I agree with everything you said, except this: Why did PM Erdogan pubilcally humiliate Pres Peres, and why did he not have to apologize? That was an orchestrated stunt by PM Erdogan as much as Ayalon's idiotic behavior.

I very much liked reading your response, and I agree with almost all of what you say. But I do want to address some things from our perspective in Israel. First, the mantra "free media" does not justify alleging unfounded blood-libels against other peoples and countries, with the sole purpose of raising hatred. Never mind if it's against the country's enemy, but toward a friendly country with whom you have very close relationships? We Israelis hear about your TV shows, and we are very much insulted. This sabotages the relationship between our two countries. So in order to avoid this, the government has a responsibility to stop the propagation of these blood-libels. If the government fails to do so, the message is that the government does not care about these relations. It is very easy for Turks to say "free media", but how would Turks react, if we aired a similar TV show in Israel, showing the Turks as brutal murderers of Armenians? I'm sure the protest would be very, very loud. As for "24", I haven't watched it, but I don't believe it was nearly as insulting to Turkey, as your shows are to Israel. But, if something about Turkey was not portrayed there accurately - feel free to voice your protest to America. America is not Israel, by the way. Second, while I agree that Ayalon's demeanor was very undiplomatic, and the apology was in place, the sequence of events here left us feeling like your country made us lose our honor - because only we apologized. In all fairness, I do believe Turkey has plenty to apologize to Israel as well, with regards to Erdogan's behavior. Not only does your Prime Minister constantly insult our country, he also personally insulted our president Peres. And that's the same Peres who just now swallowed Israel's pride and initiated Israel's apology to Turkey, in order to end this crisis. You called for Ayalon's dismissal. I agree, but in response I call for Erdogan to stop acting childishly like someone who "won" a diplomatic war against us (this feels uneasy for us Israelis to see), and reaffirm his country's friendship with Israel. I realize asking him to apologize for his past behavior is too much to ask for, but if Erdogan could at least make himself say something like, "now that this crisis is behind us, I look forward to strengthen Turkey's ties with our important ally Israel" - this would mean a lot for us here. After we issued the apology, why not have Turkey return a diplomatic gesture?

Mr. Erdogan does this to make his party (AKP) voters happy so he can guarantee the next election and when he attacks to Israel he gets more popular in Arabic states. Then on top of everything he sends clear message to EU showing that “if you annoy me with Cyprus issue and delay Turkey’s application to join the EU, Turkey will side with Arabic States and could sign energy deals with Russia”. He signs Nabucco with EU then he goes and tells the Russian PM that Turkey will support South Stream too. Turkey’s Foreign Policy has changed and now we are playing on both sides sometimes even “off”-side. That comes from Turkey’s economical, military power and current political climate in the region. Mr. Erdogan knows that he is in win-win position so he will carry on like that. Mr. Erdogan made it clear that his reaction in Davos wasn’t towards Mr. Perez, he reacted to moderator when he didn’t allow him to talk as much as the others and he said sorry if Mr.Perez gone upset. I am sure you can find a related video in internet. Personally , he lost his temper there and it is just lack of quality as a politician. I can understand you go angry what he says about Israeli way to deal with her problems but you can never make people understand that you bombed Gazza and killed 1400 people because of rocket attacks which killed 14 Israeli. That is just unbalances justice. I know that with the money coming from Iran, Hezbollah sends rockets to Israel but killing 1400 people in residential areas will only make things worse. Israel needs to stop bombing, that harms Israel makes her enemies stronger. There should be other methods available and when it comes to Israeli abilities it is possible. Officials like Avalon should not be in Israeli Parliament and more talking should take place. להתראות

Tahl, I agree most of your statements about current debates. Hovewer, I need to take your attention about your "hidden weapon" against Turkey. You give an example about Armenian genocide in spite of the fact that you use "brutal muderers of armenian". It is quite stressing issue and Jews think that Jewish diaspora in USA is keeping away proclamation of the genocide law in US parliament. So, I feel that it is just like a weapon against us which Jewish state and public try to scare us if Turkish government force them they will not hesitate to trigger. Then Jewish media will make films or document s about it and Jewish diaspora will be silent about the proclamation. Indeed it doesnt make any sense to me. let tell why. Firts, lets assume that all these brutal muders of Armenians was a genocide. And Israel will use this card. Doesnt that mean Israel's attitude toward Palestinians is genocide? You will tell me some details to show difference. But, you know, your inclination to use Armenian "genocide" card is just indirect approval of Palestinian genocide. Secondly and most importantly, all events in 1915 is not genocide according to 1947 genocide code. I have phd in literature but history is my direct interest. I can tell you lots of evidence why it is not genocide but just to be short, if you are willing to use this card, please read history from unilateral sources or nonlateral ones. Since, most of history books and articles are sponsored by Armenian diaspora in Us, especially in western coast states. I accept that it was totaly brutal murder and Turkey lost most of armenian population aproximately 900.000 (not 1.500.000 as it is claimed, but it is not important, we are talking about people, not water melon). actually between 1911-19 2,5 million Turks (most of them civilians were murdered, two of them my granfathers). I know it does not justify the use of violence against her own citizens by the state, but we are talking about history, not politics. And everyone knows that history is written by historias but evaluated by politicians. The question is, Jewish people are willing to be politician in this sense? I am reading articles on j.post, haaretz and here everday and always see the same picture: people from us with armenian background just post the same comment in every issue btw israel-turkey, no matter what the issues are. you can imagine what their posts are. of course you can talk about armenian events despite all my words. but, my friend, just be honest, I wish Turkish government would not do that massacres (if they really did deliberately). anyway it is too late. so, in turn, can you say that IDF must stop to use cluster missiles, tanks etc. against 1.500.000 arabs? because it is not histor as 1915, it is present and we can stop it. I dont like erdoan and his style, but he is not the matter, the matter is he just wanted to multiply his voters by using this issue. he is just making use of a truth. will israeli public keep to abuse erdogan instead of confronting the truth? you may say that what about the qassams, and i would say that, "come on man, come on, it is not about qassams it is about almost 50 years occupation which is expanding day by day". with regards...

and you know it well. Your posts are not "pro-peace" or legitimate criticisms of Israel given in good faith, but read like malicious slanders delivered provocatively and with great regularity. It would be a great pleasure for me and others to expose the weaknesses of your arguments, had they been delivered with a modicum of respect, but it is clear that you simply have an axe to grind, and therefore deserve responses in kind. BSNews. We are not blind to the well-documented facts. Stop acting as though the Year 0 started with Ayalon belittling the Turkish ambassador (which he apologized for). You are deliberately ignoring the countless furious irrational denunciations and diplomatic abuses that Turkey launched at Israel, for which Israel was willing to the turn the other cheek for the sake of the 'friendship'. First blood was drawn at Davos, when Erdogan treated Peres with a most unacceptable disrespect. As for the Haaretz talkback forums, Matty, to call them anything other than anti-Zionist occupied territory is simply disingenuous. Many of my rebuttals, which were far more mild than some of the obscenely venemous anti-Israel, anti-Jewish rants on those forums, were never published. It seems that the Haaretz editors are hopelessly under the spell of the "anti" crowd (the chief editor once even said "Israel should be raped"), so I do not bother even to read it any more. But you should not distract yourself from the bottom line: Israel will continue to do what is necessary to survive in the tough neighborhood it is in. Mistakes will be made from time to time, but Israel will survive and prosper, much to your obvious horror. Good Sabbath!

Well, if a similar TV program aired in Israel towards Turkey, I am sure that Erdogan and Turkish media would go ballistic and new harsher responds from Erdogan again would make him a hero in the Arab states and he will keep his regular votes from “his” people in Turkey. Turkish newspapers will sell more and TV ratings would go higher. Most importantly Turkish people would cut the ties with Israel. So I can’t see Israel’s winning point in this. It is so childish to think that Mr, Erdogan would or could apologize from Israel, he doesn’t apologize from his own people for his bad behavior where will he get the quality to apologize from Israel? He is as bad as Ayalon. He is not a politician. He is a PM now it’s just because there is no one better to replace him in Turkey. Simple… by chance if he resigns or passes away someone worse would take his seat. We need to come to the bottom point here, Israel needs to stop bombing and Israeli people needs to see the people on the other side are equal to them. Another humanbeing.14 is not equal to 1400 and its normal to be criticized. One more thing, well Thanks to Ayalon , the company which shots the TV series “Valley of the wolfs” now decided that they will make a movie now (Valley of the wolfs: Palestine), so you were disturbed about that TV series , now a new movie coming out. We will see if the Turkish officials would do something about it, because about a year ago they closed the TV channel for few days and stopped the TV series. TV series started again on different channel and still goes on. There is so much to be done in the Middle East, Iran needs to stop Hezbollah, Israel and Palestine needs to solve their problems , Turkish voters needs to vote for new PM, Ayalon and Lieberman needs to resign etc etc. Finally, this is my opinion, you can criticize Turkey for Armenian issue, Cyprus issue or Kurdish issue etc …but by criticizing Turkey you won’t achieve anything. You don’t benefit from criticizing Turkey. On the other hand, Turkish PM gets stronger in Turkey and in the Arab States and gets some respect from the west too. So he is not losing anything, how about Israel?

YES İT İS. YES. THANK YOU BEEN FRIEND TO WARN US. YES. YES ATİLLA. I AGREE WITH YOUR POINT.

Goksel, comparing death-toll in a confrontation is a very wrong and demagogic way of measuring blame. According to this twisted logic, if Israel didn't equip its soldiers with shrapnel-proof vests, didn't warn its citizens of incoming rockets with sirens, and didn't provide them shelters - then the Israeli death toll would have been higher, and this would have gained us a bit more of the world's sympathy. Clearly this line of reasoning is absurd. Having more casualties does not make you morally right. Furthermore, you are very quick to blame Israel for killing Palestinians, but you easily ignore the facts that a. Israel has withstood their rocket attacks for 8 years prior to acting (where was Turkey's criticism of those rockets?), b. Israel spread leaflets and made phonecalls warning Palestinian civilians to leave dangerous areas, and did everything in its power to avert civilians casualties, c. most of the 1350 dead Palestinians were armed terrorists, and d. the rest of the casualties were unfortunate human shields, cynically used by Hamas. As far as Hamas is concerned, the more Palestinians dying, the better! They gladly sacrifice their own people to get the world media attention. If your country cared so much about the Palestinians, it should publish a TV serious about the monstrosities of Hamas, not the IDF. Anyway, your blind accusation of Israel and your ignorance of all these facts proves how biased your media is, to educate you people to believe we are such monsters. And if you don't take my words about Cast Lead, take them from an unbiased, neutral expert on the topic of war management - Col. Richard Kemp, the commander of the British forces in Afghanistan. And it's not like you could ever blame the Brits for being pro-Israeli... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX6vyT8RzMo As for Erdogan's political considerations, I understand them well, but your country's internal considerations are of no relevance to us. We feel insulted by your Prime Minister and by your TV series, and after the apology we issued, we wish to see some gesture of goodwill from you. Fidel, you have written at great lengths trying to explain the Armenian holocaust and portray your country as victim of bad international press on that matter. But as someone so sensitive to disinformation, you then go on to say that Erdogan "is making use of the truth" regarding what happened in Gaza. Well, is he really? What makes you so sure this is "the truth"? If you really want to know the truth, I suggest you'd spend the same energies you spent studying the Armenian issue, on what really happened during Cast Lead. You can start by watching the link I provided. Regards to both you.

Tahl you miss a point. I told you that I investigate on Armenian massacre, and i am saying "massacre". the problem is, do you call operation cast lead as "massacre"? you give a link, so is it my turn to give link about cluster bomb over gaza which was forbidden by geneva convention? yeah maybe right, it was not massacre and i am wrong about "the truth". thank you for your "truth", i am enlightened, am i am relieved.. 1.500.000 million people are safe with Idf moral ground behind the great wall which reminds me 1943 ghettos in eastern europe.

What did Israel expect when they appointed a racist Moldavian bouncer thug as Foreign misister?

Listen to yourself. You criticize Israel for violating the Geneva convention on one occasion, while offering not one word of criticism to Hamas who violated the Geneva convention, as well as other countless human rights - on a much larger basis. This is called hypocrisy. Anyway, so long as you only see the effects without the cause, so long as you measure IDF and Hamas using a double-standard, and so long as you completely ignore all the valid points I raised in my earlier posts - then I'm sorry, but despite the goodwill from both of us - we have no chance of reaching an understanding. This will conclude my posting in this article. I wish you a good weekend.

Ayalon has just embarrassed Israel, instead of I don't know, trying to do something that will help Israel in the long term like starting direct peace talks with Syria (the Palestinian negotiations are hopeless and will remain so as long as there are 2 Palestinian governemnts), he prefers to do a childish gesture and humilliate the Turkish ambassador. Yes, Erdogan is openly hostile to Israel. But States are permanent, while governments just come and go, Erdogan won't keep his post forever and Israel should aim to keep its strategic relationship with Turkey. And, if Turkey doesn't want this, if hostility to Israel becomes a State policy then Israel should reciprocate by doing meaningful things like recognizing the Armenian Genocide and condemning Turkey's treatment of Kurds, not insult Turkey and cry like a child when the Turks get pissed. Ayalon should leave his post.

You are right, I miss one point. But it does not justify to use of IDF such violence to Plaestinians. Hamas might had violated the convention, but how? by using cluster bombs, by using civlians as human shield, by using chemical weapons like white phosporus? For me, it s the hypocrisy: you are trying to equalize violences from both sides. However anyone knows that Hamas terrorist actions and violence cannot be compared with Israel state terrorism. In anyway, I have nothing to loose. I feel safe, it is the Israeli citizens who not feel that. Thats why they promote radical politicians like Lieberman and that is the result: Israeli ministry of foreign affairs in ankara and tryin not to loose Turkey. I wish good weeekend to you too.

Your right Matty. Its always good to exchange views, and in this forum 'opinions' You have had some very interesting posts. Tahe em' or leave em'. The worry is when someone like the foul Hess of bbs (buncha bull$#@! news), and his minion Wringer piggyback onto your view in order to espouse their own . The more you know about those that "agree" with you, the scarier it gets. "Israel is risking its own future by belligerently and violently trying to cling to stolen land and religious delusions">Hess@ dead bbs news. Are you in with Hess's view or not?