Opinion
State of Judea is here
Avraham Burg
Published: 18.02.10, 00:16
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23 Talkbacks for this article
1. Cynicism
daat y ,   jerusalem   (02.18.10)
Burg with his usual cynicism states mistruths.These Rabbis acted in a non-legal manner when the legal system which they appproached told them there is nothing they can do. The Takanah group has no punishment ability and is acting and protecting our students in a highly ethical way.
2. What doesn't Burg understand?
Isaac Balbin ,   Melbourne, Australia   (02.18.10)
It's called a Kehila. He has learned surely about the tradition of the Zayin Toovei HaIr? He just doesn't like it. He wants total assimilation into a State system void of groupings, especially (shock horror) religious groupings.
3. Two state solution!!! We need Judea!
Z. the monarchist   (02.18.10)
4. don't believe for a minute it's mazuz.
Eshkol Hakofer   (02.18.10)
more credit goes to elitist dr yosef burg. the father of mr avrum burg, the frenchman!
5. Fools march where wise men fear to tread
Ilan ,   Ariel   (02.18.10)
The only thing clear about this is that the full story is known by only a very few people. Burg, as has been his habit, seems to think that the particulars are less important than spouting anti-religious generalities.
6. Thus saith Antoine le Bourge -
Ariel ,   Europe   (02.18.10)
citizen of France, formerly the Knesset Speaker, formerly Jewish Agency Head, formerly Avrum Burg.
7. We Are An Integral part Of Israel: Burg Isn't
Yishai Kohen ,   YeShA, Israel   (02.18.10)
He can take his French passport and go elsewhere. The world is his oyster.
8. Burg reveals: Lefts live in State of Delusion
Brian Cohen ,   Judean Peoples Front   (02.18.10)
Burg's own Labour Party for decades ran Israel as a politburo within a state. Let's not forget that under the left wing Labour Party, rapists were often left off with light or no sentences, sexual harassment was a womens' problem, and racism was not legislated, but practiced by the leftists in power. And, of course, major economic sectors were handed over to families who were cronies of the people in power...and to this day they still have a disproportionate control over Israel's economy. Then, of course, came reality when the people woke up and rejected Burg's corrupted party and replaced it with Likud. Did we get any better? Of course not, but it helped break the old-boy network and replace it with more modern political corruption that is a little more transparent (but not enough, I add). The cherry on Burg's delusional cake is the failed Oslo peace process. Burg hates the governmental system he himself helped perpetrate, and hates the people and the country for voting at the polls against Oslo. Why? If Oslo was such a holy golden calf worthy of worship, then why do Israelis (including ex-Labour Party members) keep rejecting it? Burg lives in a shrinking leftist bubble within a state. Labour is imploding, and Meretz will probably disappear at the next elections. Instead of looking in the mirror and asking why, Burg and the other lefties on their sinking ship will blame it all on the "right" and the "settlers". Look in the mirror, Avram, and you'll see the cause staring you in the face.
9. Ideology blinds burg
Mike ,   LA - USA   (02.18.10)
We now learn that the Takanah Forum approached the police twice along the way. Oops! Also there is no proof (so far) that there has been any criminal activity. Your accusation what happened refects the 'simmering on the radical and Messianic margins of the settlers' is laughable. We are indeed fortunate to have your empty profundities on Israel's culpability. And doubtless your sentiments were aired with 'deep regret'. But guess what buster. As the consensus in the country shows - hats off to them for going public in this way.
10. Burg
Rivkalalala ,   Shomron and Judea   (02.18.10)
Totally missed the point Takanah , unlike its Hareidi counterpart, does the good job of defending the abused. Both in the Secular / leftist, and in Hareidi worlds, this concept of social justice does not exist When a Hareidi individual hits his kid or even torutures or kills her, they'll find every way to conceal it. And Jerusalem may burn down to ashes if needed so. In the leftist natioanl courts all you need to be is a raptist, abusive husband, you name it, and you'll be accorded the highest of honours. Who needs them? WELL DONE RELIGIOUS ZIONIST!
11. Accoiuntability within a peer group...sounds ideal to me..
Dan ,   Tel Aviv   (02.18.10)
12. To Avraham Burg
Post - Zionist ,   Israel   (02.18.10)
Sir , if you read this , I'm asking you , no begging you ,please return to politics , lead us . I for one will vote for you . Seeing you at Sheikh Jarrah gave me such hope , be our Obama ?
13. many states within the state
conspiracy theorist ,   Essex, UK   (02.18.10)
Perhaps Avrum is partially blind, he sees only the Zionist right, which he despises, but is blind to other mini states. eg, Peres and Beilin broke Israeli law, and wen tbehind Rabin's back to negotiate the Oslo talks with the PLO, before being elected, and whils this act was illegal (so they made it legal when in power). Rabin assassination: Evidence that other factors were involved were covered up, and dissenters assassinated, eg 4 doctors from Ichilov hospital were wasted. Evidence manufactured to get sympathy votes, eg the fodled song sheet with the physically impossible single bullet hole, which Peres waved around on tv. Other states: the anti zionist Haredi state, which doesnt accept israeli justice system, and riots to free its own murderers and abusers. The old labour zionist state, which felt fre to kidnap children of Yemenite Olim, and then cover up evidence, and close investigation. The NIF state, which works treachery and treason, falsifying evidence to assist the enemies of Israel, yet receives funding from all kinds of places. The Military state, which overrides State law, and carries out its own purpsoes, eg Sharon's invasion oe Beirut in 1982, which the PM begin only heard about from foreign press! The security state, where a long list of leaders and generals are knocked off by some merky cell in the Shabak, which is controlled by th real murderer of Rabin: Eg Raful Eitan; Arik Sharon (poisoned by his own doctors); Ghandi (his bodyguards conveniently disappear when he is killed); Ben Elissar, who was healthy but had a mysterious heart attack in paris. And where is Burg anyway? Is he in paris these days? Last time I saw him, he was flying on my plane to Milan.
14. Democracy and Morality at their finest
Chaim I. Waxman ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (02.18.10)
What is Avram Burg’s problem? As a intelligent liberal, he should be aware that voluntary associations are precisely what make democracy work and thrive (see Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America). The Forum”Takana” is a voluntary group within the dati-leumi community which is also voluntary. The forum has no judicial standing nor does it seek any. Its members are a spectrum religious and spiritual leaders within that community and their influence derives from the authority accorded them by that community. In the specific case, there were apparently no legal issues because those involved were legal adults who were not formal subordinates of the alleged perpetrator. Forum Takana acted as moral leaders, not legal judges. Would Burg prefer that the community and its leadership sweep the entire matter under the carpet, as it frequently done in other communities? How exactly would he have handled it?
15. "Our children" marry "our daughters"?
Jacob ,   Cambridge, UK   (02.18.10)
I find it both amusing and revealing that Burg writes of "our children" marrying "our daughters". I wonder if the fact this implicit assumption that people=males is in any way connected to the religion he writes about?
16. no state of Judea , he lost the plot
Eddie ,   london UK   (02.18.10)
a) So far, no criminal allegations have been submitted against Elon b) Homosexuality is not illegal in Israeli civil law, if it is above age of consent. c) elon has not been (yet) accused of abusing a minor. d) we are unclear exactly what information the Takana group had. e) The exile imposed on Elon is hte most severe punishment in the orthodox world,a nd homosexuality is the most severe sin in the Halacha. f) the takan has nto broken Israeli law, and they have dealt withthe case in a balanced manner, trying hard to minimize public embarrasment of the people involved. g) in 99, a rabbinic colleague of Elon, who served as head of Netive Meir yeshiva, was abusing boys, and he was investigated by police and jailed, after senior rabbis had suppressed information.
17. Isn't this the guy who left Israel for France?
sk ,   USA   (02.18.10)
After, of course, undermining Jewish safety in "his" country of Israel.
18. As a citicen of France
Todd ,   Tel Aviv   (02.18.10)
Burg has every right to support Hizbullah and Iran. He is a very good cocialist. Long live Obama!
19. check your facts first
Shhmuel ,   Tel Aviv   (02.18.10)
Mr. Burg NEVER misses an opportunity to take a swipe at Religios Zionism. Having grownup in a Religious Zionist home and having rejected it only to join the secular Labor Party the to have been rejected by them as a LOSER. Get your facts straight Mr. Burg this Vaad did report this to the Attorney General's Office (Mezuz) from the start. READ: http://www.kipa.co.il/now/show.asp?id=37152 You arn't een a shadow of what your father was.
20. French passeport
Michel ,   Jerusalem   (02.19.10)
Burg got the French nationality (by marriage) and voted at the last French elections ..
21. Mr. Burg
Maor ,   Caracas, Venezuela   (02.19.10)
You just hate whatever the National Religious community does, right? You use your cynicism to deepen the rift between the secular and the religious israelis. What you are saying is simply rehilut, 'cause nothing has been proved (yet). But oh, what can you know about sins? Maybe in France they might teach you, use your French passport and leave us once and for good
22. mr.burg
sophia ,   uk   (02.22.10)
you are welcomed to uk as well as france.there are many self hatred jews here.what about palestinian sitizenship?it helps.have a look at mr.barenboim,he is most popular conductor on uk media....
23. Burg Only Knows How To Criticize
Rube Vogel ,   Jerusalem   (03.07.10)
Where the law has proven impotent., religious Zionist leaders have acted to save children from predators. They did this with great care, discretion, wisdom and charity. Any "punishment" was voluntary. Burg is a fool to find fault with this. They desrve great credit.
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