Opinion
Is partition still possible?
Yaron London
Published: 25.02.10, 18:43
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1. Why create another Arab Palestinian state?
David ,   Boston, USA   (02.25.10)
regardless of which interpretation you believe (personally I believe Ettinger), why do we need to create another Arab Palestinian state? Jordan Palestine is already the Arab state. The Arabs in Judea and Samaria should look to Amman as its capital. Get rid of the PA. The population is already Arab. You have a minority Hashemite government leading a majority, very typical in states like Syria (another Arab Palestinian state). The solution is already there, stop fighting it and start encouraging it.
2. It's our land and we aren't partitioning it.
Chaim ,   Israel   (02.25.10)
Israel has made up it's mind long ago that this land is ours and we aren't partitioning it. That is why the parties of partition, Labor and Meretz, win fewer mandates every election. Nor are Jews in any real danger of becoming a minority in unpartitioned Israel. We are a growing majority. The answer is simple. Annex Judea and Samaria. Pay Arabs to leave as most want to. Canada and the Gulf Coast are their preferred destinations according to polls. It's win/win for everyone.
3. One state
Palestinian refugee   (02.25.10)
This analysis and all other analysis together with the facts on the ground leads to the only possible solution and that is a one state solution. We both Israelis and Palestinian should start to think about how to leave together without anyone controlling the other and let's build a new future for this great holy land. The two state solution will create two apartheid systems and you can't have a Jewish state that is democratic.
4. The ratios are irrelevant
Apa ,   NYC   (02.25.10)
Whether you are disenfranchising 10% or 60% is irrelevant. It is still an apartheid regime.
5. DEMOGRAPHICS
PAUL GUREVICH ,   NEW YORK USA   (02.25.10)
THE DEMOGRAPHICS DON'T MATTER. DISENGAGEMENT FROM THE WEST BANK WOULD MEAN A TERRORIST PALESTINE, WITH ROCKETS FLYING INTO ISRAEL, A LA GAZA. THE LAND MUST BE HELD ONTO, NO MATTER WHAT THE COST. THE WEST BANK SHOULD BE AN AUTONOMOUS REGION, SELF-GOVERNING INTERNALLY, WITH FOREIGN AFFAIRS CONTROLLED BY ISRAEL.
6. #3 - per the definition of "democracy" - yes we can
William ,   Israel   (02.25.10)
A State can have a set group of values and still provide equality to the entire population. Because one group, even a minority, may want to destroy the national character of the State doesn't mean it's undemocratic if the majority stops them. Actually - that IS the exact definition of democracy. Israel is built on Jewish values and IS a Jewish State. Full Stop! However, it allows freedom of worship, freedom of movement, freedom to peacefully protest, and bestows the right to vote, obtain education, work, and get healthcare to every citizen, per law. If that isn't democracy, please tell me what is. And for that matter, please tell me where a real democracy exists where a minority can take over and steal the rights of the majority, and still call itself a democracy. Regarding two States? No way! You had your chance in 1948 when UNR194 called for your return BUT to end all aggression. You refused...several times in history. Right now, you are 4 generations of ingrained anti-Jew agitators living on a revisionist history. Call us in another 4 generations after you've taught peace to your kids and grand kids, and admitted that many of the "Pals" are infact illegal economic migrants who never owned land. It won'y impact your future in getting a future State, but it will impact your future in destroying mine.
7. no palestine ever
jonathan   (02.25.10)
=D
8. The fallen dream of Zionist
Sami ,   Lebanon   (02.25.10)
Israel is a no future state in either situation. Partition or no partition, both situations won’t work. The creation of Israel in the Middle East from the beginning was an unsuccessful idea. Time goes and Israeli more and more feel the uncertainty of their existence regardless Israel is a military armed to teeth state depot.. A state that have the most fences ,walls ,security check points ,barricades security cameras ,security guards at every corner and every bus ,every public facility ,mall ,anti missiles anti rackets systems alerts, gas mask ready under the pillows , over 200 unclear heads etc….. and still no feeling of security and certainty . ……. isn’t a that failed state?. The high technologies from, Intel, Google, Microsoft, Raytheon etc …do not bring more respect to an apartheid state.
9. God promised
aiman ,   jersey   (02.25.10)
Correct me if am wrong didnt god tell abraham PBUH that the people of Ishmael will have their strengh in numbers. Listen to God and you will have your answers.
10. 3
zionist forever   (02.25.10)
There will be no single state idea there can only be 2 options avalible: 1) The most practical and thats to officially make Jordan the palestinian state. Long term its the only VIABLE solution. How long do you think the palestinians will be happy with a state that gives them at best 22% of mandate Palestine? They will have a growing population anyway and they will be taking in millions from refugee camps in other parts of the arab world. Also Jordan would probably deport a sunstantial portion of their palestinian population. Israel would also insist on this state taking in hundreds of thousands of Israeli citizens who would loose their citizenship when they find themselves on the wrong side of the fence. There is no way any Israeli government left or right will let the oportunity pass to get rid of arabs. Growing population shortage of land. Israel is tiny and it has 78% of what was Palestine and the palestinian entity would have just 22% They won't be allowed a military to defend themselves and is a symbol of independence. How will palestinians feel about Israel armed to the teeth just next door and every other country in the region having a military and as a condition of independence they have to fogo the right to have one? They have no natural recources or other sources of serious income. Very little land for growing crops so the majority of their food would be imported & they don't have enough land to have agriculture as a major source of income. The only thing they really have is tourism and that alone can't support a state. They will have a serious shortage of water with access to only 2-3 aquifers which again makes agriculture a problem. They will rely on Israel for passage between both parts of their state. They need a corridor that goes through Israel and I am sure Israel will reserve the right to close it at will. The fact is long term this state can never be viable. 2) Some kind of negotiated border to create an arab state that would have to many people and not enough land along with all the other problems. As the single state idea is never going to happen both the jews of Israel, jews in the diaspora and probably the evangelicals in the US will make sure it never happens which option would you choose? VIABILITY or IDEALISM they are the only options & the arabs are going to eventually face the reality that the 2 things don't go together.
11. Jews go by truth, not by numbers
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim,   (02.25.10)
12. It's already partitioned
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (02.25.10)
There is Israel and Jordan. The Arabs already have 78% of the original territory. We need to keep our same 22%.
13. Sami in Lebanon ! You're Nuts !
Yisrael ,   Jerusalem,ISRAEL   (02.25.10)
Your opinion of Israel is from your twisted media. Try to come here and see the reality ! We are not living in fear and insecurity. We don't need your respect. We are watchful, but not paranoid. Israel is the most successful state in the area. After 60 short years, we are almost a first world country, while Lebanon the beautiful self-destructed and sank into extremism and xenophobia. And YOU have the nerve to vilify us ?
14. The Canadian Solution
Yisrael ,   Jerusalem, ISRAEL   (02.25.10)
One state, Jewish by constitution, majority Jewish run, with autonomous Arab areas similar to Quebec in Canada. Where's my Nobel Peace prize ?
15. to William in Israel... YES
Michael ,   New York   (02.25.10)
I have never read it put better than what you just wrote here... Toda Raba...
16. Hey Sami in Lebanon
Michael ,   New York   (02.25.10)
I think you should look inward at your Hezbollah terrorist controlled state before looking at your democratic neighbor... how much freedom do you have Sami? I would guess NONE. How many Lebanese/Hezbolleze online newspapers can you FREELY talk back to. I would guess NONE. And what about us? How many of YOUR journals are we ALLOWED to talk back to that disagrees with your despotism in every ARAB country? HUH SAMI?
17. To #8, Sami
Howard Immanuelson ,   US   (02.25.10)
Sami, I would describe Lebanon as far more of a failed state than Israel. Israel is a thriving democracy and country in almost every sense whereas Lebanon is an Iranian proxy state with little say in its own divided and precarious future. All your Iranian masters have to do is give the signal and Lebanon will be plunged into a war that will devastate and perhaps destroy it. If I were you, I'd be a lot more concerned about your country's future. And by the way, do you even know what the definition of apartheid is, or do you simply use it to invoke a reaction?
18. Sami, you nailed it!
Mike ,   USA   (02.25.10)
Ca not agree with you any more, just want to add to the list that Israel, and after 62 years, still the only state with NO recognized borders, yet asking Palestinians to recognize it!! This can only prove your point that Israel is in fact a failed zionist-European project. Also, If Israelis feel safe as # 13 claims, why all Israelis have dual citizenship and over 75% of them said in a poll they will leave if a war will break with Iran or Hezbullah?
19. 8
zionist forever   (02.25.10)
You want to talk about failed states I happen to know of one which would be a perfect example of a failed state its called LEBANON. Twenty years killing each other. Your under occupation from Syria & Iran in 2004 you managed to end that occupation but then you allowed their Hizbollah proxy and now they are running Lebanon again. Then you invited Syria back through based on hatred of Israel and diplomacy. You have allowed a terror group to hold their weapons creating a situation which leads to regular flare ups with Israel. So you want an example of a failed state look no further than the country your living in. Israel has had decades of war thanks to the arabs, we have more political parties than we know what to do with. Groups like the haredi make themselves very unpopular at times but Israel has survived all of these problems. We have had no civil wars instead the country has prospered and is a major world player in many industries and it has a growing economy. The walls and fences that surround Israel is because of the arabs who have for decades tried to destroy it. Israel has probably been more succesfull than all 22 arab ones put together. We might not be as rich as the Saudis with all their oil, we might not be as large as the arab states but politically its financially its thrived while the arabs all failed .. its not the richest or largest but in general Israel has been a success story and the arabs have been failures.
20. #18 Mike. Israel is a magnificent success in EVERY respect.
Chaim ,   Israel   (02.25.10)
Israel is a nation barely 60 year old which has more companies listed on NASDAQ than anyone except the U.S. A nation which is a world leader in high tech. A nation which makes deserts bloom. A nation of medical miracles. A nation of astounding business success despite our lack of resources. A nation of military triumph. Israel is a magnificent success in EVERY respect.
21. #14 Quebecers vote in both Quebec and nationwide elections
Sam ,   Canada   (02.25.10)
Israel doesn't want to annex the West Bank and give the many Palestinians there the vote. Even if they did, Palestinians living outside Israel-West Bank such as in Lebanon etc would also demand the right to live and vote there and continue with aggression if not accommodated. In any case, Palestinians don't want a Jewish state to exist. The status quo will continue because negotiations are not close. The solutions being offered are mostly self-serving pipe dreams with no chance of being implemented.
22. No Israel, No Palestine
NMR ,   Vancouver, Canada   (02.25.10)
It's NOT possible, unless what remains of Israel after partition is recognized and left in peace. At the present, the fundamental existence of the Jewish State of Israel is not accepted by Palestinians and their supporters. Until that changes, there is no point in talking about partition. In a nutshell - "no Israel, no Palestine".
23. What's critical is control of Jordan, Negev, North borde
Dr. L. Brnd ,   San Diego, USA   (02.25.10)
Old Green Line can be made irrelevant. There is no existential risk to Israel of creating two states West of the Jordan river , "Allon plan-like" - with the qualifiers 1) The Arab state must be strictly demilitarized, only .22 caliber police pistols, barred from diplomatic, trade contacts with countries having none with Israel, 2) All harbors, airports, borders with neighbor states Israeli only - preventing arms smuggling, invasions, must include Jordan Rift Valley strip, 3) Jewish and Arab municipalities west of River can then be assigned to the Arab or Jewish state, the long tortuous internal borders resulting being irrelevant as long as Israel controls the external borders and ports of entry, 4) Entire Negev south of Beersheva becomes Israeli military reservation and solar energy farm, silly to farm crops and build waterless cities there. 5) "Contiguity" between parts of the 2 states created as needed with massive tunnels/overpasses. 6) EU, US, UNSC guarantee stability of the 2 states by severing all trade or diplomatic relations with any state not having 100% normalized relations and peace treaties with both of them.
24. Dr. #23 You call that state or an open roof prison?
Sami ,   Lebanon   (02.25.10)
25. Israeli Demographers can't count
jay ,   usa   (02.25.10)
A couple of yeats ago the official Israeli demographers admitted to double counting the arabs of East Jerusalem and also to basing the rest of the number of Palestinians on UN provided statistics. This pathetic and unscientific group should not be relied on to determine existential policy.
26. Williams #3
Sami ,   Lebanon   (02.25.10)
Williams ,you contradict your self. You are proclaiming democracy and the same time you showed how far you are from it. Definition of democracy? When the majority impose their will on the minority this what you understand? We all sing democracy, we all want democracy .democracy is the right is heaven etc…Unfortunately democracy is the best from the worse social system humanity ever known and experienced so far. We all stick with democracy because we are unable to invent better. But how many black holes and this system has ? depend on many factors. The fact that 2 stupid misinformed citizens defeat 1 genius well informed citizen in the election, give you an idea how much democracy is a relative system. Quantity versus quality ??? Here where the media is the key point on forming the mass conscience. The media is owned by corporate, wealthy investors and push their point of view that follow its agenda. In US the moron George W.Bush was elected twice by democracy simply because the media can easily manipulate a population with no political culture by a couple of well made commercials and that is why in US only wealthy personality can come to power. Israeli political system is not in better shape with all its behind the door deals ,black mail and “chantage” for government post and ministry chair between small parties .You know better than me. “Israel is built on Jewish values and IS a Jewish State Full Stop” Can you insight us what are the super Jewish values? The fact you say a Jewish state, main you put Jew in upper category of the living within citizens and this is already discrimination and not democracy. Any regime based on ethnicity, race, religion is a none democratic regime Full stop. ,” and admitted that many of the "Pals" are infact illegal economic migrants who never owned land” This is really a complete rubbish and wont bother to comment here.
27. One thing is clear
Ron ,   Tel Aviv   (02.26.10)
Every state will have Army, airplanes, and all weapons it has money to buy. That is the point. All other things are are not true. Why Jordan without weapons - Joke. Nobody wants to kill all Arabs in Jordan, and they will buy as many weapons as they can buy. The same for kings in Arabia or Syria. Have money - buy weapons.
28. #14 the Canadian solution
Sami ,   Lebanon   (02.26.10)
If there were a Nobel Prize for stupidity you will get for sure .From where you learned that Quebec is autonomy in Canada? Quebec is an equal full right a province of the united Canada with equal right citizen. There are some separatist inspired nuts .Yes, but who care the majority if for united Canada. The Israeli Zionist ideologist thinking day and night how to camouflage the apartheid state they created under different names and fantastic autonomy ,confederation with Jordan ,Jewish state only etc…. You in Israel should first get ride of the18 century ideology called Zionism .Zionism has lot taken off from Communism and Nazism about socialism and race superiority. Both ideology ended up catastrophic for own nation and the rest of the world.. Nazism destroyed civilization and own country by war ,communism made from soviet Union the worse Dictator ship in the 29 century and we were close to third nuclear world war for simple stupidity.. All regimes base on ideology sooner or later will fail. This is the history. Come back to the roots buddy as liberal open mind Jews .We have no problem we Jews as nation or religion called as you want. Israel is a failed state because it was created and based the myth land promised by God as if God is a contractor dividing his property, and all the rest craps. You can dig very deep looking for jew bones buried 2000year ago to prove your ancestry but that don’t give the right to slave other nation. Myth sooner or later will evaporate.
29. Odd comment Sami #24, your country expelled all its Jews!
Dr. L. Brnd ,   San Diego, USA   (02.26.10)
No "prison" - Any residents of the demilitarized PA state or the Arabs of Israel who don't like this arrangement to assure the safety of the Jewish state are free to emigrate to one of the 23 Moslem And Arab states. Just as Russian Jews came to Israel. After all, Sami, your country (Lebanon) forcibly drove out 95-100% of its Jewish population, as did Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Algeria, Egypt and Iran. Why would a PA state need a military or access to weapons if all they want is to live in peace, and with the excellent IDF protecting them from outside threats? Abbas already agreed with demilitarization, and this concept gives them more land, which Israeli security doesn't need as long as they control the external borders with the neighbors. Arabs who can't express their self-determination without a bomb in their hand are not going to be part of this 2-state "land-for-peace" solution. They can go live in the Hezbollahland open-air prison.
30. Sami and others
C   (02.26.10)
Your claims/views of zionism are not correct and not part of what Israelis think. Unti Arabs and especially Palestinians understand what zionism means to us, no solution will be found and this conflct will continue. Israel is not failing my friend.
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