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Haredim return snatched body to police
Efrat Weiss
Published: 03.02.10, 23:27
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23 Talkbacks for this article
1. more antics from the charideem thugs
Avi ,   Israel   (02.03.10)
and began attacking poice, well why not they are above the law and get away with it, These people are simply discusting, obvioulsy to much time on their hands.
2. Efrat weiss again!
Steve ,   NYC   (02.03.10)
Against haradim
3. more like destroying evidence
dave ,   uk   (02.03.10)
4. paramedic/policeman gentiles can't touch Jewish dead body?
observer   (02.03.10)
5. #4This is Israel;police/paramedics are Jewish. The issue was
(02.04.10)
the autopsy which is against Jewish law (to dismantle the dead is considered a desecration, disrespectful). Read again and you'll see that was the issue -- nothing at all to do with "gentiles". Relax.
6. Zaka are Haredim too & THEY were outraged by this behavior
(02.04.10)
So don't go Haredi-bashing (Avi, et al). Even other Haredim are shocked/disgusted at police bashing and body-snatching.
7. arrests
Dan ,   Rimonim   (02.04.10)
Outside of a Chardi neighborhood, such actions would have resulted in a multitude of arrests. Just goes to show how p[oorly trained and equiped our police force is.
8. Just send them to Iran
Shimon ,   Cincinnati, USA   (02.04.10)
Enough of these clowns. Just throw them the hell out!
9. Wright n wrong
Li ,   London   (02.04.10)
U have to admit that although it's very sad for a young person to die I do hope that her relatives find peace it's also quite funny the fact that they make it in to a circus gotta love there passion may she rest in peace
10. police dont care nor respect
moshe ,   jersey   (02.04.10)
the issues for religious Jews!! I don't necessarily agree to the approach but I understand the anger
11. it's their world!
Lior ,   Netanya   (02.04.10)
throwing dirty welfare diapers and now snatching dead bodies! The Haredim rule the world!
12. As a chareidi guy I think that this story is...
shadoil ,   Jerusalem   (02.04.10)
GROSS!
13. Mob rule
religious woman ,   Israel   (02.04.10)
Of course the dignity of the dead woman comes second to the wishes of this lunatic fringe in Mea Shearim. Basically this incident shows that our police have not developed a strategy to deal with the extremist mob rule which is so damaging to Haredi as well as general society.
14. These haredim an embarrassment to other orthodox jews
robins ,   jerusalem   (02.04.10)
15. Unacceptable behavior, and against Halacha.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (02.04.10)
This isn't the first time that an extremist group decides to "preemptively" save a body from autopsy when none is about to occur. The police aren't saints in these matters (consistently demanding autopsies even when they're not required doesn't help their reputation among the religious Jewish public), but ZAKA are quite capable of protecting bodies from uneccessary dismembering, and peacefully. Assaults and self-righteous zeal based on rumor is Chilul Hashem - be it through the violence against the living, or the lack of respect for the dead.
16. The very essence of religious perversion
Mea   (02.04.10)
One definition of, or measurement of group insanity is perserve behavior. Collectively rioting to snatch a body could certainly met the criteria. These are the same people who want to judge conversions, observance levels, marriages, etc in other people?? They need to put a big sign at the entrance of Mea Sheream "Nut House"
17. Promises can be broken
Talula ,   Israel   (02.04.10)
The woman's family need to know why and what she died of to enable them continue on with their lives. Such violence can only suggest they don't want someone in Abu Kabir to find out the cause of death. Round them all up, charge them for assault, as they would do a secular, and throw them in prison - preferably an all woman prison.
18. Well, I guess they don't care to find out why the woman died
dorothy friend ,   tel aviv   (02.04.10)
...it can sure help in covering up a murder not to have an autopsy. But that can work against people who refuse to allow autopsies, too. The man who killed Meir Kahane was not convicted of murder -- because the family wouldn't allow an autopsy, thus no forensic proof that the shot killed him.
19. Could you explain me
Jane ,   Czech Republic   (02.04.10)
one thing? Is Israel THEOCRACY? Because if it isnĀ“t, how is possible, that in CIVIL or CRIMINAL affairs you invoke RELIGIOUS law? If you are theocracy, how you could talk about democracy? In the Czech Republic are ALL religious laws STRICTLY separated from other law system! And in ALL democratic countries it is the same!!!
20. No. 18 Dorothy Friend
NYC Girl   (02.04.10)
Excellent point...and there's something else. It turns out that the NYPD, and various intelligence agencies, now believe the assassination of Meir Kahane by El-Said Nosair may actually have been the opening salvo for a plan of terror attacks against the U.S. which culminated with the outrage on 9/11.
21. history repeating itself
observer   (02.04.10)
In a country where none of the major ethnic groups permits autopsies, there has always been a demand in the hospitals for unclaimed bodies for teaching purposes, emergency stores of organs etc. In an article in Haaretz (12/12/08 by D Weiler-Polak) it was revealed how the first Israeli organ transplant was performed 40 years ago, using an organ taken without consent - legally, because no consent was required by law. Fifty/sixty years ago it was much worse and there were groups on full-time alert for just such incidents. And you know what? People are still concerned and will protect innocent victims to the best of their ability.
22. #19 Israel is not a theocracy.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (02.04.10)
Israel does, on the other hand, have a few fairly basic laws that outwardly define it as a Jewish state. In this case, though, none of them were even considered. This is, first and foremost, a case of religious freedom. Judaism forbids cutting up a dead body unless it is strictly a life and death matter, such as with organ transplants or helping to capture a murderer. So, religious Jews aren't too keen on autopsies. Combine this with a very bad reputation from a few decades past about how autopsies and organ transplants were handled (no regulation, no permission from next of kin required), and you end up having vigilante groups. The Abu Kabir Pathological Institute has a very dark reputation to this day, one of dismembered bodies, medical research without any approval, pieces of bodies taken for collections... morbid stuff. Now, nowadays it isn't as bad as it used to be - the law stipulates that a a police autopsy requires a court warrant, and the police don't automatically demand one. There are alternatives to the quick and brutal slice-n'-dice autopsy that still provide satisfactory results, but it still remains the fastest and cheapest method. And in this case, with the on-site rescue team being a religious volunteer group, they would've made sure the police weren't overstepping their bounds for the sake of easy results... and yet the vigilantes are still here. And this time, they just made themselves look stupid and criminal.
23. #18 An excellent point indeed.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (02.04.10)
And in the case of murder, Judaism is fairly unanimous - do the autopsy, as that means saving lives in the long run. I think the family relied less on actual Halacha and more on emotion and/or their extremist mindset. Kahane and his followers weren't exactly stable in their interpretation of Judaism. The case illustrated in this article doesn't really mention any suspicion of murder or the like, though, which I think would have been mentioned by any self-respecting journalist. Autopsies should certainly be avoided whenever they're not really needed in the first place.
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