Jewish Scene
Closure order against school for Ashkenazi girls only
Yaheli Moran Zelikovich
Published: 14.03.10, 17:54
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1. wow.
raphael ,   vienna/jerusalem   (03.14.10)
did we fall this low already? i feel deeply ashamed of my country right now. i will rebook my flight to thailand instead of israel, just because of this. i dont wanna make vacation in a country where the same people fight each other.
2. "Mizrachi" Jews have faced discrimination
Israeli grandmother   (03.14.10)
for generations, as my Sephardic friends have reported to me. Now the ugly face of Haredi Ashenazic exclusivity has been seen by the general public, and the Public rightly, is disgusted. It is intolerable that after centuries of discrimination against Jews (of all streams) by the goyim in the Golah, an intransigent part of the Haredi Ashenazi system is doing the same to our non-Ashkenazic bretheren. The Israeli Government, headed by the Ministry of Education must root out this disgusting "selection" forced on our schoolchildren.
3. How about this for a solution?
Naftush ,   Israel   (03.14.10)
Ashkenazi girls in the front, Sephardi girls in the back. Separate doors and separate collectors of school-trip fees. Separate hours and separate days are a possibility. And a genetic modesty squad to keep the whole holy thing in line. And YIddish-acceented spokesmen to tell us how the swarthies, er, the Sephardis, like it that way.
4. Separdi / Askanzi Education
The Last Zionist ,   Eilat   (03.14.10)
The Mizrachi Jews should continue with their own religious education rather then being bastardized like the SHAS leaders. The have a beautiful, tolerant tradition that should be continued.
5. I am sfaradi. The issue is stupid
golan ,   modiin   (03.14.10)
you have mitshaknezim sending their kids to a school which does not want them and why? Because you think being a vuz-vuz is something better? Beit Yoseph is a great way to teach your daughters to be imbecilic know-nothings who "know" more "information" about pouring water on their hands than having Tanaakh knowledge. And all this for what? Gefiltefish? Red Fish is better. And just because Sfaradic accent as as stupid sounding as a southern hick in Mobile does not mean we need to send our kids to learn to speak like New yowkows with their cowfeh. Bottom line is Ashkenoisy is not better. Its just more annoying.
6. discrimination
the plastic barrier ,   Israel   (03.14.10)
seems a fair solution to separate the girls. hooooo haaaaahaaa.
7. Where is "derech Eretz" in this issue ?
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (03.14.10)
Has giving respect to others not a great importance for those people ? What will they say when seculars will tell them they are NOT admitted here or there ? Does this "racism" not bring some bad memories to them ? Did'nt we suffer , all of us , enough from this evil ? They are different ? every Jew is different from any other one , there are NO two Jews who are identical . You don't tolerate them ? why should others tolerate you then ?
8. Like the sphardi don't discriminate?
Josh   (03.14.10)
Saphardi discrimination is the greatest source of askanzi american Jewish flight from Israel. Just because they use squads similar to muslim "modesty squads" and most victims don't make the connection between one attack and the other, doesn't mean that Askanzi are the the only one holding the racist bag. All you racist disgust me. THIS IS NOT TORAH! Brother! Grow up!
9. Thank Mr. Shoshani
Sagi   (03.14.10)
You are an honorable man. I hope there will be more like you. I hope you will not be a spec in the ocean.
10. what year are we in ???
(03.14.10)
11. Women to the back of the bus. Sephardim off the bus,
Meir Elazar   (03.14.10)
Falashim back to Africa. This is against all Jewish values. Kol Yisrael Arevim Zeh Ba;Zeh. This is the kind of behaviour we can expect from Arabs, HAMAS murdering Fatah and Fatah striking back. With all the problems and enemies we have, this is totally unnecessary.
12. I am beginning to agree with those
Sagi   (03.15.10)
who call Israel an "Apartheid State". After all we have separate everything for everybody, from schools to villages to neighborhoods and suburbs, from sector this to sector that, from denomination this to denomination that, from color this to color that and even from origin this to origin that. I find it quite repugnant and it is time that we get a grip on ourselves before it is too late. Do we need sociologists and psychologists and demographics experts to tell us this ? Are we not sufficiently wise enough, intelligent enough to understand that we are leading ourselves to the edge of the abyss. This country of ours may be a modern "miracle", an economic success, but in order to preserve it we must make peace with our surroundings and then with ourselves. At the moment the finger is hovering too close to the self destruct button. All the warning lights are flashing but alas, nobody is heeding them.
13. If our "Government"
Sagi   (03.15.10)
does not bring in legislation to prevent this separation nonsense then I for one shall separate myself from this country. We are tearing ourselves apart and we are blind to this fact. Our enemies are lapping it up big time. How foolish we are.
14. An instructive "Rambam"
Roland Seener ,   London England   (03.15.10)
Whether you are Ashkenazi or Sephardi,we have common ground that we believe the "Torah is Temimah".HOWEVER...Pronounciation wise,it is a different story,and results in a divergence on a fundamental principal between the two communities.One side or the other cannot therefore claim that the Torah is Temimah in a Synagogue not of their regular cultural back-ground.Also the meaning could change .It is preferable to attend a Synagogue at the end of the permitted distance allowed to travel on a Shabbos to be completely at ease with the Torah Reading,than one nearer for convenience.Is this why Beth Yaakov insist not to inflict an oppinion which they hold on Sephardi girls?I cannot believe it can be otherwise as all Jews are instructed to "Love thy neighbour..." and Beth Yaakiov up-holds the highest principles of Judaism.More on their reason should come out as to why they have adopted such an attitude, which for them has resulted in unusual legal and secular intervention.
15. Welcome to Afghanistan
Avi ,   Israel   (03.15.10)
Of course they could have two entrances one for whites and one for blacks ? One should ask where such children learnt their so called morals ? Parents , religious institutions, they should be ashamed of themselves. tottaly discusting.
16. #12 Sagi for PM
AVI ,   Israel   (03.15.10)
Sagi is 100% its official we are now an apartheid state.
17. Well, the Sephardim and the Mizrachim can't blame it on...
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (03.15.10)
...Mapai this time!!!!
18. Avi # 16
Sagi   (03.15.10)
Well thank you Avi, I am flattered but much too wise to consider it under the present circumstances, just as we have a myriad of capable people who steer clear of politics in this country because if you lie down with dogs you get up with flees. We have to clean out the kennels.
19. to #16 quit whining and do somthing
ghostq   (03.15.10)
instead of this helpless blatant vote not to give them money than you won't have any problem, sheesh. it's your gov your education system than do something. the aparthide is not something to use for your political gain if you only knew what it means, the Brits really abuse Africans, literaly. so please show respect to people who were abused, and find your own turm to someone cause you might hurt south african feelings.
20. great
Dito ,   Amsterdam   (03.15.10)
An all white school!
21. Wow, how time flies ....
Noa   (03.15.10)
so fast we didn´t have enough time to change clothes from the ones we wore in middle age Poland, and now we just realize that these girls are no olim from North Africa but born here in Israel just like our girls - or no, wait, we haven´t realized it yet.
22. hmmm
Rachel ,   Staten Island, NY   (03.19.10)
My father is Sefaradi and my mother is Ashkenaz. I wonder where they would put me? Maybe let me come three days out of six. Or cut me in half... Good thing I don't believe in this and don't practice.
23. And the reverse?
Motic ,   London England   (04.12.10)
What would happen if Sephardi Rabbis set up schools to teach the minhagim of Sepharad? Would they be prosecuted for discrimination against Ashkenazim?
24. I live in Emanuel
RG ,   Emanuel Israel   (05.07.10)
I live in Emanuel. The girls who attend the Beis Yacov Chasidi in Emanuel have their roots in the following countries: Iraq, Persia, Morocco, Kurdistan, Yemen, India, Egypt, The Old Yishuv here in Israel, Tunisia, Poland, Hungary, Russia, Germany. What makes this school different is its standards, in particular standards concerning tznius (length and tightness of dress), no makeup, no MP3s, exposure to media, etc. The parents who objected to the current standards of the city Beis Yakov either bussed their girls to Bnei Brak or tried to start another school. The demographics here changed. Chassidim were moving out, and the flavor the original Beis Yacov was becoming more modern. Outreach programs began in order to encourage people to move the original Beis Yacov back towards its original narrower interpretation of the Israeli Haredi lifestyle. This did not succeed on a wide level. The formation of the Beis Yacov Chasidi was an effort by members of the original Chassidic population here to re-create the kind of Beis Yacov that they had a decade ago. It was a stricter school – in terms of dress, exposure to media, even to some aspects of Haredi culture that they feel is not for them as in Haredi “rock music”, choice of careers, etc – and certainly NOT of an “Ashkenazic” school. One of the original founders of the Beis Yacov Chasidi, in 2007, was Rav Ba’adani, a gadol (very well respected Rabbinical authority) who happens to be Sephardic. Additionally, there were two families who had daughters in both the original Beis Yacov and the Beis Yacov Chasidi at the very same time, I love the variety here, some of which must be preserved in diverse educational institutions. Variety has been instrumental in the survival of the Jewish people, both nationally and individually. Because of its small size, Emanuel has been a nice place for people to get to know members of different kinds of communities more easily than in a large city perhaps. That makes this horrendous media fabrication all that more ironic – and painful. Next time you hear a news story that touches you, please contact people who live locally to get a sense of what is happening. What this story really is about is media provocation and misinformation, a public who does not scrutinize its journalists enough, and inappropriate judiciary activism. Shulamit Amichai, the mankal of the ministry of Education in 2007, is not religious, nor is attorney Mordechai Bass, who came from the Mevaker HaMedina (the Israeli equivalent of the Better Business Bureau) to investigate the situation here. He spent three days in Emanuel, speaking to a wide variety of people here. He found that there was NOT ONE person in Emanuel who said, “I wanted to come to the Chasidi school and was not accepted.” NOT ONE said, “I know someone who applied to this school and was not accepted.” He thus said, since there was no rejection, how can there be disctimmination? His conclusion was that the new school was based on religious differences and not on ethnic differences. There were at least seven Ashkenazi families who did not attend the Chasidi school when it first opened. Some were not interested philosophically, others has a wait and see attitude. The parents of the girls in the Beis Yaakov Chasidi who happen to be Sephardic petitioned to meet with Supreme Court Judge Admon Levi, who handed down the recent decision. He refused to meet with them. Please use your energy to question the media and judicial activism. Do not let them dupe you. I live in Emanuel. Come visit.
25. Original court documents
(06.08.10)
Attorney Mordechai Bass’ evaluation of the Beis Yaakov Emanuel case: “The percentage of Ashkenazi families in the original school is 23%, and in the new (Chasidi) school, 73%.” (Footnote at bottom: “Such figures are not totally accurate – firstly, the schools do not note the ethnicity of their students in the registration – and this is a good thing! Secondly – this figure was…partially based on the tenor of the family name, which can also be inaccurate.” ) “All parents wanting to sign up their daughters to the new school, and were ready to accept upon themselves the school’s conditions, were accepted (lit. “not refused”). Since there was no rejection (of any applicants), where is the discrimination?” Physical separation between the two schools – fact or fiction? “…photographers claimed that the cloth that was placed on the (pre-existing) fence prevented the girls from seeing each other. This is not true. Only part of the fence was covered. The yard surrounds the school from four directions, and the girls (from both schools) are able to see and play with each other. The (media) portrayal of two completely separate sections of the school yard…is not true.” “I spoke to the plaintiffs and asked for one instance of parents who asked to register their daughter and was refused and they had no such case. Attorney Bass reiterates that accusations of physical barriers between the two schools were exaggerated and that indeed there was free access between the girls of both schools. He notes that the new school occupies (the third floor) rooms which were unused. () “The division was not ethnic, it was religious. I am convinced that there is no ethnic discrimination.” “When ethnic discrimination actually occurs, we must combat it with all our might. I express my sorrow about complaints like these - thrown in the air - that increase hatred among Israel , and are totally baseless.” Synopsis of letter from Rachel Guveri, head of education, town council of Emanuel, to Emanuel’s mayor Ezra Gerashi December 2009 As my duty as head of education, I check on the schools and kindergartens. I have visited the Beis Yaakov School five times this year. Concerning allegations of discrimination that have arisen: There is no separation wall in the school. There is one uniform dress code for the whole school. There are no separate recesses. The yard is shared; the girls (from both schools) play together. The students are happy with the situation. Registration – each family was given a choice at the beginning of the year which school to choose from – Chasidi or general. Prayer – each girl prays according to her home custom. In the first grade they receive a prayer book from the Sephard tradition. Girls learn the gamut of Jewish law, both Sephardi and Ashkenazi traditions, as a seamless whole. Both schools learn the same curriculum. The rules for both are the same. There are teachers who teach in both schools. I see that the girls are happy in these schools. (Additionally) the new Mayan-Shas (Beit Rachel and Leah) school has a nice atmosphere and the girls are happy. There are schools in Emanuel for all to choose from for their individual needs. The directive to unite the two Beis Yaakovs has opposition from parents in both schools. I recommend allowing (the Beis Yaakovs) to remain two separate tracts – Chasidi and general, this is the first preference. Rachel Guveri
26. And the reverse?
RG ,   Emanuel Israel   (06.10.10)
The Beit Rachel and Leah School, under the Shas-Mayan network, also opened in Emanuel in 2007 with no media or court attention I live in Emanuel
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