Opinion
In favor of academic boycott
Ariel Rubinstein
Published: 05.02.10, 00:14
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1. It appears Prof. Rubenstein's objections
Shaul R ,   USA/Australia   (02.05.10)
to Ariel university is purely political.
2. Tel Aviv is a settlement too!!!
Mohammed   (02.05.10)
You are just as much a settler as Ariel University. Tel Aviv University was built on the ruins of Arab villages destroyed by Zionists when they occupied Palestine in 1948. No Israeli university should be recognized as legitimate. No scholar would occupy another peoples land.
3. We will "occupy" Judea and Samaria, our heartland, forever!
Chaim ,   Israel   (02.05.10)
Prof. Ariel Rubinstein denounces the recognition of Ariel University as a political act. However, it is obvious that his refusal to recognize Ariel University (and his obscene boycott proposal against it) are political acts. Sooner or later, people like Professor Rubinstein will have to understand that we are "occupying" Judea and Samaria, our heartland, forever. Their obstruction won't deter us from claiming what has been ours for more than 3,500 years and what will be ours forever.
4. How international academia must laugh at us.
Rabbi Cohen ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (02.05.10)
Nearly every facet of our Israel society has been fashioned to further what the international community recognizes as lawless and illegitimate behavior the settlement enterprise. Those of us truly concerned about a viable and peaceful future know full well that land we call disputed does not belong to us and must be returned. A way must be found to share Jerusalem. Our Israel does not even make a pretense of caring about international law. Actions everyday similar to Ariel College where we exaggerate the truth to come to a uniquely Israeli conclusion. That simply because we say Ariel College is now to be a university and that it sits our our land of Israel, then it is. Both are fallacies. Ariel College can never be an esteemed international university, it is not in our Israel. It is outside, those of us who truly love Israel know this in our hearts.
5. your worry should be about your soul. your reasoning offers
ralph   (02.05.10)
upon which to worry about the soul of israel or jewry or our rights to our ancestral lands. these lands belong to israel more so in every which way or argument that you can put forth or any arab can put forth. you sold your soul worry about yourself before you offer me any advise.
6. PROFESSOR ! THIS IS ALL YOU PRODUCE ? IS THAT ALL ?
ATİLLA KARAGÖZOĞLU   (02.05.10)
:)
7. Overlooks the obvious
Ilan ,   Ariel   (02.05.10)
If an university can not award graduate degrees it is not going to have the best record for faculty research. A research program requires government funding and graduate students to do the work. Ariel is ready for that step it has done well in it's undergraduate programs and will rapidly establish itself as a research institution if only given the chance. The people who stand to lose the most are the Israeli students who want a good quality education but are limited because there are not enough universities to match the demand.
8. Rubinstein and Ariel U.
Yonathan (Professor) ,   NYC   (02.05.10)
Perhaps the institution is ready to move to a higher level, perhaps it is not yet. And, perhaps there are political motivations in such decision. Beyond the academic arrogance in what is written; such as his unjustified critique of some papers' titles which he did not read (there is without a doubt a particular dynamic and situated culture that merits the study of a topic within the boundaries of a geographical, ethnic, religious, and ideological community, contextualized within the larger dynamics and structural conditions). However, Rubinstein's real problem is not written in this article. His problem is with status and competition. The monopoly of a few elitist public universities is challenged by the pressures of market forces, the promise of access, and the legitimate expectation among the public to have an equal opportunity to an education that will be grounded in liberal learning, and that would provide a credential with use and exchange value. Rubinstein's position is understandable since he is more interested in perpetuating his own privilege and that of the institutions he represents, but by restricting access it engages in social reproducing and the price is paid by Israeli and Palestinian societal hopes for social mobility. And, what a poor choice of words for the title: "boycott." This is published at a time in which there are constant formal and informal calls for boycott of Israeli professors not only in Israeli institutions, but also in Countries such as Canada and, yes, the US.
9. The Open University is not a research university either!
Michael ,   Toronto   (02.05.10)
10. If only he learned critical thinking
Ron ,   Melbourne, Australia   (02.05.10)
If Ariel is deserving of a University status or should be an objective criteria. The test should be based on similar levels at other universities when they received their status. The writer talks of 'Purely Political move' - funny given the given the tone, narratives and examples provide which are nothing both political. FOr example - 1."Forward outpost" - Political -what has that to do with its quality of teacher or not. 2. "Also studied depression among Palestinians" - Political - the issue is quality of research not requirement for equal time in scientific research - otherwise you degrade to very silly issues such as why would (e.g.) Oxford university give equal research time to flowers and bees (after all they both part of the same system)... 3. Gaza strip researcher - words such "Ador","desperation to leave" Connection with security establishment - Political & malice - A. did he check with the Palestinian that they feel they "Adorn" and in receipt of "bribe" for their desperate attempt to leave Gaza? - My guess if this was done by Hebrew University the tone would have been the 'fearless uni stands for Gaza researches' - I think Orwell would be grinning - doublespeak !!. . A point not researched, not validated, and shows bias and framing issues. 4. Trying to denigrate - "Was the Ark.." - As an Atheist I think all study of theology is the same of study of Astrology , however, I am also well aware (and I suspect that the writer is also well aware) that many of the most distinguished universities of the world have a Theology studies as one of their faculties. Highlighting this aspect is not demonstrating anything of relevance re status a university (or does he think Oxford is also not a real university?) - He wrote the topic not the level of discussion, it significance, philosophical or other issues raised, etc - simply judged on the title of the lecture !! - talks about critical thinking & analysis - OR is it more likely a case of lack of critical thinking and rather clear political bias. There is a saying in english -the pot calling the kettle black - the writer is clearly stating his , biased, pre-framed, uncritical political views. He did not provide any information of value for a real discourse - only polemic views. When you are clearly political but blame that of the other the view can hardly warrant anything but an amused smile from any critical, thinking observer. The scary part is that these tactics have so often been used the the most vile and extreme regimes and systems one which are responsible for countless misery and death - which is why Orwell wrote 1984. It is good to see that Ynet has journalist still enlisting in the cause of the "Ministry of Truth" without the need to go through room 101 first. My suggestion to the writer is that his readers (and him) would greatly benefit from articles written to allow proper discourse (based on any world philosophical view he holds) - that they be critical, informative and not based on smear techniques, one line judgments and are showing clear areas of failing by the university vs. other, accepted, universities around the world - establishing proper benchmark. He ridicules their scientific papers - good on him - I ridicule his lack of critical analysis, lack of objectiveness, his lack of ability to see what his readers can see (i.e. un critical thinking and poor ability to demonstrate his assessment of the situation)... sorry it goes both ways.
11. Professor Rubinstein
Ricardo Macher ,   KarneiShomron Israel   (02.05.10)
Reading this political declaration that he does using Ynet readers patience, this man is blatantly showing his main problem. It is not about if we have the right to be kin Judea and Samaria, it's about if we have the right to have a country and what that is based in. If according to this anti Zionist professor we have no right to the land of our ancestors, please somebody explain to me how we do have the right to live in Ramat Gan!, or Ashdod, this professor should know that the only write we Jews have to this blessed land comes from our history and our history is nothing else that all our religious books that he disregard! Really I do believe that somebody should have a very good look at what kind of people are teaching our children and what they teach!!!.
12. All those who love Israel must agree
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (02.05.10)
with this gentleman who identifies himself as "Rabbi Cohen". Ergo: If you think that Ariel College deserves to be a university, you do not love Israel. And if you think that the disputed territories belong to Israel, and if your soul doesn't know any better (according to this self-professed rabbi), then you don't love Eretz Yisrael. This "rabbi" is the same man who, on another post, says that posters do not think well, that posters do not use logic, that posters are uneducated. He says (and I paraphrase) that if the the foregoing is an indication of the Israeli mentality today, then Israel is lost. Allow me to translate: There is no room to dispute this socalled rabbi. The only rational conclusions one can come to are his. If facts are disputed, then only his facts bear truth and there is no reason for him (or anyone) to dig any deeper because he is not, and cannot be, wrong. Have I got this right, "rabbi"? Have I assured the world of Talkbacks that you are infallible? Have I not therefore proven that if we disagree with you, "rabbi", then we are going down a bad bad road? Kindly advise.
13. TAU profs
Sharona ,   Juersalem Israel   (02.05.10)
What a piece of garbage this is. The land of Israel for the people of Israel. It is the Palis occupying Jewish land not the opposite. Check out Mark Twain's "innocents Abroad" to find out where all these Arab villages were. NOT! Israel was a complete wasteland till the Jews returned. There are 2 states, Israel and Jordan.
14. Specious and hostile argument
Naftush ,   Israel   (02.05.10)
So Prof. Rubinstein recommends a boycott on the grounds of tendentious, second-rate research? If Ariel College's research is really so, no boycott is necessary; the ruthlessly competitive academic community will trash the place on its own.
15. I am at odds with myself over this
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (02.05.10)
article as it is written by a very distinguished professor who is not associated with the usual Israeli bashing socalled liberals who make up the power elite at so many post-secondary academic institutions in Israel. But there are several items which Professor Rubenstein wrote about which certainly perplex me. The first was in his retelling of the story of his meeting with his host (and friend, so he says). Why did Professor Rubenstein need to describe his host's smoking a cigarette in an unsafe place? If the professor thought it was unsafe, why didn't he say something to his host? And yes, smoking in the area described may well have been unsafe. This could have been an idiosyncracy of his host's part and not a significant mark of character yet Professor Rubenstein made a very clear effort to tell us all about it, thereby diminishing his host's stature. Professor Rubenstein did not do this by mistake although he may not have been utterly aware of the (negative) effect his description of the incident would have on the readers' view of the host and, secondarily, about Ariel University. More to the point, Professor Rubenstein appears to regard the studies of Judea and Samaria as some sort insignificant research. Nonetheless, Ariel University is situated in the ancient Jewish homelands and it makes sense that such an academic institution would concentrate its social science departments on what's available in the locale, i.e., ancient history, the ethnic relations between Jews and Arabs and a description and analysis of the socio-political context. Now game theory, Professor Rubenstein's area of expertise, is broad in scope and rather rarified. It is not everybody's cup of tea but certainly should not be dismissed. The studies of Judea and Samaria, however, are context driven and should also not be denigrated by academics who take other approaches. Having said that, for Professor Rubenstein's information (if he were to read this posting) and for all other Readers, I would refer you to a book entitled "neighbours" by the eminent historian, Jan Gross. In it, Professor Gross researches and describes, in minutae, how Jews were the objects of cruelty of their neighbours, how they died painful deaths and how their once kind neighbours enjoyed witnessing and participating in Jewish torture. Out of this single event which took place over several days in the village of Jedwabne, Jan Gross inferred something significant about Polish character and functioning during the war years and, more importantly, he inferred something about the inherent (universal) possibility of evil in friends and neighbours. So, Professor Rubenstein, one can start from the particular and expand to the universal. This is called "inductive reasoning". Therefore, without knowing anything about the breadth and depth of the studies on Samaria and Judea which you refer to and which have yet to be identified, I think you have gone far beyond your limits in making such a damaging conclusion about Ariel College and its new university status.
16. Ron...Melbourne
Michael ,   Haifa   (02.05.10)
I receive a journal of "occasional papers" published by Ariel College, presumably because I have, in the past, refereed papers for that journal. Cetainly not, because I subscribe to it. The papers that I referred negatively were invariably published. The papers that regularly appear are, in my opinion, mostly of the standard of a postgraduate seminar course. If these standards are reflected in other disciplines, beyond my own, then Rubinstein's conclusions of politicization achieve greater import. I suggest that you contact the college, request some of their publications, read them and come to your own conclusions, before entering the argument. You may not accept my professional evaluations, but at least I have read, in order to make my evaluations. You, on the other hand, like the Shakespearan adage, "are full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"
17. #4 Abu Cohen
Cynthia ,   USA   (02.05.10)
International academia does not laugh at Israel. In fact, international academia to include Scholars for Peace in the ME, consistently condemn academic boycotts against Israel because they are misguided and discriminatory. This organization currently has five petitions posted opposing an academic boycott of Israel with thousands of international signatures. You can view them at http://spme.net/spme_petitions.html. Professor Rubenstein's assessment of Ariel College is purely political and not based on academic standards. And you clearly share his views. This really has nothing to do with Ariel College providing students in this demographic area with academic training. Students living in this area have a right to an education and Ariel College is there to provide it.
18. Ariel University is alive and kicking !
Trumpeldor ,   eurabyeh   (02.05.10)
Its academical status is awesome Both faculty and pupils are top notch Rubinstein makes me ashamed of being a Jew We have all rights on Judea and Samaria and Ariel is a living proof of that claim Too bad for you,"professor" !
19. #16-Michael Haifa
Ron ,   Melborne, Australia   (02.05.10)
Hi Michael, Thanks for the feedback. I beg to differ on the issue. I agree that reading scientific papers from Ariel would allow me judge clearly the quality of the work. This, however, does not negate the lack of quality in the article written by the Professor - and which I was critiquing. He may or may not be right about them not producing quality work - that is beside the point - the issue his approach is flawed. He spent time o the cigarette, etc -so he had sufficient space to put forward a well written article which both educates the reader (providing sufficient raw data/examples) and a properly formulated thesis. Instead he concentrated on what is irrelevant, derogatory, etc. - that is what I have given him a failing mark for. I was not judging if the conclusion is right as the thought process was flawed. I am sure he is more then capable person and if a student of his was to provide a similarly argued issue on a different area (which he has no obvious bias) that he would give a failing mark to the student. If Ynet wants a quality paper - then quality means providing the facts as they are and an analysis with clear demonstrated logic - otherwise simply supply the readers the headings and they can all start doing their own research - e.g. as per your suggestion for me to read the journals - I do not think that is a feasible proposition - one would have to read volumes and volumes of data and use the paper headlines only as a trigger for investigation. I think Ynet readers deserve more. I do not think it is becoming of a Professor to provide such a slant - education piece it is not - political piece it is
20. Academic boycot
Sylvain Ajdler ,   Antwerp Belgium   (02.05.10)
Dear Sir What a blow in the face of so many students who do a great job of strenghtening the country economy. By the way why did you forget to mention the amount of arab students in Ariel?
21. #11 ricardo
shu ,   UK   (02.05.10)
you so so right well said.
22. #2 Turning historical facts upside down
Menachem ,   Israel   (02.05.10)
The kingdom of Israel was established 2000 years before the Moslem Arabs invaded and occupied the land. "Palestine" is the name the Roman occupiers gave Judea in order to try erasing Jewish history. No Arab state "Palestine" has ever existed. You Arabs are the trespassers and foreigners in this ancestral JEWISH homeland.
23. To # 7 Ilan
Prof. R. M. Sloman ,   Sydney Australia   (02.05.10)
Ilan you are absolutely correct. Unfortunately the so called professor is either too old and doddery to understand this, or perhaps he is simply blinded by bias.
24. Ariel U probably won't give degrees to jailed terrorists
m   (02.05.10)
Terrorists sitting in Israeli jails get degrees from Hebrew University paid by the Israeli tax payer. Have heard of that? I'm sure not because the media covers it. I hope Ariel U won't join them in enrolment of terrorists paid by the victims money.
25. A researcher who only confirms his bias is no scientist
Ilan ,   Ariel   (02.05.10)
What is galling is the unscrupulous of putting the academic qualifications up as an issue when he is completely biased against Ariel based on it's locations and his prejudice to against it. One doesn't have to search far back in history to see what terrible ends the application of racial bias leads science to. Hopefully in his professional career he can rise above petty hatreds and do reasonable work.
26. College or University?
Sidney ,   USA   (02.05.10)
As one who spent many years in academia in the U.S., I would really like to know the difference between a college and university. I know the old definition that a university is a collection of colleges. However, if you look at what is really going on, colleges become universities just because the word sounds better. I taught in a college that had many "schools" and gave masters degrees for a long time while still calling itself a college. One day it became a university and nothing changed. Based on what I read, in England every cow college is now a university, e.g. East London. This whole dispute is a tempest in a teapot.,
27. It's about money
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (02.05.10)
Rubinstein is afraid of competition. He knows that he will have to compete with young and energetic researchers of Ariel who have a fresh outlook on research for limited funds. He probably realizes he will lose, so he wrote this pathetic article.
28. Ron #10- Thanks for showing us the light
Eran ,   Singapore   (02.05.10)
Rubinstein. You are ridiculous. You seem to be joking and biased - like some left wing partizans that made fun of everybody to get Obama elected. We know the style. If you want to make a piont, leave the politics aside.
29. ... the game
R. Avery Ellisman ,   Encinitas, CA   (02.05.10)
Prof. Rubenstein's a bright guy, but it seems disingenuous to mention someone’s pipe smoking as part of an effort to discredit an academic institution's readiness for advance to university status. In short, me thinks the Professor "protests too much", and while couched in terms of a greater good, it is interesting that he - a well-respected specialist in Game Theory and an Israel Prize winner, is so vocally opposed to this new university, whereas Prof. Emeritus Robert J. Aumann - an advocate of the institutions advance - is an expert in the same field and a Nobel Laureate. It is downright fascinating that these two gifted game theorists are so clearly on opposite sides of the table, and while I wonder whose “move” it is now, Prof. Rubenstein seems the one who, out of frustration at the way the pieces lay, is trying to upset the board. Check!
30. The issue is funding Sidney
Ilan ,   Ariel   (02.05.10)
In Israel, Universities get a budget for research and the tuition is subsidized at a higher level than colleges. In addition there are some graduate degrees that colleges can not offer. So without the go ahead and funding to go on to the next stage Ariel can not really establish a solid research program. Which is precisely why Rubenstein's criticism is so facile. If he really were interested in furthering academics in Israel he would be more enthusiastic in providing more opportunities for graduate research.
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