As acknowledge and ruled illegal by the Israeli Supreme Court back in 2005 (even though the IDF continues to employ this cowardly practice) the IDF have used on many, many occasions innocent Palestinian civilians as Human Shields. Mark you accuse Hamas of war crimes by using innocent civilians as human shields, are you man enough to acknowledge that the IDF have (as per Israeli court ruling/reports from HR Orgs/by the IDF’s own admission) have also committed this particular war crime?

Israel has never, never in its history, has initiated a military action offensively aimed to either take over territory, take over natural resources or rule over people for their own sake of such actions, never! All of Israel's military activities have been defensive in nature: Defensive of Israel's sovereignty and that of the life and well being of its citizens. This has also been the nature of Israel's military action in Gaza, after eight consecutive years of beeing shelled by mortars, rockets, suicide bombers, roadside boms and small peapons. Israel would have been justified to attack much earlier, but has hoped that to end the Hamas offensive activities against Israel's civilians without a military action. Refering to Israel's response as "offensive" is totally misplaced!

That is - those civilians and infrastructure that was still protected under Intl Law. However, once used for military purpose, the civilians and their infrastructure LOSE that protection. Sderot, Ashkelon, etc. were not use for military purposes nor were the citizens.....ergo, Hamas is not only guilty of targeting Israeli civilians, but harming Gazan ones as well.

what are you babbling about? The Israeli army used arab neighbors of terrorists to warn the terrorists in their houses to give up or face the consequences. Nobody got hurt. Hamas is using civilian crowds to shoot from and to launch rockets from, and then accusing Israel of war crimes when fire is returned. Go and check the facts before you babble

"William did you know that you are just like Cynthia and Bob H?" I admit, I am the jokester sometimes and play a decent game of golf, but c'mon....you flatter me.

So please take my not answering your postings for what it is - an indication that I have a life outside of pandering egotistical people like yourself who live off of confrontation and self-indulgent hatred. I suggest relieving some of that tension the way BBS like to do it - by writing endless letters to Obama about what his Administration should do...for this or that. But to answer your question - I cannot make the decision as I do not know all of the facts. I was taught very early on that one should "believe only half of what he sees and none of what he hears". That means, lending no credulence to your tirades that the IDF use human shields, just as I didn't when the "Pals" and the UN claimed a massacre in Jenin. Just like I looked with skepticism at videos of of the IDF in Bilin which showed "brutality" until you see the wider picture of violent stone and molotov cocktail throwing, and Hamas holding candles to prove a siege when even "Pals" journalists claimed it was a lie. Still, if what you say is true, that the IDF abuses civilians, why do so many kids love to ride those Israeli APCs as the travel through Nablus? Seems a risky way to get your jollies if the IDF is such war criminals, no?

It seems you are doing your best to make a case supporting the use of human shields by Hamas. There are quite a bit of videos showing hamas terrorists running up to school children, grabbing them, and dragging them in front of their bodies to detract IDF fire. Are there videos or some proof of this depicting your claims against the IDF? You say the IDF currently uses this tactic. Can you cite when, where, with whom? I'm not calling you a liar, I'm just saying I don't believe a word you say.

Yet another example of Sarah B trying to weasel attention way from Israel. Lets take a look at how many non-related subjects that Sarah B tried to interject into the discussion to deflect attention way from Israel; NATO, Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan and Waziristan, Turkey, Kurds, Basque civilians, Spanish troops, Sudan, Indonesia, Iran, Russia, Chechnya, Allied forces, Germany, United States, Tokyo, Vietnam and Cambodia, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This is a standard fool’s defense eg: point out the failings/war crimes of every country under the sun except for Israel. “Matty," the subject is war crimes, is it not? That is a legal charge and, as such, is entirely relevant in terms of how war crimes are defined. The law is all about consistency, "Matty," and spurious charges leveled against Israel have no validity unless proven in a court of law; the court of law has no business addressing the issue unless they agree also to hear other relevant charges that may be brought. You are not a lawyer, "Matty," and should refrain from discussing legal matters -- unless you enjoy making a fool of yourself. Personally, I think you are rather desperate for the attention. “This is like a serial killer standing up in court and saying that s/he cannot be judged until all other serial killers are judged and sentenced!!” “Matty,” exactly what are you attempting to extrapolate here? War crimes and crimes against humanity are SPECIFICALLY designed to parallel the concept first set forth at Nuremberg; the Milosevic reinforced this and stressed the need for applying precedent. I note that war crimes and charges of crimes against humanity must be rendered in all cases, or in none at all – otherwise, there is no validity to either. You cannot pick and choose whom and whom not to charge. By the way, serial killers are not tried for war crimes or crimes against humanity – they are tried for criminal acts in highly specific jurisdictions under a variety of different criminal codes. Your analogy is inapposite, irrelevant and puerile – but oh-so-typical of the nonsense you spout. “t is a good thing that Sarah B is not an attorney otherwise she would be laughed out of court with such a defense.” LOL – dream on, loser. “Sarah B also shows her ignorance on common knowledge.” LOL – dream on, loser.

“She said: Clearly the IDF *do* use Palestinians as human shields to hide behind as it is recorded fact that the The Israeli Supreme Court issued a formal ruling in 2005 stating that the practice violates international law. Any child can Google this fact and see that it is true.” It was a hotly disputed and close ruling with enough credible evidence to the contrary to question the ruling. But I wish to point out that at one point in time, the United States Supreme Court ruled that black individuals were property, not persons. Eventually, the Supreme Court reversed this, and similar rulings. Your point? “Of course the IDF did not stop using innocent civilians as human shields to hide behind as reported by many international and Israeli HR Orgs, we also have testimony from IDF soldiers themselves confirming this cowardly practice.” Do please post reliable and legitimate proof. Sorry, “Matty,” but your mere statements constitute neither. “So Sarah B in light that the Israeli Supreme Court/international and Israeli HR Orgs/the IDF itself/etc have all acknowledged that the IDF use innocent Palestinian civilians as human shields the question is: Do you agree that the IDF have committed a War Crime by using Palestinian Civilians as Human Shields?” No, I do not. It is a simple question Sarah B, yes or no? Yes. Indeed, quite simple. Nearly as simple as you. I do not think that the IDF is guilty of war crimes, and I do not know of any evidence that establishes beyond any doubt that such a charge is warranted.

1. go back and check your facts re ceasefire. what you posted is simply not true. 2. Since when is war a mathematical equation? And you now blame Israel for using millions to build shelters and protect the civilian population, while Hamas used millions to obtain more and more weapons? You must have your head examined!!

Goldstone cited that Israel DID NOT drop phosphorous bombs on Gazans (especially since these don't exist), and the use of white phosphorous during the war was used in conjunction with laws governing its usage. I can see that believing all of the report would jeopardize your own beliefs but accept it all or nothing. You equally lie about the cease-fire - rockets were fired from Gaza into Israel months before the end of the cease-fire. It was Hamas that publicly said "we will not extend the cease-fire" and rockets, mortars began to fly heavily from the moment it ended. Hamas admitted they wanted additional concessions and Israel refused...as it should have. Objective investogators showed that the majority of the 1400 dead were infact men of fighting age, not kids (below 14 years) or women. You also ignore the fact that many buildings destroyed during Cast Lead were so because of Hamas - large IEDs targeting the IDF brought down large buildings, without the IDF ever firing a shot. Multiple explosions of rockets and weapons destroyed mosques and other buildings, not because of an israeli tank shell. You give a lot more credit to Hamas which even the Gazans themselves don't give to Hamas. The only reason "pal" and Israeli civilians are paying a price is because of the Left's love-affair with despots and terrorists - you included.

Excuse me, but Hamas and other terrorist elements initiated the dispute by sending suicide bombers into Israel, launching missiles into Israel, and kidnapping an Israeli soldier. Numbers do not matter. The fact that Hamas' missiles could not hit the broad side of a barn and the Hamas "fighters" are inept cowards who hide behind the skirts of women, the elderly and children does nothing to mitigate that their clear intent was to kill and maim Israeli civilians.

i read all your comments now on and i come to the conclusion that you fail to see the point here. as a decorated soldier who faught in the last gaza war and 1+2 lebanon wars i know exactly how things have been. now i do not say that my army and my country are perfect, nor do i say that we never make mistakes. but i say, that this army is doing much more than any other army in the world to not harm civilians/innocents. we have so many regulations and laws on how to procede a terrorist or a dangerous situation that we are constantly under physical and mental stress of avoiding a mistake that will lead to kill of an innocent and a following trial against us. for example, if a terrorist hold a molotov cocktail running towards you, you are not allowed to kill him, not even shoot to stop or shoot in the air to scare off. there's a regulation that tells us that only when the terrorist is 100m away from you, coming closer you can shoot in the air, and only if he comes closer than 20m you can shoot to hurt, but you can only shoot to kill if the molotov cocktail has "left" his hands towards you. now this is one regulation of many many more we have to live with, and trust me do follow these rules. in regard of your question if the idf has used civilians as human shield is riduculous. im a ranked soldier and i hear about everything going on at the north and south border. i have heard only about 2 seperate incidents of two individual combat groups that are not even mentionable. the group, (which i know the capt. personally) have been shot at by hamas sniper repeatedly on the humvee, that same capt. told the passing civilians to stand in front of the humvee to make the snipers stop firing. there was another incident of another friend of mine who told passing civilians to enter a building that may have had hiding terrorists. dude, if u want to inflict these or maybe one more incidient on the whole israeli army, then go ahead. if i compare these little incidents to the us-army in iraq? haha, wtf? wake up! yes man, i have violated a regulation too once, and you know what, we're not robots, we're humans. we make mistakes. and when you compare the cruel ways the hamas has with the idf you must see the big difference. one of the biggest problems in gaza and in lebanon, is that terrorist dont wear military uniforms. when they die, kids come pick up their weapons and when the camera films the bodies, it looks like civilians. and when hamas shoots rockets from a kindergarden roof, you expect us to just sit tight an wait till its over? matty, you just fail to understand that you are just one of many victims to the propaganda war of the palestinians. the same people who explode in buses, cafees and discos to hurt those same civilians and innocents you're talking about. and again, i do not claim that we're perfect, but we're much better than any other army in the world. thats why we're called the best and the most moral army in the world. in the next tb i will tell go on with some facts for you:

in the last gaza war, i was inside the streets with my soldiers where terrorists were hiding. suddently we see two terrorists crossing the street running and holding a 5-6 year old boy in their hands shooting wildly to our direction. now this incident is not new for us, we've seen this about 20 or 25 times in the last gaza war. so much for civilians as human shield, huh? they would risk the death children from their own people. if i hit the boy by shooting on him, they win their propaganda war. u get it? we had to deal with this every day, even now when theres calm. that's just one story of many like these... :-) cheers dude, i hope you stick your head in your own problems in the future. since you have no clue whats going on, you have no business here. bye bye

Are you so helpless you can't look something up for yourself? ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3387356,00.html ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3151383,00.html ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3154142,00.html ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3461591,00.html ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3691073,00.html After reading these articles the question William is: Have the IDF committed a war crime by using civilians as human shields?

"Actually Israel was occupying and brutally oppressing the Palestinian people long before Hamas appeared on the scene in 1987." And shortly after Cast Lead, several older Gazans have proclaimed they missed the days of early 1980s, before the arrival of Hamas, when Israel ruled the Strip, provided working infrastructure and employment, and Gazans were able to travel themselves to Haifa, freely. I guess this type of "brutality" is ranked up there with "massive starvation" on the backdrop of over-flowing food stalls, smuggled expensive car parts, and new animals for the zoo.

Kol ha'kavod lecha, Gadi. I enjoyed immensely your two posts. Unfortunately, as you may or may not be aware, "Matty" is a virulent hater of both Jews and the State of Israel. Facts are immaterial to "Matty." You are wasting your time -- the last thing on earth "Matty" is interested in is the truth. Thank you for your posts, by the way. You make me proud that I am both Jewish and a citizen of Medinat Israel. P.S. "Matty Groves" of "Fairport" is neither a "he" or a "she" -- it is the name of a folk song made famous by the British folk-rock group Fairport Convention around forty years ago.

Two important points must be noted: The Palestinian rocket attacks from Gaza on Israeli civilian population violated one of the most basic rules of international humanitarian law – the rule of distinction, which requires combatants to aim all their attacks at legitimate targets. Only for Palestinians are innocent Israeli civilians ‘legitimate’ targets. Palestinian authorities in Gaza, Hamas in this case, also violated anti-terrorism provisions of international law by providing a safe haven for Islamic militant terrorists including their own Palestinian terrorists.

"Stupid is as stupid does" Watching you call me an idiot for holding judgement on highly accusations without all the facts, then announce your tirades based on a document where the author himself admits there is NO legal basis for the accusations...is nothing short of comical! I can absolutely say, and will be supported by law, that one is innocent until guilty....that pertains to individuals, and to armies. So, until proven unequivocally, the IDF is NOT guilty of war crimes. Your attempt to make the IDF guilty until proven innocent is both against the norms of judiciary systems AND democracy. But THIS is your proof?? A news paper report and wikipedia?? You would be laughed out of any university for shoddy research and grandstanding...just like Ilan Pappe was when he lost his bid for tenure at Haifa U. By the way - the Ynet link is dead. Apaprently, a testement to how often you actually check facts.

Sarah B: “Clearly the IDF *do* use Palestinians as human shields to hide behind as it is recorded fact that the The Israeli Supreme Court issued a formal ruling in 2005 stating that the practice violates international law.” Matty: “Do you agree that the IDF have committed a War Crime by using Palestinian Civilians as Human Shields?” Sarah B: “No, I do not.” This is what is generally called clinical denial. Anyone with the most basic understanding of International Law knows that under Article 28 of the Fourth Geneva Convention it states: "The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations." Thus it is a War Crime to use civilians as human shields. Israel has ratified the convention in 1951 and is therefore bound by it. Sarah B has acknowledged that the IDF engage in this cowardly practice of using innocent civilians as human shields to hide behind yet she cannot bring herself to acknowledge that this action is a war crime even though International Law clearly states that it is a war crime. As Sarah B advocated carpet bombing of civilian towns/villages/refugee camps and also sees nothing morally wrong with supposedly a ‘professional’ army hiding behind innocent women and children while in combat zones I think it is fair to say that she is an utter hypocrite when she condemns the likes of Hamas for similar war crimes. Most normal people would be appalled at the notion of a trained soldier using a child as a human shield yet Sarah B has no qualms with this cowardly act. Clearly in Sarah B’s schizophrenic mind the IDF can commit all types of War Crimes with no accountability. Suffice to say Sarah B has no moral credibility.

Rockets? Fired at civilian targets? From Gaza into Israel? Nah. Never. Really. Well how 'bout dat? DUH!

"Are you so helpless you can't look something up for yourself?" YOU'RE the one making the accusations. It is incumbent o you to back them up, not me. As I said before, one in innocent until proven guilty...with actual evidence presented by their accuser. If you're too lazy to do so, hire yourself a paralegal.

Its OBVIOUS. its not like they discovered america

matty, sarah didn;t deflect the attention from israel to other countries responsible for war crimes. what she in fact said is this: once all countries involved in war crimes are brought to trial at the hague by the un counsel and by a goldstone report, israel then, will feel that it has not alone been singled out for this treatment. if other countries that really committed war crimes (not on their borders, and not because their countries were ever bombed and they had to defend themselves), then why has there not been the same goldstone report against them? what sarah meant is that when war crimes are comitted by other countries, they have to be brought to the hague as well. and, if only one single country is singled out for this hague treatment by the un, then it is indeed biased and worng. israel will only accept responsibility for these alleged war crimes when it sees others slapped with the very same allegations it has been slapped with. but, israel knows exactly why it was slapped with this odious and fatally rediculous report and this is why it views, not only its rediculous findings, but the mandate and the premise on which it was based, as biased, morbidly one sided and akeen to taking israel's right to self defence and rendering it defenseless in front of a terror organization which the un exempted from responsibility of their actions for 8 long years and after 13,000 millsiles into israel. hameed aboughaze, iranian.