Even if the author trots out a bunch of gay Orthodox Rabbis, the Orthodox community will not accept gay sexual behaviour as "normal" behaviour. It will tolerate it at best. It may surprise people to find out who is gay but it won't change core beliefs.

What shocked most people I know (all datiim) is the abuse angle. That is what caused shock waves - the abuse, whatever form.

What is Mishali talking about? How did she decide what other people feel, and then accuse them of homophobia? For arguments sake, assume Elon is gay. Instead of condemning him, the community allowed him to live life as he wanted but asked that he avoid the appearance of having a relationship with his students (all above 18). Only when Elon could no longer control himself, was he "outed" against his will. Assuming the stories are true, the treatment of Elon was sensitive and kind.

My priest also used to be a gay and even touched me a lot when I was a kid, however it was not sexual at all. I am sure there are many Jewish rabbis who are gays not just Catholics so what is the problem here. live and let live.

A person is innocent until proven guilty. Why have so many' allowed convicted Rabbi Elon so quickly and without an investigation. If proven of abusing a young boy or boys he deserves the maximum penalty the law requires. However, if he is gay he has committed no crime.

ok... maybe not many, but they probably do exist. I do know a religious Jew who is gay, and simply decided not to tell ppl about it, just as he wouldn't tell ppl if he was asexual.

Agreed.

We dont really care if rabbis are gay, we all suspect they are anyhow, or that they frequent prostitutes. What they do privately is their own business, and that is not what happened here. It is a case of abuse, and moral turpitude. If he was hetero and and abused girl students, wouldn't there be an outrage? From a psyhcoanalytical view, I say that the excessive rabbinical laws enhance repression, and this comes out in forms of homosexuality and abuse, or violence. There have been several other cases of abuse in the Dati Leumi world, all rabbis, and yeshivot associated with Mercaz harav . In the past , the Roshei yeshiva swept it under the carpet. Now they have finally taken a stand - and they did the right thing.

What utter nonsense. What an axe to grind. The issue with Rav Elon has nothing to do with sexuality. Abuse whether it is against members of the same sex or members of a different sex is abuse. This is a crime of the most profound theft of everything that a person needs and requires to grow healthily and in balance; to be able to enjoy intimacy and be free to love from a place of profound respect, gratitude and humility. It could have been sex, it could have been physical violence, psychological violence. What do you have to say about Goel and his cult? Sister, you have anger issues that need to be healed.

Anyone who knows HaRav Elon; Anyone who has asked him she'elot (sought his advice); Anyone who has been to his shiurim (lectures); Anyone who has heard him lead prayers on the Yomim No'Roim (New Year and Day of Atonement); - will instinctively say that the accusations are baseless. Rav Elon is the personification of all that is good and Holy in this world. References in your blog averring to any fault in or questioning HaRav, should be deleted as baseless malicious gossip. ~ Harry "Hershy" Orenstein, Elazar, Gush Etzion

and they have become "issues". The rabbi deserves the benefit of a Court hearing. Right now he is being tried in the "court of public opinion" and, as a result, has no means of defending himself.

Finally, people arent acting bigoted. If he abused his power by touching students, he needs to be charged.

Harry, I can say yes to all of the above, and yes, my instinct was also to deny the mere possibility of such allegations. But to say he is hte personification of all good and Holy is avodah zarah = idol worship. You might as well sasy the same about Jesus or the Pope. Prophetic Judaism of the Torah does not accept infallability - perhaps they brainwashed you in yeshiva to think that.

Is there any evidence at all that the Rabbi is gay other than the unbased accusations from a lesbian who writes for Ynet?

Just as it is stupid to convict him without the fact,s its just as stupid to say, listening to him speak, render advice, or give a lecture, will tell you he is incapable of this crime. That's just dumb. I think the committee that investigated this knew alot more than any of us flapping our gums on the internet. I'm going with their conclusions.

Why does Yael think homophobia is at all involved in this case. We have a pedophile who abused children. Any psychologist will tell you that pedophiles are one of the worst sexual perversions in terms of recidivism and in terms of continuing into middle and even old age. Yael's blithe equivalencing of homosexuality with Pedophilia is in itself significant. Does she wish us to equate the two, and say it is ok if "consensual?" Is the only alternative one between living "in secret and in denial" and pedophilia? Why the attack on us "straights" because we don't approve of pedophilia? Get off your: "I (or my cause) are being besmirched) kick! This is not a case of attacking someone who "deviated" from the standard! I, at least, would have been as outraged if the minor had been a girl as in the current case! Leon

While I agree that Yael is finding homophobia where she finds "pedophilia-phobia", you are also finding something that is not there. There are bad people who are Rabbi's, and bad people who are not Rabbi's. I would not bet that the percentage of "bad" Rabbis exceeds that within the general population. We expect more of our Rabbis, and when they show feet of clay, we are more outraged. I hope the Roshei Yeshiva did the right thing, but I believe the law should intervene and that Rav Elon, if guilty should go to jail for a long time. Leon

The issue of homophobia is a non-starter Anyone whomever disagrees with the homosexual community is called a homophobe. The issue here is a person in a powerful position misusing his power in a sexual way.

I am gay, so it is refreshing to see that most talkbacks are not being homophobic. If this Rabbi is guilty of abuse, he will and should be charged. No one is perfect, not even our best Rabbis are perfect. I feel sorry for him if these accusations are true, but my heart goes out even more to the victims.

Reading all the articles in Ynet the last few days I decided to say my three cents. The best was the first by Sharon Roffe-Ofir. One has to remember that Rav Motti Elon is the same Rav as he was before, educated in Spirituality and Halacha, he has not changed, he is friend to many and I hope he remains the friend to those many because this is the time he needs to know he has a network of friends who can give him the support he truly needs. Not unlike a film by Chaim Elbaum "And Thou Shalt Love" about the trials of a young Yeshiva student had in his Yeshiva because he was "in Love" with his best friend and when he finally told him his friend did not want to know him, is that a friend, not in my books. A friend is someone who can continue to give support and love no matter what. I can't stand the talkbacks that down the Orthodox, lets face it this story made the news because everyone knows Rav Elon and is against what every one is taught, in black and white, thou shalt not lie with a man like with a woman. Lets first understand what this means, it literally means what it says, don't have anal sex, but loving another man is okay, I am sure plenty will disagree with my translation. May be and lets hope all this was about the love of another man and know more. If it was not Rav Elon but another guy that no one knows it would not have made the head lines just an article on the side and after three days we would all forget about it and move on to the next piece of gossip. Not to be nice but he made a foolish mistake and did not cover his tracks, like so many do and I am talking about secular and orthodox, Jews and Christians alike. When you’re a personality its ten times harder. Its not the first time I have written to Ynet on this subject, homosexuality, taboo in the orthodox world and yet so many suffer from it, that is so many religious people, men and women and non religious, but if your religious it opens the Pandora Box. How do I know so much, well actually to be fair I don't know all otherwise I would have healed my own wounds by now. For about seven years I have tried to change my own feeling of SSA (same sex attraction), married as well with a family I get the same respect as any other Jew gets but no one know what's behind the mask, the smile on my face, the other me the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hide, the hell I go through every day wanting what I can't have because I want to keep the faith, but we slip up at times, did not all of us, don't you, did you not steal that sweet off the sweet counter when you were a child or pick up a nut to taste in the supermarket, did you not learn that you must not steal. And who had sex before he or she got married, who had an affair while being married and yet you criticize this person, Rav Motti Elon for a few mistakes he made because he is Rav Motti Elon. Next time you walk past someone in the street it might be me, or give a handshake in shul it might be me and I did not make the news. Its time to stop homophobia, and its time to understand what Same Sex Attraction is all about, its time for tolerance.

If Orthodox society were more open to Gays then there would be less of a need to suppress those urges such that they eventually come out in unhealthy ways. But someone like Elon would not feel that he had any options to deal with such feelings. So, eventually,as they almost inevitably must, come out is destructive ways.

I don't give a ...... whather the Rabbi is gay or not. I do care however if he abuses his position. Care very much. You do not make that distinction, I wonder why?

Kol ha-kavod to a number of posters have spoken up, or broken through to understand, a) the difference between homosexuality as unacceptable acts versus un temptations b) that decent people are human and fall--but only those who LIVE in the gutter laugh and deride when the decent person falls to their level. The decent person will get up, clean the filth off and move on while those who laugh and deride are condemned to remain in their self-generated sewage. Much confusion seems deliberately injected by ynet, insisting on misuse of terms to drive their agenda whenever Judaism is involved. If a person is tempted to rob a bank but never allows that temptation to translate into actual intent or plan, is (s)he a bank robber? If a person is sexually tempted toward a neighbor's spouse but never translates the temptation into actual intent or plan, is that person an adulterer? No (for the benefit of Xns who would argue their Jzeus doctrines). Neither is a person who is tempted toward the same sex but doesn't translate that temptation into an actual intent or plan a homosexual. Those who suppress such tendencies are not guilty and they do not qualify to be labeled as if they were guilty. Every one of us has some weakness that we must overcome. They are no different in that respect than anyone else. They remain innocent and deserve great respect for their self-discipline--certainly not scorned or derided, making their life even harder. Look at the Xn world. Whenever a TV evangelist or preacher falls, Xns scorn, deride and ruin the unfortunate fallen. Let Jews not be like them. Some ignorantly argue that homosexuality is "wired" into the brain. First, this is only partially true. Human beings have a will that can override urges we deem unacceptable--the key word here. Homosexuals and those, like ynet and Hollywood, are driving an agenda to desensitize the public and make homosexuality acceptable AND, by coup d'état, the Torah UNacceptable (since the two are intractably contradictory and mutually exclusive; one negates the other). Second, neuroscientists have demonstrated that the brain "wires" and "rewires" itself according to a disciplined insistence over time; call it self-training or self discipline. JUSTIFYING "wired" behavior requires justifying all of the other aberrants who are no less "wired": incest, pedophiles, serial rapists, stalkers, serial killers, etc. Being "wired" is no exemption. Rather, it requires discipline to "rewire" over time and fight improper urges just like the rest of us do in other areas, which vary from individual to individual. Kol ha-kavod to those posters who have contributed in a positive way to encouraging decent people to forgive falls we all suffer periodically and to decent people who fall, respect, dignity and encouragement to get up and continue, having learned from their fall. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer (& Orthodox Jew) Advocate for Logic as Hermeneutic Halakhic Authority Welcoming All Torah-reverers (Jews & non-Jews)

The second line should read: a) the difference between homosexuality as unacceptable acts versus unrealized temptations

I think youve missed the main point. IF Rabbi Elon is guilty as (yet un)charged by the Takana committee, he has violated his professional obligation/contract as a teacher to his students, as well as his position of moral and spiritual teacher as a rabbi. This would be true if the students are male or female, children or adult. The charges are more heinous for adolescent students who are often uncertain about sexuality matters, others' as well as sometimes their own. In addition to the harm caused them, how can a teacher ever trust him/her self, judgment, intentions, and competence after such blurring and violating authority and responsibility. Hard enough to do if a teacher of strictly secular subjects; almost impossible with moral, religious, spiritual matters. Homosexuality and homophobia may be the issues at incidence here, but they are to my mind not the issues of principle. And both principle and practice may have seriously been violated if the accusations are proven correct. All this in addition to possible damages done to students and possible falsehoods ruining his reputation with his colleagues and the public.

Sexual assault has nothing to do with sex. The perpetrator is NOT looking for sexual gratification rather he wants to control and humiliate. Men who attack other males according to an enormous Department of Justice research project over 98% call themselves HETEROSEXUAL!!!!

I am sick and tired of this mindless self-victimization of the gay community. Scripture -and- psychology agree that the main reason one identifies with a specific behavior in others is that the behavior exists in the individual making the observation. You see in others those things you are guilty of YOURSELF. That goes whether or not the other person is guilty, and quite often, the other person is NOT. So, every time I express the fact that I am tired of having gay issues, gay identity, "out" or not, gay pride parade, homophobic everywhere, etc... you know what? I JUST DONT WANT TO HEAR IT. That is all. It does NOT make me a homophobe. It's not my business, I don't care. If I heard about it once or twice a year that would be one thing, but when you make it an inescapable issue in society, THAT is entirely another. Lets say instead of sexual preference, the issue was people who prefer free-form Jazz music. (lets call it FFJ.) Okay, thats fine. Good for you. I have no problem with it. But if I have to listen 5 times a day to a vocal and flamboyant FFJ crowd demanding equal attention in public, when they already have 1,000% disproportional representation in the media, I am going to get sick and tired of the FFJ people too. Does that make me FFJ phobic? Absurd. Go listen to your FFJ, and stop yammering about FFJ-phobia that exists only in your own delusional perception. Imagine the entire world mandated FFJ tolerance, would there not be a huge backlash of people insisting that is an infringement of our rights to listen to whatever the want? Yes there would, and think about it, that is just a -musical- preference for a subset of a large already accepted group, and it has no bearing on morality, whereas the Torah speaks to homosexuality in specific. Which means you are attacking the very heart of many people who have dedicated their lives to following Torah as much as possible. Sit down and shut up Yael. Your group is not being persecuted by people who are afraid of you. We are SICK AND TIRED OF YOUR PARADING SEXUALITY IN THE STREETS AND SHOVING IT IN OUR FACES EVERY DAY. Victimizing yourself to manipulate others by manufacturing guilt is a reprehensible act, justifiable only by a warped and perverted sense of fairness that would not be sated even if the entire world agreed with you. For then, your need to be "special" would find something else to accuse the world of. SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP.

I will go a step farther, Yael. I suggest to you that the reason homosexuals are so pathologically compelled to vocalize their sexuality and campaign for acceptance by the entire world, is that deep down, in their innermost heart, they feel a twinge that homosexuality IS in fact wrong, that maybe the Torah is actually right, and so then compelled to make EVERYONE agree that YOU are okay. So everywhere I turn, there are homosexuals desperate for attention, desperate for acceptance. Pathologically compelled to make sure everyone within 100 meters knows they are gay. I suggest the gay community is afraid, and is desperate for the rest of the world to tell them they are OK. That Leviticus is wrong. I also suggest THAT is between you and Yahweh, keep *me* out of it. If you want to make up your own religion, you just go right ahead. LEAVE MINE ALONE.

And a tangled mass of postmodern garbage!. I'm actually dumber for having read it. Psssh.

Yael, how dare you presume to speak for me or anyone else by accusing some vague "you"? What shocks ME (I cannot speak for anyone else) is the issue of sexual assault of a student by a teacher. Regardless of the gender of the teacher and the student. there should be no sexual contact between them. Period. I don't care if it's a male teacher with male OR female students, or a female teacher with male OR female students. Sexual contact between teacher and student is WRONG. And it is not homophobic to say so.