Jewish Scene
Women of the Wall: Worshippers called us Nazis
Kobi Nahshoni
Published: 15.02.10, 15:39
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19 Talkbacks for this article
1. Nazi no, but destroyers of Judaism yes.
m   (02.15.10)
Trying to replace Judaism with New Age paganism. We outlived the conversion attacks we will outlive you.
2. not only goyim...
tom ,   toronto, canada   (02.15.10)
i have always been amazed at the violent fights that break out between christian sects at the church of the holy sepulchre in jerusalem - not the peace that one would expect at a holy site. now i see that it is not only the goyim...
3. I will never call myself religious
Chaya ,   Bat Yam   (02.15.10)
I do not want to be associated with those people!!
4. Isn't Only Hareidim Who Are Appalled
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (02.15.10)
that these provocateurs shamelessly descecrate a holy site in an attempt to forward their ideology. Can anyone imagine Catholic women causing such disturbances inside St. Peter's cathedral or Moslem ladies flaunting themselves demonstratively inside a mosque? And yet these misguided women feel no compulsion in upsetting truly observant Jewish worshippers at this holy place. Shame on them and their supporters. They will not be judged by Heaven favorably. We Jews are cursed with these so-called Conservative and Reform "rabbis" who pass no opportunity to incite against the truly G-d-fearing Jews, and stir up discontent and hatred. It was you who opened the door to assimilation and intermarriage - and you complain?
5. The western wall provokes G-d or appeases?
Josh   (02.15.10)
If I read the rabbinically defined readings called prophets as they are written, the temple was lost because the 70 elders inside were doing magic and the leaders were violating Torah. They were warned to stop doing things like putting containers under arms and cloth coverings on the heads of upright Jews which according to the text "stole their souls". (I know sounds like Harry Potter stashing souls in compartments and objects) Since we lost the temple it would appear that no one headed the prophets warnings and so G-d chastised us severely, promoted a vile nation over us as the curses perscribe and drove us out of the land. Since this would occur to the sinning pagan Jewish leaders, they likely took the forbidden ceremonies and magic with them into disporah. So my question is, does whaling at the wall with added books, traditions and the same sort of boxes described in Yehezkeil 13 really make G-d happy? Are Kabbalah cantaions that orginiate from a prayer methodology created in Babylon, home of the Magi preists, realy help. Especially done on an Arab Babylonian Moon Calendar? If I chastise a son by breaking his clubhouse and he stood by the damage and called it holy as he continued to do what caused the fall of the house, what would I think? It looks and feels like a provocation by my child - but is it viewed this way by G-d? Moses authored Torah can answer this! Rabbis? Are you really in this to keep our souls or do I have it backwards?
6. Paganism
Don ,   Albany NY USA   (02.15.10)
You are saying tallit, tefillin, and reading Torah at the new moon are New Age paganism? Well, I guess tying leather amulets to your body and treating a leather scroll reverently do seem kind of pagan, especially when women do it according to a monthly cycle.
7. Women of the Wall
Josie Kinchin ,   London, UK   (02.15.10)
Rabbi Rabinowitz claims that the Wall must remain a place that "unifies" rather than "separates" the people of Israel. What can be more unifying than allowing women and/or mixed prayer at the holiest site? I am very proud to pray every week in my English synagogue wearing a Tallit and a kippah. I've worn a kippah when praying for about 15 years and tallit for the past 5 years. I know the Torah says there is no obligation for a woman to do so, it doesn't actually say she can't. To be calling the women who pray at the Kotel 'Nazis' or 'Christians' is a bigoted, uneducated slur on Jewish women. I am thrilled that I can choose to be as much a part of Judaism as any man. If I were not permitted to pray as I wish, I could be completely turned off by my religion and this 'turn-off'' leads to 'Jewish negativism' and is what what happens to hundreds and hundreds of young people every year in Israel and in the Diaspora.
8. futile feminist rebellion
Dovid ,   Toronto, Canada   (02.15.10)
3300 years of Torah will not fall to a pathetic group of rebels trying to overturn it. One way or another Torah will prevail.
9. Reform and Haredi...
Sefardi   (02.15.10)
...are the two ugly faces of ashkenazi Jewry. Be happy, be Sfaradi !
10. Can this please be the last time...
Tammy ,   Israel   (02.15.10)
Ynet, don't you have any real newsworthy stories to publish? Enough about these sad women of the wall, it's not news, it's just irritating.
11. #4 Reuven Gods police force
Avi ,   Israel   (02.16.10)
i think you might find buddy that people have free thought unlike in Iran. How very arrogant of you to dictate to others how they should pray. These women have the right to worship in any way they feel like. The charideem and their extreme ways and violence are responsible for turning more people away from religion than anyone. We are all on our own paths and it is not for the likes of you to judge and slander others on your so called morals. God bless the women of the wall.
12. Ridiculous Behavior. Please Respond.
Jonathan ,   USA   (02.16.10)
We are all jews; however, we all pray in different manners, we sing different songs, and since jews hail from all parts of the earth, we might have completely different customs. After the Shoah, has our persecution taught us nothing? Religious Judaism, Reform, Conservative, and other forms, are all placed in the same boat when people who hate us, label us as, "the JEW." In a time when 90% of Middle Eastern people have an favorable view towards jews in general, is this seriously the best we can be? Why on earth do we behave like this; this behavior is reminiscent of two children playing in the street, fighting over a ball, but the real threat remains the countries that surround them, plotting their destruction daily.
13. The Torah Still Exists and Will Prevail
Hilary ,   Akron, USA   (02.16.10)
The Torah is not under any struggle. It is we who are struggling. The Torah exists beyond what any of us can imagine. So, therefore it is in our hopes and dreams as Jews that it will again be a uniting force for us, a light to guide our way in this world and in others. What will not prevail are the designs of mankind--- whether or not we see ourselves as righteous or wicked is of little significance. HaShem will let us hear for a second time, our hearts will be restored to us, and then we shall see it for what it is--- not what it is not. And all of us shall be gathered together from all corners of the earth...that means ALL of us. No one said this would be easy. We are family, not mortal enemies.
14. i think
mary ,   beitlahm   (02.16.10)
before jesus the worshippers in the temple were men but the mother of mary liked to have a son to serve the temple ..she was mary ..i think god wanted her a woman not becouse it was a pot to carry the spirit from god .becouse it was a woman to warship the god to deserve this bless .. but all profits are men ... so men have the abilities fore the carrying the message becouse they have no conseptions perids need evry moment to educate the others ..but sure women can worship teach religion in such time for groups but not for the world and humanity as profets .. haedim are not profets so tey are like women to warship but i think without singing .. i think it is better to warship silently it is better
15. Was there, not much to see....
Ilan ,   Ariel   (02.16.10)
There were as many police and photographers as WOW. Out of the thousands of people there yesterday morning perhaps a group of 20-30 non-WOW (men's side) even really gave notice to them. My daughter thought that the women davened nicely so it is not fair to say it was only a provocation. I still feel that the Robinison's Arch decision is best. It isn't about women praying together it is about the Reform and Conservative trying to erode the status of the Wall as a place of worship for Jews who want to worship as in beit knessset.
16. YNet - mouthpiece for Women at the Wall
Shalom Hartman   (02.16.10)
It's clear who's side YNet take, but I would like to ask the "thinking" public a question: In my days in the reform movement - some 30 years ago - I was explicitly told that reform do not necessarily believe in G-d; do not believe that the Torah is the word of G-d (rather inspired writing by the Rabbis); and that they do not want to see the rebuilding of the Temple - especially not with animal sacrifices. Now - in light of the above; if I was a reform woman, eating treif and wearing tefillin(!) - why would I want to pray at the Western Wall, which really would hold no holiness for me at all? The only one reason I come up with is to cause strife. I invite any of these ladies to join with the group of approx 30 ladies who travel to the Western Wall every day (sun, rain or snow) - Sunday - Friday, EARLY - before sunrise, (they aren't hard to find) to pray the morning service is holiness, and then see who are the real Women of the Wall.
17. To #1 and all orthodox
Norman Gellman ,   Rehovot   (02.17.10)
1. Many well respected Rabbis before the middle ages postulated that women can wear a tallit it was only in the middle ages that women were banned from wearing a tallit as it was deemed a man’s garment. Today a shawl is a women’s garment therefore the middle age ban is not relevant. 2. The orthodox attitude to women was codified in the 16th century which included that women were simple minded and could not be a witness. In this the 21st century women have proved that they are in no way simple minded as they occupy every type of occupation and have received Nobel prizes. In civil courts women are no worse and no better than male witnesses. Some rabbis have moved to drop this ban. 3. The separation of the sexes is based on the fact that there was a “women’s court” in the holy temple however we really do not know how it was used I suspect it was for menstruating women who are considered unclean from a religious view point and not as a general separation of the sexes. What is really needed is for the orthodox to realize we are now in the 21st century and modify their rules accordingly.
18. childish behavior
bec ,   ny, usa   (02.18.10)
when my kids have trouble sharing a toy and begin bickering, if we cannot solve the problem, the toy gets taken away. in this case, it seems that the odox think they have a monopoly on judaism and feel justified in provoking the women of the wall. i cannot imagine that any just god is going to be happy that his children cannot pray nicely together.
19. #4 zou got this all wrong Reuven
Lisa   (07.12.10)
you got this all wrong- it is NOT the women disturbing- it is the fanatical men-. Christian women are allowed to pray in churches anywhere- men are NOT allowed to harass other worshippers and yell at women- . IF the wall is as holy as you claim- then ALL Jews should have access to it and be allowed to pray there- it just proves how exclusive, backwards and narrow minded the men are. Quoting the scriptures has always been a excuse of weak men to suppress women- Women are created by the same God- did he create less perfect beings? Yes- no?
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