Jewish Scene
Braces not allowed in ritual bath
Ari Galahar
Published: 15.02.10, 08:36
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59 Talkbacks for this article
31. Wait! A bigger issue - meat and milk in mikvahs...
Josh   (02.15.10)
...we are going to have to crank the temperature up ladies!!!!! Yes? No? Maybe a basari othodontist and a halavi orthodontist and of course lots of inspections and kosher certificates to charge for. But what about the gentlemen? No braces for the whole lot of them. Men need to be able to cleans themselves at a moments notice too and they can;t have barriers either. Crooked crooked crooked.
32. This article should be retracted
dfa   (02.15.10)
The information in this article not correct. I don't know if it's a result of a misunderstanding or a premature April first joke, but the information is either entirely false or misleading. Check your facts. Some feel that Ynet has an anti-hareidi agenda. This article seems to bolster that opinion.
33. You guys find a way to solve the problems of the
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (02.15.10)
agunot and halitzot yet?
34. I guess
Sagi   (02.15.10)
this is the most important Halachic ruling since the time of Rambam. People just do not understand the far reaching ramifications of such a ruling by such an important and respected Rabbi. I dare to conjecture that it will be regarded with such importance that at some time in the future it will be added into the Shulchan Aruch and in a couple of thousand years from now Yeshiva students will debate the pros and cons of this ruling with ardent emotion. Oh, by the way, I have a titanium implant in my cervical vertebrae, how do I qualify, am I still in the category of being created in the image of the "Creator".
35. 2 links for learning about chatzitzot; NOT 4 Halacha-bashers
Robert ,   Israel   (02.15.10)
An erudite article presenting lenient and stringent opinions with sources: http://www.jofa.org/pdf/Batch%201/0091.pdf A searchable website written by female halachic experts: www.yoatzot.org Search for "brace" to see where one can be lenient. The whole site is fascinating. As it turns out, there's nothing new in Rav Elyashiv's psak - unless it was misreported, which is quite possible given the generally superficial presentation of facts. Ynet was just looking for an angle. In practice, little will change as nearly all rabbanim will continue to be lenient or strict as per their previous understanding of chatzitza vis a vis teeth.
36. What is Brackman's point in reporting this?
Chaim ,   Netanya   (02.16.10)
Is this something the readers of Ynet need to know? How many readers of Ynet keep Family Purity? Is this reported to make Rav Eliyasiv look foolish and for Chareidim to be lauged at by the seculars? If Brackman wants to poke fun at Halacha why does he not compile a list of Rav Zalman Shimon Dvorkin's rulings such as not using plastic utensils and tablecloths or hot water to wash dishes on Pesach? Chabad has plenty of offbeat chumros
37. Stupid Article
Sarah ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (02.16.10)
1) This article was clearly written to make R' Elyashiv look bad-how DARE the writer bash a man so much greater in Jewish knowledge than he. 2) Any girl who wants/needs braces gets them BEFORE she gets married...I've never seen a married/older woman with braces. If you didn't get em as a kid, no point in getting em once you're married, bc you obviously don't need them. 3) Let's see some SOURCES to any of this material.
38. 37.2
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (02.16.10)
Braces aren't only for cosmetic purposes. They are also used to treat, and were originated to treat, teeth problems that effected chewing, etc. ("overbite" for example) So they aren't only used to up the value of the merchandise in the marriage market.
39. man made rules!!!!!!!!
jeremy greene ,   jerusalem   (02.16.10)
why cant the haredim just accept the rules that we already have? if it is not kosherizing the internet, it is disallowing us from having nice teeth. this is honestly a disgrace. for instance....what if someone has a metal plate in his head? is he allowed to enter the mikvah?
40. #37 Sarah- wrong
Lisa   (02.16.10)
the Rabbi does not need Ynet to look stupid- he is doing it himself-. Nowpeople have to spend an extra xxx money for removable braces- does the Rabbi have connections? as for braces: you get braces to find a man? That is what you are saying. I have seen many women who did get braces in adult life- to save their teeth because the parents did not have money when the girls was little. Women have braces because they have a bad bite- not because they are looking for a husband- are you married? How are your teeth, LOL? if this had anything to do with scriptures- why is this sect the only one requiring this? Does this Rabbi know something the others don't ? I think believers should stop taking everything for face value that is a) written in the papers, and b) that is said by the religious 'leaders'....
41. superstitious nonsense
Nadav ,   israel   (02.16.10)
i can't believe these so called rabbis are are allowed to practice in this country in the 21 century!! These people are trapped a vicious cult and cannot leave. The government should remove these people from practicing their bastardized Judaism and separate religion from state to pull the rug from under them- they don't work, they live off our taxes- so they must be stopped!
42. YNet, retract this article!
Michael ,   Toronto   (02.16.10)
Take a look at talkbacks 19 and 32. I understand the mistake of publish this. I suppose that you assumed that Ari Galahar did his research. However, he clearly failed to report that this ruling meant that removable braces had to be removed, according to Rav Elyashiv. One suspects that this was done in order to humiliate a large segment of Israeli society, despite being based on the misrepresentation of reality. Either change or retract this article!
43. #40, et al (bashers) READ #19! Anything REMOVABLE
L ,   Elad, Israel   (02.16.10)
needs to be REMOVED prior to immersion in the mikva. Permanent braces aren't a problem. Removable braces, glasses, clothing, jewelry -- anything REMOVABLE must be removed. Got it? The article just left out the "removeable" part before the word "braces" -- so as to make the hareidi world appear unreasonable and laughable. Period. (no pun intended).
44. #19 Good advice.... ...for the Rabbi.
Josh   (02.16.10)
if "only the subjects would be researched a bit better, the writer would realise how stupid he sounds. " Same goes for those people who back false additions to Torah. Devarim 4:2. What is this Mikvah law if the book it comes from is written both by a group of persons who are not prophets and secondly based on a book by an unknown author and thirdly NOT mentioned in a book written by Moses which he calles "the entire sefer Torah"- Devarim? Devarim 13 and Devearim 18:21 make it clear we are NOT allowed to follow men claiming to speak for G-d and adding instructions on our people when they have NO prophet capabilities and no G-d given athourity. Unthrone false teachers. Devarim 4:2
45. Goal of article - to amuse Jewish cynics
Rachel ,   Brooklyn   (02.16.10)
This story is published to amuse Jewish cynics. When will Jews learn not to ridicule themselves in public?
46. What about other bodily implants?
Yonatan Frimer ,   Tzfat, Israel   (02.16.10)
Braces are a form of bodily implant for medical purposes... so what about someone who breaks a bone and has a pin inside their bone, which is sometimes removed a few years later? What about breast implants, do these also disqualify her?
47. this is why you can't worship a rabbi, only god...
Potash Katiftof ,   Tel Aviv Israel   (02.16.10)
The haredim (bless their souls) are basically worshipping their rabbi's words instead of that of god. The ten commandments are explicit in saying do not make yourself other gods. I am just cuirous what their rabbi has to say about that/
48. With all due respect
Meir ,   Beit Shemesh   (02.16.10)
Rav Eliyashiv is not as the Litvish refer to him The Fuhad (Posek HaDor) decisor of the generation. Sefardim abide by teh rulings of Rav Ovadiah, Chassidim abide by the rulings of Rav Wosner etc. I would not be surprised if Rav Eliyashiv retracts this ruling as he has many times in the past when all the facts are presented to him. He has a track record of backtracking on his rulings, so till he does so, the Litvish will have to suffer with a choice of wives with crooked teeth or celibacy
49. #45 Better Jews admit than look like OJ Simpson Deniers
Josh   (02.16.10)
Hope you get the point that its is better that we be honset and a light to the world than protective and looking like we back the incorrect or worse evil concepts that victimize our fellows or people of the world. Because if one covers up the fools that commit crimes of unrighteous persecution they become acomplices and for that the world and G-d will care and people fall into jeoardy of being cursed and hated as a group for the sins of the few. We should never hide our faults because that is insecure and a miscarriage of justice, rather we should seek them out and correct them and admit when and if we were wrong. Hebrews didn't cover up the golden calf worshippers, now did they? There is a lesson in there. It is anti Torah to treat the sinner with the same respect and protection as a good person. The land promised by Torah is not for everybody but only for the non-sinners of the true words of G-d, the evil is supposed to be sent/removed from among us. That can't happen if we cover and protect a sinner. One world one justice and always righteous. Torah demands we go in righteous ways ALWAYS! Everbody hates liars and frauds in all countries. If we as individuals not oppressed by a cult thinking feel this sort of sin of adding to Torah (Dev 4:2) and ignoring laws to only follow prophets that do not violate Torah, should be publically addressed as Torah is supposed to be a very public thing, then we are not wrong for doing a mitzvah. "You shall speak of it on your way"
50. once again stupitity
marko ,   tel aviv   (02.16.10)
once again a bit of religious stupitity is anounced
51. #49 Harmful if non-Jewish media reads this
Rachel ,   Brooklyn   (02.17.10)
Non-Jews love this stuff. We are feeding their lust for anti-Jewish tidbits. A few yrs ago KLM airlines published a pamphlet for their staff about how to handle Jewish orthodox female passengers. It detailed laws about ritual baths and menstrual cycles. Articles like this clued them in.
52. #2 - dont know many brides with braces a week before their
rebecca ,   Modiin   (02.17.10)
wedding. If you have to just be dafka try be intelligently dafka.
53. #51 So what? So we should lower ourselves...
Josh   (02.17.10)
So what? So we should lower ourselves to thought policing and hide the truth that may embarass us. Shal we cut off the world like some cult fearing outside criticism regardless of wether it is righteous or not? ...and if we start hiding and lying, will things get better or worse. The reason the pamphlet made such a big splash is because the "secret" got out and people acted like it was a big deal the secret got out. If everybody knew, they would have said, "Oh yeah, I already knew that".If someone hears that the amish ride in buggies, no one makes a big deal about it. My point is stop freaking out about hiding the truth. If it is really Torah, what are we ashamed of? Is it not a mitzvah to speak of these things while we walk on our way. Are we not supposed to show the world and be a light to all nations? I of course, think false additions and cult secrecy is a bad thing for us. The common cult thing to do to oppress its members is to build an unrighetous dislike for outsiders and an irrational fear outsiders will harm them if "secrets" get out. It works wonders as you can see.
54. #51 - why is it harmful?
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (02.18.10)
It is not slander. And I thought the orthodox Jews are proud of their "purity" rules and often site them to show their "superiority." I remember one rabbi on the radio even saying the reason those poor soldiers died in the helicopter crashes was their moms didn't go to the mikva. You can't have it both ways. If you are proud of the way you live you should want the world to know.
55. spend your time well, please!
AS ,   Tel-Aviv   (02.18.10)
All of these rules are just too much and absurd!! People are waisting their time thinking about such stupidities and unuseful details...!! There is SO much to work on on this planet, in order to make it a better place: save the birds, forests, protect human rights, respect refugees, education for all, ETC. I get so angry when I see religious people around us waisting their time and no being useful in any way... Nietsche said that religion isn't bad, because it keeps the useless people busy... Well, I say that it is indeed bad (religion) because it doesn't help the world much, and others have to work twice as hard to compensate for those who are doing nothing.
56. #43 basher?
Lisa   (02.18.10)
being a religious person does not mean accepting every fart from a religious leader without questions- and you know why this does not make sense? Braces are inside the mouth- so- unless a woman opens herr mouth in the water and gargles- the water does not touch the braces- this would be like a metal plate inside your head or screws in a bone- it means INSIDE your body. I think the Rabbi has been doing too much praying to come up with an idea like this. Instead of helping people to adjust to the new millenia- the Ravs are trying their best to take people back to the Dark Ages.
57. what about other "implants"
jeff ,   israel   (03.23.10)
the rav (or people close to him) must mean retainers.
58. Invisalign braces is the answer to this issue
Michael ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (10.25.11)
The second time around having braces, I used "the invisalign method", which involves about 15 or so plastic bite-plates that snaps in and out whenever you want. They progessively, over the course of about 6 months or so, will slowly move and straighten out your teeth. Aside being able to whatever you want (unlike traditional braces), this would solve this issue. To all those dentists out there selling invisalign, your welcome!!! No commission necessary!
59. Braces, of course you can wear them!
bamispain ,   Raanana Israel   (10.26.11)
Of course, you can wear braces when you go to the mikveh. If you don't your trousers might fall down.
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