Jewish Scene
Gay with perfect faith
Nissan Strauchler
Published: 16.02.10, 08:08
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31 Talkbacks for this article
1. very good and important step
ghostq   (02.16.10)
for uderstanding, and acceptenss of the diferent in society. on the way to enlightment.
2. Hashem despises the sin not the sinner
Boruch ,   Beit Shemesh   (02.16.10)
Religious and gay is like religious and eating treif or religious and marrying a shiksa or calling oneself religious and saying they can not hold themself back from watching TV on shabbos or driving on shabbos
Israeli 2   (02.16.10)
This is only agenda based.
4. GOD´S plan with his chosen people
Leif Erik H.Niclasen ,   Argir Faroe Island   (02.16.10)
The Holy Book is against this new world order that you can accept to be a gay homosexual is okay and no one of us have to say anything bad against this, but realated to the Holy Book it is a sin, it is an evil spirit who come upon you, and are 1 of many thing that will destroyed the meaning of belong to GOD and be one of his chosen people, it was not God that create homosexuals, look back to the story about Sodoma and Gomorra where people in Sodoma want to have the Angel´s to play with for there lust, when they arrived to the house of Lotm but then Lot want to give them his daughters to play sexuals game with and they ( the man outside the house say No send us those two men who is visithing you so we can play sexuals game with them ) than yhe Angels open the door and blinded the person on the street, and the morning was coming and Lot anh his family was taking out of Sodoma and was given order to not look back, but Lot´s wife did that and was destroyed together with Sodoma and Gomorra , you now that Abraham spoke against the plan to destroy the citie´s if there was ten religious men there and you now the story to it´s end. So what is different in 2010 if God as he say about him self in the Holy Book, I AM THE SAME ALWAYS what have changed,? the men and the history have twisted to accept this and that so we too day say that were we back in time we will have accepted Sodoma ? Now way never ask God of forgivenes gat your selv a wife some children and pretend that this is the same creation as it was from the beginning so you could end in Heaven and not in Hell where Satan want you to end , because He the Satan want to destroy God´s plan for the human creation to destroy it in many way´s. There was a politician in my country that create a law to accept homosexuals in our community, and my menthor in the Bible said , he will die, and wiyh in a year he died, because my menthor new the Bible and what GOD want for us He will always help us back to the original plan to be his chosen people and not the stolen people. I have to spoke the word of GOD , so there is only one way , come to GOD with your twisted life and HE will repaire it, because HE LOVE YOU
5. 2 - are you sure?
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (02.16.10)
how do you claim god distinguishes between the sin and sinner from the clear words of torah? sure god despises the homosexual sin, but he punishes the homosexual sinner in the harshest possible way.
6. Kol ha-Kavod
Roscio ,   Rome, Italy   (02.16.10)
This is part of the richness and beauty of Judaism, the ability to face, discuss and deal with the evolution of society while maintaining our ancient roots. In Islam, they only know how to sharpen their knives for the next throat-slitting. In the Catholic Church, they only react with denial and scapegoating. News like this makes us all prouder to be Jews!
7. So what is the approach?
Gavriel ,   Budapest, Hungary   (02.16.10)
So what? Nothing new under the Sun. What exactly is their approach, speaking to Ortodox gays as they were "sick" persons and force them to undergo a "shock therapy"? The article didn't give an answer for this.
8. #5" Love your fellow as yourself"
Keren ,   IL-BR   (02.16.10)
"Do not hate your brother in your heart.You must admonish your neighbor,and not bear sin because of him" "Do not take revenge nor bear a grudge against the children of your people. You must love your neighbor as (you love) yourself.I am G-d" This is in Torah,Leviticus. If we can bring gays back to Truth ,they will, in time, understand their mistake and change. This lovingly approuch by Rabbis towards gays is very positive and deserves all support and praise.
9. to #2 lol that is for god to decide
ghostq   (02.16.10)
not for you, don't make his decitions what is sin and what isn't.
10. Not a chance I'd attend his synagogue
Baruch ,   Boston, USA   (02.16.10)
He's shoving homosexuality in the faces of all his congregants. It's an abomination, according to Torah. Orthodox Judaism is the next conquest for the GLBT crowd, after Reconstructionist, Reform, and then Conservative. If they succeed, I'll become a Moslem. You don't see much in the way of gay parades or gay rights in Islamic republics.
11. 8 - that's not what it says about gays
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (02.16.10)
there are clear & specific commands on how to deal with the homosexual and you avoided them. the verses you quoted speak of revenge (nothing to do with homosexuality) and loving your neighbor (again, nothing to do with homosexuality). why not also quote a verse which talks about the dimensions of noah's ark since you're bringing in unrelated subject matter to the conversation? there are clear & specific verses that talk about how to deal with homosexuals, about which you say nothing. why?
12. "punishes the homosexual sinner in the harshest possible"
Israeli   (02.16.10)
someone claimed God "punishes the homosexual sinner in the harshest possible way". How? Everyone gay I know lives very happy, productive, healthy lives. I know more religious hetrosexuals who suffer (disease, poverty).
13. #11 Why?
Keren ,   IL-BR   (02.16.10)
Because I don't want. Because I prefer to highlight what I highlighted. Why not? There is one answer: we don't have to accept a sin,but we must accept the one that has sinned. We have the concept of Thuvah in Judaism,and anyone of us can and should return to Truth,to G-d. With gays Jews is not different. They may have sinned for life circumstances,for wrong paths taken..but they can and should come back to G-d and to their People and we should not reject them but reach a hand to them ,if we can help. I believe evil people will turn away by themselves.We should not take the role of turning nobody of ours who want to come back away lest we do not commit a grave injustice.
14. #11 Why?
Keren ,   IL-BR   (02.16.10)
Because I don't want. Because I prefer to highlight what I highlighted. Why not? There is one answer: we don't have to accept a sin,but we must accept the one that has sinned.It is what these Rabbis say,as I understand. We have the concept of Thuvah in Judaism,and anyone of us can and should return to Truth,to G-d. With gays Jews is not different. They may have sinned for life circumstances,for wrong paths taken..but they can and should come back to G-d and to their People and we should not reject them but reach a hand to them ,if we can help. I believe evil people will turn away by themselves.We should not take the role of turning nobody of ours who want to come back away lest we do not commit a grave injustice.
15. 13 - pick and choose
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (02.16.10)
that's a nice philosophy, but it's anti-torah. picking and choosing what you like and ignoring the parts you don't like? seems i recall places in torah that talks about how god feels toward people who do that. you do what you want, not a problem here. just how do you say you are keeping torah when you ignore things that are clearly written in it? according to your definition, i'm keeping torah too.
16. Take anyone they can brainwash?
Josh   (02.16.10)
"the halachic prohibition does not involve negative treatment towards gay members of the religious community" "of the religious community" Getting like Obama and feeding of the vulnerable and insecure.
17. #15
Keren ,   IL-BR   (02.16.10)
There are christian sites where you can discuss your"torah". Here is a Jewish site. Stop being a hassling and sticky person.It is enerving.
18. 17 - don't you hate it when someone points out the truth?
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (02.16.10)
life would be so much simpler and easier if it weren't for those pesky facts and reality - i say we should ban them! actually, it's not my opinion - just telling you what is written in plain language. don't like what it says? tear it out of your bible. btw, christian torah = jewish torah = torah. is there any other torah? never heard that there is a difference.
19. mike, israel (formerly usa - There is no Sanhedrin anymore
Joe ,   Ramat Gan   (02.17.10)
There exists no halachic body with the proper authority to try and carry out capital cases. Even then, if you actually bothered to extend your understanding of Biblical Law beyond the constraints of the Tora itself by reading other legal documents concurrent with the Tanakh, you would know that by the time of the Sanhedrin's disbandment, the amount of evidence required to try and convict someone on a capital case was so weighty that a Sanhedrin rarely put people to death. People with your logic would interpret the American constitution as saying that black people are only worth 3/5 of a person because that's what is written in the Constitution. Never mind the amendments and never mind 200+ years of legal interpretation- if the Constitution says black people are worth 3/5 of a person, black people are worth 3/5 of a person!
20. Torah vs. US Constitution
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (02.17.10)
There is one huge difference between the US Constitution and Torah and that is the fact that nobody ever claimed the US Constituion was dictated by God and cannot be changed as is supposedly the case with Torah, which, of course, has been changed. Except for asshats throwing rocks at Israeli cars, nobody gets stoned (with rocks), anymore, just to name one change. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but it does amuse me that God always loses, when Popes and Rabbis don't like something God dictated.
21. Eating Shrimp & Lobster R The Same Abomination (PlusManyMor
Shirley ,   Allentown, PA. USA   (02.17.10)
Are all the comments allegedly from the ultra religious block by people who have eaten lobster or shrimp before in their entire lives? (both abominations against HaShem in the Torah) - or worse yet - wearing 2 different types of fabric - should folks who wear 2 different types of fabric be put to death as is instructed? Is cotton/poly fabric then an abomination? Are sacrices still in order or can we worship our G-d without it during Temple services? We must somehow move beyond what we pick and choose - to this very day - what we hold as holy and what we no longer do, for millennia, and welcome back so many truly G-d loving & G-d fearing people we have alienated from amongst our flock and bring them back into the fold to pray together with us. Yes there are sins but HaShem loves us all, not our sins (and we are all sinners) as another commenter pointed on here.
22. Gay with perfect faith
tj ,   grant pass usa   (02.17.10)
I am sure that our Father, who's word never changes, not today, yesterday, nor tomorrow. We say that it is wrong, yet we accept it? Do we mock God? When God said it was wrong for a man to lay with a man, did He mean just that one time? I think not. We are told to love the sinner, but not the sin. Has God changed His mind because we say He should? Or are we walking a thin line of blasphemy. Sin is sin, sin is unacceptable, sin is opposite of what God calls holy. Who are we to change the mind of the Creator? We all sin, but through His Son, we are to be holy as our Father in heaven is holy. Nations have passed away because of such vile rebellion. We are to be a light to the world, not compromising. Father, forgive us Your children for trying to win the respect and friendship of this world through compromise. Teach us by Your Spirit that we are not bound by sin because of Your love and the gift of Your Son, whose Name is above every named thing. Break the chains that have bound us and set us free in the Messiah, Jesus. Open our eyes and ears to Your truth, in Jesus precious and holy Name. Let Your truth set us free in Jesus Name!
23. Confused
Moshe ,   Jerusalem   (02.17.10)
I am confused, for some years I am trying to change my sexual attraction to men and now the Rabbi's are telling me I can be me and keep these feelings, then what about my wife and children. Does this mean I can lead a double life with the Rabbi's blessings. Which shul in Netanya does this Hod Rabbi belong to as I would like to meet him.
24. To#22:YourJesusMessiah IsTheReason4-2010Yrs.OfMasscresOfJews
Arturo W. ,   Tierra Del Fuego, CH   (02.17.10)
All of the secondary apostle's writings of the new 'testament' (Matthew,Mark,Luke,John) are based on the 70,000 word VERBOSE writings of {the Jew} Paul, formerly Saul of Tarsus (in Turkey). Paul NEVER ONCE mentions Jesus on Earth, NEVER ONCE mentions Mary, NEVER ONCE mentions the Sanhedrin, or accusations against this "Jesus" (really Jay-ZEUS, as in the greek god 'Zeus' of which the story is really based on - by the greeks who invented christianity), NEVER ONCE mentions a 'virgin birth', NEVER ONCE mentions any wise men (or Weissmans for that matter), NEVER ONCE mentions any trial against Jay-Zeus, IT IS ALL BASED ON OTHER WRITINGS ABOUT GREEK & PAGAN 'gods' OF THE TIME! After you take away all the lies about christianity, all you have left is a simple rabbi from Nazrit who tried to stand up against the monolithic roman gov't's occupation of the Land Of Israel & Judah! THAT, is plausible, the rest is DRECK! (Look up the famous book "The Passover Plot" on the internet!). JEWS HAVE BEEN MASSACRED, WARRED UPON, HOLOCAUSTED, MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD, IN BLOOD LIBELS - The psychotic german nun (Anne Emmerich who had 'visions' of Jews drinking german children's blood or using it in their Passover Matzoh - her 'visions' were transcribed into the famous 'Passion Play' that hitler viewed at the famous Oberammergau performance in 1934 {& annually since} - and he extolled to the world 'this play is why we must wipe out the filthy Jews of the world today' - ALL BECAUSE OF MORE LIES! The same psychotic 17th century german nun who that devil incarnate - mel gibson, may he rot in h*** - made the movie 'the passion about, The same psychotic 17th century german nun whose blood mr. gibson wears in a vial around his neck, shown in an American ABC News interview with him & Diane Sawyer) How much more SUFFERING CAN ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE MORE SUFFER DUE TO A PACK OF LIES KNOWN AS THE FALSE MESSIAH JESUS (Jay-Zeus) ????? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! PASS IT ON! SHALOM!
25. 19 - at least you're admitting israel isn't keeping torah
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (02.17.10)
everyone has their excuses for not doing what they are supposed to do, & when it comes to keeping torah by no means are we lacking a litany of excuses. no sanhedrin? then you're absolved from all those pesky laws. whew! glad you don't have to bother with those. is it any wonder, when it comes to torah, israel has consistently failed?
26. 24 thats right follow the god of mo-zeus
27. #20 & #25
Joe ,   Ramat Gan   (02.17.10)
M. Hartley - It's apparent to anybody with a knowledge of Ancient Semitics that the Tora was pieced together from various Jewish manuscripts from various time periods before the destruction of the First Temple. What was the criterion by which the Tora itself was pieced together? None other than the organic, continuously evolving oral traditions called the Oral Tora. mike - We follow both Torot- the Written and the Oral Torot. You can't implement a legal document or a series of legal documents without judicial commentaries explaining the finer points of the general ideas laid down in the most authoritative legal document. Besides, as I stated above, it is the organic, oral traditions that were instrumental in the literal piecing together of the Written Tora. None of this matters to you though because you're too busy grinding your axe against Jews and Judaism to care about and use objective facts and logic in your arguments.
28. 27 - just wondering
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (02.17.10)
why after nearly 3000 years it's not possible to implement a basic, clear, simple command? need more organic time to ruminate the finer points? no need to rush, i'm sure god understands you need to take your time to figure out how to obey his commands. you can drown a person in the commentaries, but bottom line is there's quite a lot in the written torah that is willfully being ignored.
29. To #27
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (02.17.10)
If you knew my background, even you'd be amused at your contention that I have an axe to grind as respects Jews. I will, however, admit that to me all Good Books are myths and fables invented and pieced together by people with one agenda or the other. Your opening statement will send shock waves through those folks, who firmly believe that God dictated every word, not one of which is allowed to be changed. Of course, when it's obvious that business as usual no longer makes any sense, here come the sages of whatever persuasion, who explain what God really meant. I'm sorry, but my God is not some nitwit, who can't keep things straight from one chapter and century to the other, goes through history approving some rather senseless and bizarre smitings, resorts to magic tricks, when all else fails, leave alone, needs to be explained by human beings, who barely use 10% of their brains, all of which aren't necessarily of equal quality. I forgot who made the statement, but they may have come close when they said something to the effect that Jerusalem, being supposedly holy to 3 religions, needs a non-denominational asylum for the religiously insane.
30. #28
Keren ,   IL-BR   (02.17.10)
We don't go after you in your evangelic environment.It is you who come to a Jewish site trying to teach us about your faith and your way in understanding your religion. We are not interested. Get some pride and go away,because you are exactly as unwanted as any other sticky ,inadequate ,gentile around,that is unable to go a milimiter deeper in your thick,rigid,being. But,what Isay is inutile,because you evangelics will keep harassing us untill we will be able to kick you out once and for all. Hopefuly this day is near,because you lot are just annoying(to say the least)
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