Opinion
The simple facts
Yair Lapid
Published: 01.02.10, 10:01
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31. Mikesailor #26 you are the joke
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (02.01.10)
Mr. Dershowitz is the premier expert on international law in the world. And you are a big mouth bigot.
32. My personal message to Mr. Lapid
Gabor Frankl   (02.01.10)
Mr. Lapid, I don't have the slightest doubt about your bona fides indignation about all these things. You are a good man - a very good mn. (Even if We are on the political oppositre spectrum - you are on the center-left and me on the center-right). What I would like to call your attention honetly, sincerely and genuinely is the following few sentences (if this won't be censored as usual by the site). Most of this raw and unabashed hatred comes/originates from Britain. Stop for a moment! hold on! I DON'T say that countless other states and nations do not harboring anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic sentiments. But none of them HAS what remained of a former glorious empire, i.e.: The British Empire, apart from their MEDIA conglomerates, prime of them the BBC. The prime purveyors of anti-Israel hatred all round our globe. These are not even my words, but of your very own Israeli Ambassador to the UK Ron Prosor. So please think about that, because I did. And be aware WHERE precisely look for the culprits, those culprits who have - relatively - the MOST influence for anti-Israel propaganda in the whole enlightened world. London. I know and I've been there Mr. Lapid! (Please Ynet don't censor my comment!)
33. An answer to your last question...
VICTIMSofARAB TERROR ,   JERUSALEM, ISRAEL   (02.02.10)
BS'D You ask how did we get to the situation where the truth is out of fashion? It was all predicated centuries ago in the TENACH! G-D, Blessed is HIS HOLY NAME warned the Jewish people TO KEEP THE LAWS OF THE T-ORAH IN ERETZ YISRAEL...OR WE WILL SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES! (see website:victimsofarabterror.com
34. Oh, one more sentence left out
Gabor Frankl   (02.02.10)
And don't EVER regard as credible anti-Semitic Jewish opinions as evidenced by their atrocious and outright nauseating smears like "apartheid", "Nazi", "racist", "fascist" and the like. (Even the reliably anti-Israeli European Union's working definition of anti-Semitism registers them as such.) The vast majority of these voices inside Israel come from deeply embittered, old, rich and ideoligically blind Ashkenazi Jews who clearly has serious issues with themselves - psychological issues I mean. And I say this as an Ashkenazi (but pro-Israeli and proud Zionist) Jew myself.
35. Global Mendacity
Shalom Freedman ,   Jerusalem Israel   (02.02.10)
I often wonder at the same thing. The 'facts' are so clear when comparing Israel with its enemies. Why does the world as a whole refuse to see these facts? Ignorance is one answer. Interests is another. The numbers and the money buy the acceptance of the anti- Israel propaganda line. Anti- Semitism is another reason. There are many more. But is sad. It is also outrageous and also frightening. So much of the world the greatest part of the world has blinders on its eyes, and refuses to take them off.
36. hahaha
dahook ,   jerusalem   (02.02.10)
as we returned to the first point it is .... it was ... israil or palastine ... so this article or the left or the right is not my problem ..it is israil problem ..... fokhar yekasser ba3do
37. Why pick on Israel?
James ,   Beer Sheva, Israel   (02.02.10)
Seems some are asking this question. My opinion is, the sanctimonious western world enjoys standing up for whomever they decide is the underdog. For years it was Israel, because of the strength in numbers of the Arabs. When Israel finally became strong, with the greatest air force and army in the world, the world turned to the "poor pitiful" Palis. And the Israeli leadership has allowed this to go on for years now. Kick ass and take names... and to hell with world opinion and U.S. dollars. Maybe Russia will sell that new SU30-mk to Israel? "Aviation Week & Space Technology - Su-30MK Beats F-15C 'Every Time'".
38. I have a question too!
m   (02.02.10)
Why YNET does not write about "Israeli Arabs" in Lod who are marching to the mosque with big PLO flaggs. Not important enough? Inside 5th column is much more important than what the world thinks of us.
39. Anti-
(02.02.10)
40. Anti-Semitism took a respite after the Shoah. It became a...
Eitan ,   Qatzrin, Israel   (02.02.10)
...political incorrect phenomenon. But, then, while still politically incorrect approach, a new way of spewing anti-Jewish venom was found. The substitute for yesteryear's Jew became the Jewish people's nation-state, and the substitute for yesteryear's Judaism became the non-violent national liberation movement of the Jewish people: Zionism. Equipped with these two terms, singling out the Jewish people and its national home; demonizing and de-legitimize its very existence became the way to express that which was not, and still isn't politically correct in western societies - in the Muslim-Arab world however this politically correct business does not apply. There, in mosques, schools, TV, newspapers, radio, books old fashion anti-Semitism celebrates in the most venomous way.
41. Yair's problem.
igal ,   israel   (02.02.10)
There are several problems with Mr.Lapid's presentation: 1.The "security fence" was named a "wall", by the highest judicial body in the world (the world court), after careful consideration of alternative classifications. 2.Furthermore, the world court ruled the wall to be illegal by a majority of 14 to 1. Nowhere does Mr.Lapid explain why Israel couldn't defend itself from terrorist attacks, such as those he emotes about, by building the wall on the border, without 80% of it cutting into what's legally termed "occupied palestinian territories". 3.Dershowitz is as much a left winger as Yair is a serious journalist. Dershowitz, who often presents himself as a proponent of civil rights, had publicly endorsed collective punishment of Palestinians. And, by his own account, had been present at an extra-judicial execution in Israel. An action that is contrary to international law. 3.The kicking out of 800,000 jewish refugees is far from being a well-documented historical fact. True, many jews have left arab countries. However, the historical record doesn't make clear, and Yair provides no figures, as to what number precisely was kicked out. The documentation for the 750,000 or so Palestinians being kept out of their homes is a far more well documented episode in the world's history, most prominently by a historian who admitted he thought Ben-Gurion didn't go far enough in his ethnic cleansing of Palestine. 4.Finally, Mr.Lapid seems to be unaware of the moral truism that one should first look in the mirror before pointing to the crimes of others. True, many Arab and Muslim countries practice inhumane punishment and torture. Furthermore, one hears plenty of human right violations in Darfur and Tibet. None of this however justifies Israel's crimes against the Palestinians.
42. The Simple Facts
Voice of Reason ,   Here & Now   (02.02.10)
OMG is that Yair Lapid writting? I don't believe it. He actually sounded fair and even handed. Could it be he wants to rn for some public office? Na not Yair. Then what could it be? Careful what you read one might start believing the guy. Has he had a change of heart? I doubt it. Maybe he has just had enough. I hope so.
43. #22 weak argument
Tahl ,   Ashdod, Israel   (02.02.10)
The aid America gives Israel is only for defense purposes, in order to ensure the American interests of having a loyal ally in the Middle East. Furthermore as Gee pointed out to you, this money is spent on American products made by Americans - sort of like a subsidy by your government. And as Gee further pointed out - how about the money you throw away on Arabs and other Muslims? How much money did the US pour into Egypt, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and the Palestinian Authority? How about the Taliban? Was any of it worth it? Lastly, if you're so concerned about your tax dollar, then Israel should be the least of your concerns. The aid your Congress gave Israel is pocket change in comparison to the money it poured trying to revive your sick economy, because your government was too stupid to form an effective means of regulation against your reckless capitalism.
44. #43: HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT?
Frank-el ,   Detroit USA   (02.02.10)
Typical arrogant and belligerant response to a valid point. Attack with deception while picking our pockets. Spit in our eye and bleat about how we spend our $ but always demanding more for yourself. Americans don't want our tax $'s being used for your "defense purposes" (i.e. burning Palestinian children with white phosphorous dropped from F-16s). The military industrial complex, which is riddled with Israeli influence and agents, can suffer like the rest of us. Buying US weapons? You broke agreements and then sold US military technology to China, which then sold it to Iran and Iraq. Friends like you we don't need. Rattle your tin at the US synagogues instead if you want more greenbacks. We are sick of the Israeli lobby here and its corrosive and corrupting influence. Remember that 2 wrongs don't make a right...except in your parallel universe...and that anger and entitlement are a bad combination.
45. The Simple Facts
Phil Dillon ,   Emporia, KS, USA   (02.02.10)
I read Professor Dershowitz's book about a year and a half ago. There are many areas of American politics where I disagree with him. I am politically right of center; he is left of center. But in the book he presented a very cogent, fact based case for Israel. As an Evangelical Christian I have great affinity with Israel. In many ways we have a shared history. Israel, from its inception, has given a great gift to the world. As Jesus said in the gospel (John 4) "salvation is of the Jews." The tragedy of Israel's history, however, is something I can only share vicariously. Israel's suffering through the millenia has been very real and very personal. Being a "light to the nations" came with a huge price tag. Like Dershowitz I pray and hope for a two state solution. But, I often feel that I'm praying and hoping against hope. In one of my last professional assignments I was tasked with mentoring a young Palestinian. He was brilliant, charming, dedicated, all the things the corporation could possibly want. On a personal level, he was a devout Muslim and I a Christian. We spent a good deal of of personal time talking about things we truly treasured. Israel, of course, often came up in the conversations. Each time I would talk about finding an avenue for Middle East peace he would tell me that the only acceptable solution for the Palestinian people was the utter destruction of Israel and its people. In his mind there could be no comprimise. He put it this way. "Israel must be driven to the sea and all Jews expunged." Did he speak for all Palestinians? I don't think so, but I do believe he spoke for the majority of Palestinians in positions of authority. That is the crux of the problem. How can a nation be legitimately be expected to negotiate away its very life? Further, in our travels to Europe over the past 15-20 years we've seen anti Senitism grow by leaps and bounds. I never would have thought such a thing possible, but I have seen it and it is very real. I hope and pray that America continues to stand with the people of Israel, but I fear that is also changing. The anti Semitism is moving west from Europe. I think it may only be a matter of time before Israel is truly on its own, with no international support for its legitimacy or its right to exist.
46. Right of Reply to igal from Israel
Gabor Frankl   (02.02.10)
Igal, some of points you took up badly need correction and/or to be complemented. 1. The World court case. OK - its judicial ruling is a blatant miscarriage of justice my fiend. Its ruling is anything but impartial, fair or well thought-out. Its composition was a farce. Let's see who were behind the 14:1. ALLjudges were the delegates of dictatorial authocraticif not outright tyrannical regimes. Only two were reliably professional. The one dissenting American judge, while the other - the British judge, a woman - who while didn't (have the courage to) vote with the American dissenter, nonetheless issues her deep "misgivings" about the verdict. So much about he Int'l Court in Hague as a moral authority. 2. The ethnic cleansing of "Palestine" is a badly written and choreographed myth. Its main propagator, Ilan Pappe is a totally discredited historian who himself admitted that political anti-Israeli point-scoring is more improtant to him than real factually sound research (see his interview with Le Soir, a Belgian paper in the late 90s). 3. Your evocation of "international law" is very arbitrary, one-sided and biased. All sorts of (ideologically and otherwise) biased people evoke this mythical animal without EVER making it clear WHICH stipulation of the law they refer to - mostly because they cannot. Here must be mentioned that "collective punishment" is equally a reliably politicized pseudo-legal term that bears no relation to the actul letter of the law (let alone its spirit). The "collective punishment" is therefore part of "lawfare" against Israel's very legitimacy. 5. The very fact that Benny Morris, the father of the New Historians you refer to just lends credence to him inasmuch as he himself reevaluated his position on the subject of Israel's creation. It irks you that a formerly hard-core anti-Zionist who evaded his consciption has seen the light and now as I said reevaluated his former stance. 6. If ever there was more factually incorrect, in fact ridiculous, statement in your comment then this certainly takes the cake. It neds no further elaboration 'cause eevryone who is following the int'l media perfectly knows that this is not the case. Malicious reports on Israel/"Palestine" by all kinds of journalists who effectively betrayed the fundamental rules of their profession is a dime a dozen. BBC, CNN, Economist, Newsweek, the whole PC mainstream media indeed. 7. Please stay away from insulting Mr. Lapid with your - again - factually flawed and groundless claims if possible. Thank You. (I would like to ask Ynet not to censor my reaction. Thank You Ynet. Yours, Gábor Fränkl)
47. Yair- the typical politician
(02.02.10)
just like most politicians, Yair recently has decided to talk more a little more to the right wing...could this be connnected to his desire to get into politics. Im betting he runs for Kadima, maybe he'll even try to unseat Livni.
48. missing part
Gabor Frankl   (02.02.10)
In my point 6. the missing reference was as follows: "Furthermore, one hears plenty of human right violations in Darfur and Tibet." I wanted to contest and refute this.
49. To El-Farrouk, Detroit, #44
Tahl ,   Ashdod, Israel   (02.03.10)
"Typical arrogant and belligerant response" - Actually my response in #43 was polite, very much to the point, and devoid of any belligerence (except the part about American capitalism, and you know I was right about that). "Attack with deception while picking our pockets. Spit in our eye and bleat about how we spend our $ but always demanding more for yourself. " - Actually, it seems like you and Mr. Chocko are doing all of the spitting and attacking here. "Americans don't want our tax $'s being used for your "defense purposes"; "Rattle your tin at the US synagogues instead if you want more greenbacks" - Sorry to disappoint you, el-Farrouk, but your Muslim community in Detroit does not represent America. Most Christian Americans (and certainly Jewish Americans) do care about Israel's safety. I advise you read post #45 for example. Besides, why complain to me? You're the American citizen, work it out with your fellow people, see if you can convince them? And better yet, see if you can convince the American Defense manufacturers of your fabulous idea. It'll be quite useless on your part, but let me encourage you: I happen to agree with you - we really don't need this help anymore, since this aid comes at a heavy political price. I hope our leadership would be wise enough to realize this, and work to minimize this aid. "burning Palestinian children with white phosphorous dropped from F-16s" - Not even the fact-twisting Goldstone report made an allegation like this. Still, if you're so concerned about innocent lives, where is your condemnation to your own country doing much worse atrocities in Afghanistan and Iraq? Where is your condemnation when ARABS KILL EACH OTHER all the time? Funny how it only concerns you haters when Israel can be blamed. And looks like I left you with no response regarding the gobs of American tax dollars pouring into all the corrupt Muslim countries I mentioned, or to your ailing economy. Well, I can't blame you for striking out on this nasty curveball I served you. "You broke agreements and then sold US military technology to China" - Sorry again El-Farrouk, but this too, never happened. The Falcon AEW deal (which you must refer to) never materialized, due to intense American pressure (this after giving an initial green light to Israel), thus causing Israel's business reputation a great damage in China. Oddly enough (or not?) - Congress authorized many deals of AMERICAN defense firms with China. Chew on this: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/15/inside-the-ring-2059116/ And this: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_27_18/ai_90114133/ "anger and entitlement are a bad combination" - Again, looks like you're the angry side here. If you get so worked up about this article and my response, well, you never should have come to an Israeli news site in the first place! You don't see me entering American news sites and trashing America. Of course you're welcome to stay here, but if you do so you must respect freedom of speech and opinions which differ from yours.
50. Gabor:The meaning of being factually incorrect.
igal ,   israel   (02.03.10)
I mentioned 4 factual points on which Mr.Lapid was diverging from the truth.In addition, I made a moral statement which I thought was a commonplace. You, Gabor, did not dispute ANY of my factual claims, you merely mentioned one of them, taking issue with the legal process, NOT with the fact it took place. You also mentioned the issue of refugees, but you did not address my claim about them. As for my moral argument, I didn't even see you address it. Here is how you made it seem like you were giving a rebuttal, while evading all of my substantive points: 1.The "fence" was named a "wall" by the world court. Mr. Lapid sticks to the propaganda line that it's a fence, without considering the highest judicial body in the world. One could perhaps argue he could dismiss it for the reasons you mentioned.But Mr. Lapid did not discuss the merits of the ruling, he didn't even mention it. Now, I didn't see you dispute the fact the world court has indeed termed it a "wall", not a "fence". 2.The wall was ruled to be illegal by the world court. Mr. Lapid said it was in accord with international law, without giving any consideration to the authoritative ruling. One may argue, as you did, that the court's opinion was biased, and such an argument could be evaluated. However, Mr. Lapid did not even mention the world court ruling. Did I err in my description of the court's ruling? Nowhere did you say that. You are entitled not to like the court, but do no accuse me of inaccuracy because of your personal opinion on the court and its ruling. 3.You did not dispute any of my claims about Mr.Dershowitz's record as a defender of civil rights, so I'll put it aside. 4. I mentioned the fact that there is scarce documentation for the 800,000 jewish refugees , while there is extensive documentation for the 750,000 palestinian refugees. Most prominently, it was provided by a person who has no moral qualms about ethnically cleansing Palestinians(that is, Mr. Morris). Mr. Lapid made a comparison between the two groups of refugees without making the qualitative and quantitative distinction that exists in the historical scholarship between the two. You did not dispute the fact there's far less documentation for the 800,000 jewish refugees, than for the 750,000 Palestinians. 5.Lastly, I mentioned the moral truism that one's own crimes do not go away when one points to crimes of others. If you disagree then I guess you are ok with Hamas saying "we kill Israelis because the IDF kills many Palestinians". I personally disagree with Hamas's argument,and I find it morally repugnant, on the assumption that one does not get moral dispensations after pointing to the crimes of another.But I don't read minds, so I don't know what you think about this moral truism because you didn't address it.
51. "These are facts we are all familiar with"
Sean ,   Montreal, Quebec   (02.03.10)
Thus spoke Mr. Lapid. What facts? That Israel is the only country in the region that permits minorities to vote. FALSE. Alan Dershowitz works for human rights? FALSE. The author as well as the Harvard propagandist want to deny the defacto sovereignty that Israel exercises in the West Bank and Gaza! Apartheid is a policy or practice of dividing and separating people. Perhaps if misters Lapid and Dershowitz were permitted to appropriate the meaning of words with the same zest they appropriate suffering and land then we could all pretend that Israel is not an Apartheid state. By definition we would have to ignore, "THE FENCE". No one is arguing here as to why this came about, just that it is. Such denials of reality bring into question the sincerity and sanity of both the author and the Zionist spokesman at Harvard.
52. Sean #51 you are the one that is wrong
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (02.05.10)
Professor Dershowitz is one of the foremost experts on international law and is famous for his work in human rights. Just as Irwin Cotler MP is known for his human rights works and he too agrees with Professor Dershowitz. Try to dispute that.
53. World Opinion
k berry ,   columbus oh usa   (02.08.10)
Please dont think that mainstream America is critical of Israel. Most of us feel that NO agreements with the Palestinians should begin with anything other than the Arab's achknowledgement that Israel has the right to exist in peace as a sovereign nation. we are totally with you
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