Livni, Barak 'wanted for war crimes' in Poland
Tzvika Brot
Published: 27.01.10, 09:00
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JL   (01.27.10)
2. The curse of Israel. The Poles
Jojo ,   PRTWASHNY   (01.27.10)
Surprises?, not at all. Poles are and remain the most vicious anti semites since time immemorial. The killings, the pogroms before WWII. Passing on their odious expertise and "know how" to the hordes of nazis, and the slaughter of Jewish survivors AFTER the war. All this, under the watchful eye and benediction of their church's hierarchy.
3. T #2: You are so right!
David ,   Karmiel, Israel   (01.27.10)
The Poles were the only people who continued to kill Jews after the Holocaust!
4. #2, #3 stop this onesidedness...
Krzysztof ,   Warsaw,Poland   (01.27.10)
when I read such posts,really cannot stand.Who will educate you that at that time some of Jews were complicit in communist crimes?Some 35% of the directorate of communist's security apparatus were (unfortunately) people of Jewish descent,despite that in 1945 Jews were less than 1% of population.Some were torturing and/or killing the anticommunist underground leaders caught in jails. Also read about massacre in Koniuchy made by Jewish communist partisans.Stop presenting these topics with total whitening of Jews in Poland and total blackening of Poles there,because it only brings more bitterness on both sides.Remind you that half of the trees in Yad Vashem's is grown in honour of the polish Righteous ones.
5. to all the bashers this wasn't done by
ghostq   (01.27.10)
poles, you think Muslim population immigrant there, think againe with the help of lefties.
6. are hamas/fatah/hizbullahsyrian terrorists wanted by poland?
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (01.27.10)
Arn-Orao. ,   Sweden-Srbia.   (01.27.10)
8. many polish nazi dogs still walk free
and never saw the courtroom after World war 2. Not any Lithuanian was evre trialed for warcrimes in WW2 while most of our family was murdered in WW2 by Lithuanians and not by Germans.
9. War crimes
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (01.27.10)
Barak and Livni could have easily avoided this. They could have sued Goldstone for slander or have him arrested when he came to Israel. They could have agreed to gone on trial in the Hague and proven that Goldstone is a two-bit lawyer paid to defame Israel. Instead, they hide behind their diplomatic immunity. If they think they are innocent, Barak and Livni should agree to be tried so that the Goldstone report can finally be disproved.
10. Krakow - jewish quarter
Christian ,   Norway   (01.27.10)
I was once in the city of Krakow wandering in the streets (late at night) looking for some fastfood after a long railtravel from Prague. I stopped a young very nice couple and asked them where to go. They were happy to show me to the food, and invited me to a afterparty in a appartment close where we stood. This was in the middle of the old jewish quarter they told me and smiled. OK, and said say yes to the invitation. Then we walked for five minutes and entered a very old and bad apartment. What first shocked me was a big banner on the wall in Arabic and ppl smoking shisha and listen to arabic music. They they put on a video with Israeli soldiers in some fights with Palestinians and started to dance and shoud ‘who’s the terroist’ I was more or less shocked by all this saw in this apartment. I did not feel well at all. The ppl was so nice in the first place, but totally transformed into those shouting ppl. I had many thought while I was inside. I was thinking about the jewish family living here once that was killed and now this apartment is a cave with ppl who cherish Arabic propaganda! My point is that there is quite a big radical group in Kracow and I bet they are the one who made those ‘wanted’ posters. That was a bad memory for the rest of my life.
11. #4 dont make me laug
Krzysztof ,   Krzysztof Piasecki   (01.27.10)
Poland is moving downwards? Actually it was the one and only European country with positive economic growth during the crisis. Any comment? Dont call me "slavic brother", as I am half Jew. Sincerely thanks for suggestions to join Russia:We had her occupation for two centuries. The rest is such a nonsense,that I will not even start commenting. Of course making war against newly created Ukraine was nonsense.But did you forget about later alliances with Petliura? And you know what? You should ask your late ministers of Sweden's government in 1981, for publicly expressing satisfaction to commies quenching the Solidarity movement and introducing the martial law by the generals. Do you people really need such idiotic small talks?
12. # 6 Victimization monopoly
Ian   (01.27.10)
They don't keep whining/bemoaning then bashing Poland every year
13. #10 Christian
Krzysztof ,   Warsaw, Poland   (01.27.10)
Christian, your bad experience with this squat of left-wingers could have happened everywhere in Europe, recently Norway being on a forefront of such groups.Please take into account the other side of attitudes of Cracovia inhabitants toward Jewish culture expressed in fact,that the annual Jewish festival in Kazimierz (Jewish district of Cracow) is attended by huge crowds counting up to 20 thousands people. There were nearly no public demonstrations against Cast Lead in Poland.Take a look at the site where the Polish performance artist paints right around now murals sounding 'I miss you Jew'-this action was noticed by mainstream Polish media and has a wide,often positive response.So take other aspects into account too. Toda...
14. to #7 a think the other slavic brothers aka
ghostq   (01.27.10)
Russia is the source of all your mess, so y r you blaming the polska guy? for someone else mayham, as for religioun yeah I over heard the catholic problem.
15. Reply to Mr. Krzysztof # 4
Jojo ,   PRTWASHNY   (01.27.10)
Dear sir. I understand your indignation. While I cannot agree or disagree with you, History is not in your favor. The church who commands enormous power in your country did not lift a finger, not only during the " extermination phase ", but many, many years before and AFTER. The powers to be in Poland should have made a "slight" effort in removing the ' muslim' posters. With the so-called reward, the apprehension of the culprits should present no problem. Let's us rationalise; no posters, no Ynet article, no comments, and no bringing back a very painful past. I never met my Grand Parents on both sides, nor any of my numerous uncles, ants,cousins, and more. ALL incinerated.....!
16. Gaza War
J ,   Tel Aviv   (01.27.10)
Did Israeli leaders think they can kill over 1000 people in Gaza and be loved for it? Gush Katif was a mistake from the beginning (Apartheid) and our abrupt departure created a power vacuum filled by terrorists (ditto Lebanon): no Israeli analyst foresaw this??? Now people (humans beings) living in Southern Israel and Gaza are suffering from the ineptitude of successive Israeli governments. Thing are only going to get worst: the number of Arabs (Palestinian, Israeli Arabs) living in Israel/Gaza/WB is almost equal to the number of Jews - we won't be able to hold onto that "only democracy in the ME" much longer.
17. livni, barak
debbie ,   israel   (01.27.10)
TO IAN: You are right. They probably don't moan and whine, and bash Poland. They're too busy steering planes full of families into skyscrapers and killing 3000 people at once, slaughtering and maiming innocent people all over the world, young people dancing in discos, eating pizza, riding buses to school, massacreing innocents in hotels and jewish centers in India, bombing loads of passengers on trains in Spain and England, bringing down jets, OH WHAT THE HELL - there's too many to mention. Why, with all those activities, how could they have time to moan and bash Poland?
18. Christian from Norge
Mongo ,   Paris   (01.27.10)
Thanks for your interesting post. I can sympathize with your experience as I too have had an experience similar to you, not in Poland but in thr UK. What I felt was hard to explain. I guess it is one when you encounter pure evil. Everybody has a choice in life - either live life in cold darkness void of happiness. Today, I try to avoid such people and stay in the warmth of light.
19. to #10 thank you that is some story
ghostq   (01.27.10)
and yeah it's just proven my point Muslims got there as well. and they r fueling the radicals distorted mnd, who enjoy the outcome of the past.
20. No. 16 J
NYC Girl   (01.27.10)
So now it's about the Gaza War? And what the hell was the excuse before that? The Palestinians and other Muslims have killed far more people in deliberate attacks (not in a defensive war), yet the world still doesn't exhibit the kind of enmity and racism toward them that they do toward Israel? I wonder why that is?
21. No comment.... lol
Marco ,   Spain   (01.27.10)
22. #15 reply
Krzysztof ,   Warsaw Poland   (01.27.10)
Dear Jojo.First please consider that we might share J genes,ok?and the extermination of Jews you talk about happened in my family to a large extent.Still,take into account that Poles does not equal church despite nominal membership-you can be surprised,what is the opinion of many Poles about church's hierarchy.Regarding 'muslim' poster.This article did not even mention the number of those posters:maybe there were 2-3 of them placed by 10 people and that's what made headline?And the bottom line is there is freedom of speech in Poland-posters cannot be so easily removed.As I said,demos against Cast Lead were minimal in Poland.And to your "rationalization":whatever posters,noone has right to generalize.Otherwise someone else acquires right to resuscitate skeletons in Israel's wardrobe each time a Palestinian is killed.So,shall we agree on a principle that generalizations should be avoided? Best regards.
23. The pot calling the kettle black
Ben ,   Gush Etzion   (01.27.10)
Poland is one of the last countries to call anyone war criminals Even after the Russians liberated Poland from the Nazis the Poles were still killing Jewish survivors
24. Europe has learned nothing after 65 years.
Wise Saba ,   Netivot   (01.27.10)
They are just an anti semitic as ever.
25. #23 Ben please stop painting black whole Poland
Krzysztof ,   Warsaw Poland   (01.27.10)
On one hand it is true that some 1500 Jews were killed by the bandits in late 1940's, but don't forget that in turn people of Jewish descent in Poland had disproportionate share in security apparatus, particularly in highest levels of directorate.Some were torturing and killing the leaders of anticommunist underground. Really, people, don't resuscitate the same skeletons each and every time anything good or bad happens in Poland. Try to realize that relations were complex,and Jews too had some share in making them such... As I said,demos against Cast Lead were minimal in Poland.Also antisemitic vandalism in Poland is minimal these days.Compare to such France for example.
26. No. 20 NYC Girl
J ,   Tel Aviv   (01.27.10)
Livni and Barak are wanted (warrants) because they orchestrated the Gaza offensive and gace the green light. don't give me the shpiel about what Muslims and Arabs did: are you trying to justify death? If my government is going to kill in my name, I want to be damn sure it was really a last alternative. All I can see are wasted opportunities and mistakes + an arrogant, corrupt political elite that more concerned with getting reelected and protecting their cronies than bringing peace. Any half-baked analyst that claims to understand the ME (ie half of Israel) could have predicted the Gaza war when Gaza was evacuated. It's arrogant and self denying to think that Gaza would become some sort of peaceful & happy haven when half the population depends on UN handouts and pretty much live in no mans land (Gaza isn't in Egypt and ain't a part of Israel: where is it?)
27. To: No. 4
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (01.27.10)
Oh, please. "Righteous Poles," indeed! Would that include the citizens of the town of Jedwabne, who hedred 1600 Jews into a barn on July 10, 1941, and then set the barn on fire? Would that include the Polish kapos in Krakow-Plaszow concentration camp who were, my mother said, ten times worse than any German or Ukrainian? What happened to all those "righteous" Polish partisans who refused to fight alongside Jews in the Warsaw uprising? Were those "righteous" Poles who massacred some fifty Jews in the city of Kielce in 1946? Where were all the "righteous" Poles during the Gomulka-inspired pogroms in 1968? Don't be too quick to pat yourself on the back. Just the other day a Polish bishop of the Roman Catholic Church complained that he was "tired " of hearing about the Holocaust. On the subject of the Roman Catholic Church, was it not Cardinal Glemp who spoke at the dedication ceremony of that disgraceful and vile Carmelite convent built in Auschwitz? Yes, it was. He spoke for two hours, and the only Jew he mentioned was Jesus Christ. Who did not die in Auschwitz. On the other hand, several million Jews did. Glemp's despicable speech puts a whole new spin on the words "war criminal." You are a fool. Yes, in 1945, Jews accounted for less than 1% of the population of Poland. Have you forgotten why? "Torturing and/or killing anti-Communists?" I invite you to document that. The Jews that remained in Poland following the war did so largely because they were sick, elderly or did not want to leave the place where so many of their families were massacred while the Poles looked on and applauded. Wherever in the world did you get the delusional idea that one-half of the trees in Yad Vashem are grown in honor of Poles? I guess it stems from the same delusion that prompted you to suggest that in the aftermath of the War, Jews were active participants in the Communist Party in Poland. Idiot. Can you spell "Stalinist purge of Jews?" Take your filthy garbage and peddle it elsewhere. Poles and anti-Semitism go together like peanut butter and jelly. For you to claim otherwise or talk about a scant handful of trees commemorating a scant handful of Poles that sought to protect the Jews of Poland during the war is grossly insulting. Did you know that some Poles who undertook the risk did so for quite a lot of money? Did you know that there were no shortage of Poles who took money from Jews and promised to hide them, only to immediately betray them to the Gestapo? We are very well aware of the history of Jews in Poland and, frankly, it isn't something that Poles should boast about. Moreover, the fact of the matter is that Poland was soaked in Jewish blood long before September 1, 1939. When were you planning to acknowledge that disgraceful aspect of the history of the Jews in Poland? Right. That’s what I thought. Why am I not in the least bit surprised?
28. To: No. 25
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (01.27.10)
"Really, people, don't resuscitate the same skeletons each and every time anything good or bad happens in Poland." Translation: Ignore history because it is way too embarrassing to Poles. Poles much prefer to pretend that the Holocaust never happened, so stop raising the subject, because it reminds the Poles of their collaboration -- active or passive -- in the slaughter of millions of Jews. "Try to realize that relations were complex,and Jews too had some share in making them such." Translation: Poles prefer to blame the victims rather than face the truth about their ugly past.
29. To #10 Krzysztof
Christian ,   Norway   (01.27.10)
Dont misunderstand me. I know those groups are all over, and in Norway as well whitch we badly experienced the 8th of january 09 in the middle of Oslo. This was only to tell me about the story that happen me in Kracow. It was a very special feeling beeing in a house where there normally lived jews before the was and now the same houses where used to do propaganda agains jews and Israel. Bad feeling - i got unwell. Two days later i went to Auswitz and Birkenau. When all that said i regulary travel to Poland mostly Poznan and my experiences with Poland is in gerneral very good, so don't misunderstand my post.
30. to Sarah B - 6000 is a "handful"?
Justine   (01.27.10)
I can't search for links now, so I have to rely on my memory, but there are a couple of things. 1. The number of Poles commemorated in Yad Vashem is around 6000. It's the biggest national group and it may very well be half of all commemorated there, maybe you could check before accusing somebody of delusions. 2. Yad Vashem does not allow cases where Jews were saved for money 3. Yad Vashem count is by no means comprehensive so do not get the entirely false idea that there were only 6000 Poles who risked their lives for Jews 4. Did you get my response in the other discussion we had regarding Danes? They never wore starts, it's a myth 5. It seems Danes were paid too. In an interview with Gross (hope you know who he is) the journalist mentioned new studies showed that Danish fishermen who helped smuggling Jews out of Denmark were paid 6. Yes, communists tortured and killed tens of thousands of people in post-war Poland. In general, Poland wasn't "peaceful" until about 1948. Before then, there was the communist crack-down; anti-communist resistance killing communists; almost a regular war in the South-East (between Soviets and communist Polish forces and various anti-communist/Ukrainian groups), etc. 7. Jews are not responsible for communism in Poland nor for what some Jewish individuals did, but there WERE a couple of dozens or hundreds of Jews in prominent positions in UB or the communist party in Poland. Google Wolinska for example.
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