the two psukim he quotes dont say anything about women's obligations and whether they are the same as men's, only that they are included in the covenant. The first one is an especially precarious example, since the whole dialogue between Moses and Paro is unclear. In any case, the Torah at a pshat level is a fairly unegalitarian document, and it is only thanks to the rabbis and rabbinic tradition that it is as compatible with modern sensibilities as it is.

1) In Shemot 11 there is nothing about covenant, but it is very explicit about worshiping. "WE WILL ALL GO... WITH OUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS... WE MUST OBSERVE THE LORD'S FESTIVAL!" Seems pretty explicit to me? At least when it comes to observations? 2) Rabbi Graetz's point was that egalitarianism - to ALLOW A WOMAN to be participant in various religious events and not to confide her to house - has a deep basis in Torah. Contrary attitude would be, as I encountered, in various "mega-orthodox" ("I do not want to watch a woman in the eye and I do not want to drink a wine that was transported in a truck that was not driven by Jewish driver, no matter if it is yayin mevushal") communities. That attitude is - woman is for home, do not bring kids in synagogue etc. Maybe you misunderstood?

i did understand john. 1) It says "we will all go" but it doesnt say HOW they will observe, WHO will observe, etc. meaning the daughters might be required to be there but not required to do everything the same as men. Same point for his second quotation. 2)I know what he wants to believe, but I think it stems more from a modern sense of equality than the Torah. Certainly if these are the best to quotes he could find, I don't think he can claim egalitarianism has a deep basis in the text. I'm not haredi myself, and I agree sometimes their approach to separation of women and men is excessive. But I dont think you can argue at the halachic level over ezrat nashim, women not reading from torah, wearing talitot, and other things feminist Jews have tried to institute. Moreover I find the need to do whatever men do just because they do it a bit silly.

I'm not Jewish, but what I read into the verses quoted is this: 1. Maybe Pharaoh intent wanted to hang onto women and children as hostages to make sure the men didn't cook up mischief.' 2. It seems that women and even the strangers among the ancient Hebrews were meant to be included in God's promise. Reading of the mayhem created today by some people with respect to woomen and converts, one has to wonder what they do read and what they choose to ignore.

I'm sorry I butchered the English language in item 1 of my previous post. Maybe it was Pharaoh's intent or Pharaoh wanted to.....To put it in Southern, that "Pharaoh intent wanted" don't make a lick of sense and just don't get it.

it is a shame that many jews today do know what the Torah sais and what it means.

See this paper on egalitarianism. It is detailed and 100% halachichly sound. http://www.halakhah.org/

Jewish women who are true "bnoth yisroel" are always happy to be true feminists...a true feminist is one who leaves all spiritual chores to men, because it is incumbent upon men to do the tikun. Women may do everything men do...except that our Jewish women are smart enough not to involve themselves with men's tasks. Those who are not true feminists (bnoth yisroel) are usually the ones who have a great inferiority complex. They are part of the erev rav complex. They need to show that they are just as capable as men to do mitzvos. This is not necessary.

as if Moshe actually wouldve only taken the men had the women not been needed for the holiday. of course the women are part of the covenant they are Jewish. The fact is that men and women are not the same. they each have their respective role and you my friend have been brainwashed by the womens lib movement. Wake up

And who, exactly, decides which are men's tasks and which are women's and what is and isn't necessary? At the risk of sounding arrogant, God was kind enough to give me an exceptionally logical brain and though my mother died when I was 16, she drilled into the heads of her 3 daughters that they have 3 God-given gifts: 1.A conscience, 2. good brains and 3. time, and that they are to listen to #1 and to never waste the other 2, if they want to live good lives. I couldn't care less about feminism, but don't force me into a mold into which I wasn't intended to fit. Although you wouldn't believe it seeing me, trust me when I say that I'm much better at dealing with real estate, PC issues, not to mention faulty faucets, than I am with cooking or to whatever else I'm supposed to be relegated as a female. I've always had men's jobs and got paid accordingly, because I was very good at those. I'm now a 71 year old widow. After my husband died, I didn't miss a beat to continue running what used to be "our' business quite successfully by myself, and for which, by their own admission, a lot of men wouldn't have the wherewithal. If you think I'm an odd bird, my daughter not only has a master's degree in computer science, but another one in accountancy, having earned her the top position in the IT Audit department of a large bank. I'd like for someone to tell her what and where her place is and that she should amuse herself with girly things!!! Better yet, she has 2 daughters, who seem to be cut from the same cloth. All of the above being said, my best lady friend is Jewish, has a master's degree in gerontology and runs a very large Senior Center. She earned her degree without any help from her parents, based on the exact thinking peddled in your tb(s.) Women with half a brain are neither raving feminists nor do they suffer from inferiority complexes. The latter are much more common in men, who are scared of intelligent women. It's a lame argument meant to put someone on the defensive, aka heads I win; tails you lose. Nice try, but no cigar! How dare some people disparage God's gifts, because they were given to women?? When and on whom did God bestow the right to tell another human being how and with what to occupy his/her mind? Judaism doesn't have a monopoly on that strange attitude and that is why I no longer have any use for religion. God wouldn't forgive me, if I listened to other people, regardless of their designation, instead of using the brain with which He/She so kindly blessed me. In other words, if my “unfeminine” outlook on life offends some people, I'll gladly drive them to the nearest lake into which they can jump for all I care.

I enjoyed your talkback immensely. Not only that, I am very proud for your achievements and success. May you alway be blessed and happy. I believe however that my comments were not directed at women who have made a choice to exhalt logic above intelligence. All of what you and your offsprings have created has nothing to do with intelligence but rather a strong desire and determination to achieve something you like. Well done in that department. Intelligence have nothing to do with achievemnets but rather knowing the Infinite (God) who already provided you with infinite paths of chosing what you want to do and be. You have obviously chosen yours. Good for you. What else do you know? Think about it. God did not ask you to worship him, however He did ask of us not to crosswire and short circuit positive and negative. As long as you realize that you require males for procreation, you are doing fine. Behatzlacha

You are a coward of the worst kind and yours is the typical response of someone, who doesn't know how to deal with "uppity" females. You hide what you don't have the nerve to say out loud behind convoluted catch phrases and empty "compliments." Other than in myths and fairy tales, where, when and how did God "ask" anyone to do or not do anything???? I don't know about you, but I don't "hear God's voice. The fact that you believe He/She "talks" to you about "crossed wires" and "short circuits" says a great deal about you. God being unknown and unknowable, but the Creator Of All That Is, has it ever occurred to you that homosexuality and lesbianism, to name your "short circuits" and "crossed wires," are, in fact, only other aspects of His/Her nature??? Maybe they exist for the purpose of testing ourselves as to exactly how far our kindness and tolerance towards other human beings really goes. Based on your tb, you seem to be flunking that one. But there's hope for you, yet. Unlike some other "learned" guardians of morals and interpreters of God's intentions, at least, you didn't blame homosexuals for earthquakes. To end my rant on an amusing note, here's a joke for you: A Greek and an Italian were debating who had the superior culture. The Greek says, "We have the Parthenon". The Italian says, "We have the Coliseum". The Greek says "We had great Mathematicians". The Italian says "We had the Roman Empire.". This went on and on until the Greek says: "We invented sex." The Italian looks puzzled, stares at the Greek, and, ever so slowly replies: "That may be true, but we introduced it to women" And on that note, Shabbat Shalom!

i do need your help, i am a missionary in training, i will be in time be coming over to israel to do my missionary work, my heart is the israelie people,i would like to understand the people,so i can relate to them...i have peace in my heart about this...just need help and direction. thing is i have my training in preschool work with 2 and 3 year olds....and if any of the preschools need someone here i am....i am willing. blessings of hashem sharon mary yount