)
The arrogance, ignorance and hypocrisy of the Arabs here is disgusting. They steal and occupy land that belongs to the Jews and then accuse the Jews of appropriating property which is obviously the property of the Jews. I was about to describe the attitude of the Arabs as 'unbelievable' but one only has to look at their attitude towards everything else in the region, including Jerusalem and the disputed territories, to see that such an attitude is indeed believable as it is predominant in all their dealings with Israel.
40. Re: #38 Tashkent
Daweed ,   Saana, Yemin   (01.13.10)
How many times must this claim be disputed? Genetic evidence ties modern Jews to israel. Khazars represent at best a portion of population only. Let's see genetic testing or so-called arabs across israel, Jordan, etc. vs. Arabs of Hejaz or Turk or Baltic Bosnia, etc. What of the many non-arab populations swallowed by imperialism of arab?
41. to #38 kazarz r not jewish
ghostq   (01.13.10)
they r asians, jewish r jewish, from judeh. and arabs r from arabia the peninsula, the names say it all. duh.
42. little exercise for you
observer   (01.13.10)
Do you have proof that the Khazarian Ashkinazim are not converted Jews? while mentioned many times in Quraan, were Jews even mentioned once in Torah?
43. Jordan's claim violates interantional law
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (01.13.10)
UNSC 242 "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in the Middle East in which every State in the area can live in security." Jordan invaded Judea and Samaria in 1948. They had no claim to Israeli lands. So their claim to the Dead Sea Scrolls is based on their illegal occupation of Israeli lands.
44. To: No. 5 - Second Attempt
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (01.13.10)
I think you mean archeology, not architecture, and will proceed on that basis. Of course avid archeologists keep digging. That's what archeologists do the world over, dear. But your comment is nonsensical. Archeologists that make finds in Egypt claim them for Egypt -- whether the finds are Hittite or Nubian or Hyksos or from the pharonic Ptolemaic era (which makes them Greek, not Egyptian) -- what, if anything, is your point? All archeological discoveries in Israel are duly displayed and their source and provenance appropriately credited. Your post is meaningless and irrelevant. Sorry.
45. 33 - you suggesting someone else can give it back?
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (01.13.10)
i'm curious to know who can give away what the muslims occupy.
46. Noor @ 21 "water in the brain" is yours.
Kate ,   ISRAEL   (01.13.10)
I wasn't aware you were a Jew. Please do tell why you need the Jewish scrolls writen by Jews that kept the history of that time. And we have inherited it.There will be many more finds.We have now found more archeological ones in Tel-Aviv. The finds are continuous ,and we'll find more G*D knows our Jewish land is replete with them. Since when does it belong to the artificially created country Jordan. Do they read understand Hebrew, Aramaic? Were the Essenes arabs,or Jews. Go cry me a river,Noor who has to go back to school and stop making inane comments.
47. #40 Ashkenazim aren't only big part, but the elites of Isra
observer   (01.13.10)
wait till you make your aliyah, and discover by yourself.
48. To Everyone here..have you noticed??
Kate ,   ISRAEL   (01.13.10)
have you noticed how all the Arabs are jumping on the band wagon asking for this and that. i.e Iraq wants compensation for the Osirak Nuclear facility which the world is better off and hurrah for Israel destroying it. with such panashe. Now comes little jordan after a lapse of 61+years since the RE-BIRTH of Israel and have just pondered..what shall we do...hmmm... oh a clever dick thought...I inow...how about we demand the Scrolls to be returned to us?...that aught to do it ya achi. But they think we Jews were born yesterday and the deluded ones will be left holding the EMPTY VESSEL they demand. You know what friends,it get worse by the day,month,years no rest. With many demands, not only by Arabs,but by the world at large.i.e boycotts, accusations when we retaliate for our existence from the attacks we have to endure and defend ourselves constantly.. Enough said.
49. JORDAN GAVE UP ALL CLAIMS TO THE WEST BANK
Amra ,   Chicago, USA   (01.13.10)
King Hussein of Jordan relinquished any and all claims to the territories ("West Bank" and Jerusalem) they illegally occupied in the 1948 war. So, even if Jordan had a legitimate claim--which they don't, King Hussein relinquished this when he gave up any claim to the territory. And, if the antiquities were stolen from a museum in Jerusalem as this Nut Job claims, then they must be returned to Jerusalem--which is part of Israel--not Jordan. Why do Arabs continually make asses out of themselves by issuing such bogus claims??
50. #48. KATE,#49,AMRA..YES, THIS IS TRUE, JORDAN ALWAYS
ABRAHAM ben JACOB ,   CANADA   (01.13.10)
THE TRENDS WE ARE SEEING ARE CAUSED BY MANY FACTORS, INCLUDING ANTI-SEMITISM, GREED, AND NOW BY TURKEY AS DOWRIGHT HOSTILE, AND NEVER MIND THE MANNERS OF AYALON. ISREAL GAVE UP GAZA AND GOT ROCKETS IN RETURN AS A THANK YOU. GIVING UP TERRITORIES ENCOURAGES THE ARAB AND MUSLIM PREDATORS. THIS NICE GESTURE ENCOURAGES MORE " GIMMEE" ATTITUDES BY ISRAEL'S ENEMIES. THE ARABS SMELL A WOUNDED OR SLEEPY ISRAEL. THE PERCIEVED " EASY KILL " BY THE ARABS ENCOURAGES THEM MORE AND THEY DEMAND MORE ALL THE TIME. JORDAN JOINED THE OTHER ARAB COUNTRIES AGAINST ISRAEL IN 1967 ONLY LATER ON WHEN THEY PERCEIVED A WEAKENED ISRAEL AND JOINED IN THE " PERCIEVED KILL " OF ISRAEL. HYENAS BEHAVE IN THIS MANNER. IT IS A SIMILAR SITUTATION WITH OUR DEAD SEA SCROLLS. THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS BELONG TO THE JEWISH PEOPLE, ISRAEL, NOT TO ARABS. JORDAN SHOULD NOW BE VIEWED AS LESS FRENDLY TO ISRAEL, CLOSE TO OUTRIGHT ENIMIES. ALSO, JORDAN IS IN POSSESION OF STOLEN GOODS IF THEY HAVE SOME DEAD SEA SCROLLS. THEFT IS A CRIME IN MOST OF THE CIVILISED WORLD. JORDAN IS GUILTY IF THEFT. AND IT'S EVIDENT THAT THE ARABS ARE SMELLING A WEAK ISRAEL, LIEBERMAN WAS RIGHT, SO WAS AYALON. YOU ONLY GIVE RESPECT TO OTHERS IF THE RESPECT IS MUTUAL. THE PRESIDENT OF TURKEY, AND NOW THE " NOT SO FREINDLY " JORDANIAN RULERS, IN FACT THEY ARE BEING DOWNRIGHT HOSTILE. ISRAEL MUST RE-EVALUATE THE SITUATION WITH THE HOSTILE JORDANIAN RULERS.
51. yet to be digitalized
observer   (01.13.10)
For 1,500 years, the Codex Sinaiticus lay undisturbed in a Sinai monastery, until it was found - or stolen, as the monks say - in 1844 and split between Egypt, Russia, Germany and Britain. Now these different parts are to be united online and anyone, anywhere in the world with internet access will be able to view the complete text and read a translation. When the different parts are digitally united in a £1m project, anyone will be able to compare and contrast the Codex and the modern Bible. For those who believe the Bible is the inerrant, unaltered word of God, there will be some very uncomfortable questions to answer. the Codex contains two extra books in the New Testament; Shepherd of Hermas & the Epistle of Barnabas. This goes out of its way to claim that it was the Jews, not the Romans, who killed Jesus, and is full of anti-Semitic kindling ready to be lit. "His blood be upon us," Barnabas has the Jews cry. It shows there have been thousands of alterations to today's bible. Had this remained in subsequent versions, "the suffering of Jews in the subsequent centuries would, if possible, have been even worse", says the distinguished New Testament scholar Professor Bart Ehrman. The Codex - and other early manuscripts - omit some mentions of ascension of Jesus into heaven, a key references to the Resurrection, which the Archbishop of Canterbury has said is essential for Christian belief.
52. stop messing about Ynet.(observer all post) to you
Kate ,   ISRAEL   (01.13.10)
Japan: Daber: in Hebrew, to speak. Daberu: Japanese for chatting. Goi: a non-Hebrew or foreigner. Gai'Jeen: prefix for a foreigner, a non-Japanese. Kor: cold in Hebrew. Koru: to freeze in Japanese. Knesset: Parliament in Hebrew. Kensei: Constitutional government in Japanese. These are among the thousands of words and names of places with no real etymological meaning in Japanese. And they all correspond with Hebrew words. Even the Kings have similar names. The first known king of Japan, who was named Osee, ruled around 730 BC. This king has been identified with the last king of Israel, Hoshea, who died around the same time, at the time of the Assyrian exile of the ten tribes from Israel. The holy Japanese shinto temple strongly recalls the ancient holy Isrealite temple, which housed a holy of holies section and several gates. Several artifacts in Japan have been traced to Assyrian and Jewish sources, among them, a well in Koryugi with the words "well of Israel" inscribed on its side. It has also been suggested that the carts of Otsu and Kyoto are of ancient biblical origin, as they are different from any others in Japan. Might the ancient Israelites and their wives and children have been conveyed to Japan in these carts? Among the Samurai sect, there is a tradition that their ancient ancestors came to Japan from western Asia around 660 BC.The name 'Samurai' recalls 'Samaria'. And to which tribe do the Japanese belong? There are those who claim that the Mikado, the Japanese emperor, is a descendant of the Hebrew tribe of Gad. 'Mikado' recalls the Hebrew word for 'his majesty the king,' 'Malchuto'.
53. To: Kate at No. 48
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (01.13.10)
Excellent point. Yes, I have noticed. Coincides rather neatly with the murder of the particle physicist in Tehran, the ramped-up aggression from Hamas and non-Hamas terrorist elements, the mysterious explosion at the home of a leading Hizbollah politician in Lebanon and some rather immature and childish efforts by Turkey to engineer a diplomatic crisis with Israel. I must say, however, that Jordan should have done better in terms of resisting pressure. After all, Israel is the only country that rose to the occasion when Syria invaded Jordan in 1970, and it is Israel that promised military intervention when Syria threatened to invade Jordan in 1980 and 1989 – well before Jordan concluded a peace treaty with Israel. Perhaps Jordan has forgotten the fact that Syria has consistently diverted better than one-half of the Jordanian share of fresh water supplied by the Yarmuk River in defiance of several water agreements concluded between Jordan and Syria. Syria is, of course, the puppy dog client of Iran. I suspect that Syrian threats to Jordan were secondary and the real source of the pressure on Jordan can be traced to an Iranian threat to destablize Jordan using the aggressive Shi’ite population in Iraq, with whom Jordan shares an extremely porous border. Israel is well aware of these desperate and rather pathetic attempts by Iran to deflect Israel's attention; they won't work. Israel's pretty good at multi-tasking anyway; note the swift and highly effective responses to aggression by an admittedly extremely reluctant Hamas. And so it goes. I wonder what Iran will try next.
54. To: No. 5 - Third Attempt
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (01.14.10)
I think you mean archeology, not architecture, and will proceed on that basis. Of course avid archeologists keep digging. That's what archeologists do the world over, dear. But your comment is nonsensical. Archeologists that make finds in Egypt claim them for Egypt -- whether the finds are Hittite or Nubian or Hyksos or from the pharonic Ptolemaic era (which makes them Greek, not Egyptian) -- what, if anything, is your point? All archeological discoveries in Israel are duly displayed and their source and provenance appropriately credited. Your post is meaningless and irrelevant. Sorry.
55. Just a thought....
Mark ,   Lodz, Poland   (01.14.10)
If these 'Jewish antiquities' were so important to Jordan, doesn't that conflict with their ethnic cleansing of Jews and trashing synagogues during and after 1948. Either this way or that...not both.
56. To observer and his yet to be digitalized codex?( 3RD TRY)
Kate ,   ISRAEL   (01.14.10)
This reminds me of the recent story of The Da Vinci Code. What you are writing is spurious. Let's remind you of the errors concerning that Jesus was not killed by the Romans,but the Jews. Bull. Bear in mind during the crucifixion it was the Passover and Jews would not countenance any killings of one of its own. So,the Romans did murder Jesus the Jew,not our people. Another important reminder of Peter/Shimon denouncing Jesus?and "cock crowing"..?rubbish. Because fowl was forbidden in the holy city of Jerusalem.Never allowed. Now put your distorted thinking cap on again and stop your nonsense.
57. And more on the lost Tribes of Israel.China.
Kate ,   ISRAEL(bedtime)   (01.14.10)
Ming China ________________________________________ "Behold, These are coming from afar. These from the north and the west and these from the land of Sinim." This prophecy, spoken by Isaiah, promised the return of Lost Israelites from all corners of the Earth and from Sinim. Interestingly, Sinim is the Hebrew word for China. In fort-like villages in the high mountain ranges on the Chinese-Tibetan border live the Chiang-Min of West Szechuan. It has been claimed that the Chiang-Min are descendants of the ancient the carts of Otsu and Kyoto are of ancient biblical origin, as they are different from any others in Japan. Might the ancient Israelites and their wives and children have been conveyed to Japan in these carts? Among the Samurai sect, there is a tradition that their ancient ancestors came to Japan from western Asia around 660 BC.The name 'Samurai' recalls 'Samaria'. And to which tribe do the Japanese belong? There are those who claim that the Mikado, the Japanese emperor, is a descendant of the Hebrew tribe of Gad. 'Mikado' recalls the Hebrew word for 'his majesty the king,' 'Malchuto'years before Christ.
58. #1 you shall not steal, but buying the stolen isn't steal?
(01.14.10)
Q: It was the goyim who sold the scrolls, not the Jews who bought those? A: it depends on from where you take your Judaism; from the Ten Commandments movie or from the Exodus one.
59. And who would you be@58 ?observer perhaps?
Kate ,   ISRAEL   (01.14.10)
If you have not heard of the Essenes then tough on you. They wrote it all.They lived accordingly and it is assumed that perhaps Jesus migh thave been one o them. Of course it is about Judaism,and the TEN COMMANDMENTS are the corner stone of todays Christianity whereby the moral values are followed.(good or bad)all is taught in our Holy Bible. What else did you expect. The one who found them in the desert was an Arab shepherd boy,and immediately handed it to the Jews.Whether it was handed to a goy, fact remains Jews purchased the scrolls legally. What good would they be to Jordan,and why wait for 61+ years to demand it. Are they Jews,can they translate ARAMAIC/HEBREW.Even if they can,which they may,undoubtedly,the whole thing is uncalled for by Jordan. Methinks it is another lot jumping on the band wagon trying to muddy the waters. Anyway,it is ours,our history and not theirs PERIOD
60. To Sarah B @ 53 ...Just saw your ost.A question:
Kate ,   ISRAEL   (01.14.10)
Sarah I wasn't aware that Syria invaded Jordan. I went to google and nothing but the Black September episode with Arafat/PLO and King Hussein having to deal with them killed 20.000 pals. that I knew of course. I did read Syria's displeasure toward the King for his harsh treatment of the Pals,but no invasion. When you return can you give me a link. By the way,I also put the dates you proferred.i.e 1970,1980,1989. No satisfaction. Regards
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