Rethinking Palestine
Martin Sherman
Published: 17.03.10, 11:22
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1. Incredible
Smith ,   TA, Israel   (03.17.10)
This is sheer racism and chauvinism. I have long been skeptical of Edward Said but I have to say that this is the worst kind of Orientalism I have seen in a long time. This is why Israel is on a one way path to pariah status and, if it doesn't really come up with ideas, self-destruction. Who do you think you're kidding Sherman? We'll pressure the Palestians to leave via "the rigours of Israeli control" and give them some money when they leave so it'll look voluntary and humanitarian? I'm not an idiot and neither is my wife. Shame on you. Sometimes not having an idea is better than a truly awful one.
2. The "Palestinian state" concept came up only once the Arabs
Jehudah Ben-Israel ,   Qatzrin, Israel   (03.17.10)
realized that the main goal of the Muslim-Arab world to wipe Israel off the face of earth in a full-scale-war was not attainable. This realization came about after the Yom Kippur War, 1973, thus the PLO's "change of heart" that was expressed in 1974. The goal, and we must not loose sight of it, has always been the elimination of the nation-state of the Jewish people on any parcel of land, be it in one-fell-swoop or in stages. A "Palestinian state" is just one of those stages. Thus, the way out is to focus once again on the principles of UN Security Council Resolution 242, as is. 242 , while calling upon Israel to withdraw its troops, it clearly states from "territories", not from all of them. 242 does not at all call for the warring parties, Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Israel to set up an additional state in the region, not even one time! 242 does not even mention at all concepts such as "Palestine", Palestinians" or "Palestinian state", none! And therefore, based on 242 as is, Egypt should take over the Gaza Strip and incorporate it. And Jordan should, also through talks and agreements with Israel, assume control over much of the so called West Bank.
3. History...
John ,   Jerusalem   (03.17.10)
...is a long time Mr Sherman. The (very sad) truth is that the wisest among the Israelis fear that it will be Israel that will fail the test of history. Threatened from the north and south by increasing radical terrorist groups, shallow alliances with Egypt and Jordan, a fractious relationship with a steadily weaker global superpower (that will be replaced by a far more pro-Arab China), a financially and reputationally costly occupation, an increasing and increasingly extreme Arab citizenship, a disunited Jewish polity stretching from ultra-secularists to ultra-orthodox with everything in between. Israel's best hope for it's long term strategic security is a comprehensive peace based on a two-state solution. There isn't time to waste on your wet-dreams of relocating the Palestinians to third countries.
4. New Paradigm
Dan ,   Titusville, FL   (03.17.10)
A Palestinian State is no longer an option nor is it even available. Palestinians have destroyed their future and that of their children. The world must admit this for there to be a new renaissance in the Middle East and a reduction in Islamic terrorism.
5. Excellent if non-PC discussion
Israeli grandmother   (03.17.10)
I have long believed that UNWRA has full responsibility for perpetuating the misery of the Arab refugees, although its ignored that many of them are now wealthy. See for instance Hamas leader's new $4K palace currently being built in Gaza, the massive luxury housebuilding in all the Arab "West Bank" villages, just for starters. Most of the PA licenced vehicles on the roads are latest models, not the old crocks or donkey transport of earlier times. The employment opportunities provided by UNWRA are replaceble by commercial opportunities in a society which functions with a normal economy, not based on institutionalised graft and charity hand outs. As Sherman points out, if there was the will to improve their lot and not constantly incite to racism and murder in neighbouring Israel, the refugee problem would have been long solved.
6. OMIGOD ! Common Sense ! Of course it cannot be accepted !
Yisrael ,   Jerusalem, ISRAEL   (03.17.10)
The Arabs of former Palestine are too useful as a tool for all kinds of interests to be so brilliantly taken care of. So this plan is no good. I am afraid it will end up being us or them, and I choose us. Islam seems to celebrate death, and I fear we will have to help them celebrate. Not our choice, but theirs, alas !
HUNGRY TIRED AND HOMELESS *** all world hand in hand and beating them in many ways. *** cut the philisophy. and say one thing ! FREEDOM TO PALESTINE. Atilla Karagözoğlu Day 2 to the freedom of Plalestine Amen amen amen
... FROM ALL OVER WORLD. free palestine free palestinians thats all. Atilla Karagözoğlu Day 2 to the Freedom of Palestine
period   (03.17.10)
10. imaginative new initiative
creative ,   israel   (03.17.10)
Unilateral dis-engagement from Pali areas. Israel should decide it own borders, let PA control west bank Arabs.
11. Sorry Mr.Sherman But you are rude
Salma ,   Palestine   (03.17.10)
Keep your suggestions to yourself, we do not need them ....it's not UNRWA which teaches love Palestine.... For example, i was not studying in UNRWA schools ...did not deal with them personally....i know it's hard to you to know this.... Arab States responsible only for its citizens and we do not want any nationality, but the Palestinian.....From a time that extends for over a 100 years and the pure Palestinian land is faced by fierce attacks and trials which sole goal is to erase its Palestinian identity, to divest Palestinians from their land, history, civilization and heritage. Because it lasted for over a 100 years and because half of the Palestinians live as refugees scattered all over the world away from the mother land it is our obligation to hold on and adhere to everything related to our holy land: our heritage, olive trees, customs and tradition, our blue coasts and redness of the land, to the purity of our water to all of that so as not to forget our seized lands and that we have the right to return.....Thousands of martyrs, wounded and captives and yet there are millions living across the globe that do not know of this holy pure land called PALESTINE NOT "ISRAEL"....the whole world try to take my love ( Palestine) from my heart .they can take our life before they take Jerusalem from our heart....and as MAHMOUD DARWISH said They did not recognize me in the shadows That suck away my color in this Passport And to them my wound was an exhibit For a tourist Who loves to collect photographs They did not recognize me, Ah . . . Don't leave The palm of my hand without the sun Because the trees recognize me All the songs of the rain recognize me Dont' leave me pale like the moon
12. To eliminate UNRWA would change nothing.
David ,   Australia   (03.17.10)
No country is obligated to give citizenship to refugees. They are only obligated to look after them until they can return home (to Israel in this case) or to another country that will accept them as citizens. The resposability of looking after them just changes to the UNHCR. It is not true that they would lose their refugee status. Until they become citizens of another country they remain Israeli citizens (last place of legal residence) who are unable to return to Israel. That is the definition of a refugee.
13. To Salma 11
Dov ,   Poleg   (03.17.10)
My parents will never go back to Aden and my In-Laws will never go back to Tripoli. We're in Israel to stay! You will never have a Palestine! Maybe in Jahnam! LOL!
14. They already have a palestinian state...
Nisse of sweden   (03.17.10)
Am i mistaken in thinking that the good ol chaps of the british mandate took a good 75% - or somewhere there about - back in 1922 and turned it into the arab part of british palestine? They call it Jordan! The dates and their significance in Israeli and "pre Israeli" history is sadly missing from the "conversation" on Israel, atleast in Europe... Any other state would be bad news for Israel. A weak fatah like state, tolerating/unable to stop terror, or an all out hamas like state. Anyway, Israel wouldn`t be allowed to hit back. If your not good trustees of the land, you shouldn`t have any!
15. to #11 salma unwra was suppose to be
ghostq   (03.17.10)
temporary org but you palis turn it to permanant well fair entity the money for their work is basically taken from someone else pokets and not to work that is manufactor and gives any revenues, but than again you palis don't like to make yourselves but take someone else money or donations and just in case you wonder this is the opinion section it's free, you know in DEMOCRACY people can speak their minds, and JEWS were also called palestinians you Arabs "borowed" the name only since the mid 80's untill than you were called Arabs not making this up cause I saw Mandat British coins with hbrew inscription on it your leaders tryed to rewrite history cause that is how they can controll you and hide the truth you don't belive me here :) here a bank note in hebrew from that era the bank was partly owned by jew partly own by Brits(no conection to arabs), http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%91%D7%A5:Five_hundred_mils.jpg
16. #11 SALMA
OZ   (03.17.10)
repeating a myth doesn't make it any truer... it's still a myth. you and your"motherland" were jordanian citizens pre 1967. you never aspired by intifada or otherwise to have your motherland then. king hussein pictures and posters were everywhere in cites acroos judeah and samaria. at the end of the day, as sherman popnits so brilliantly, money talks and the b.s walks. we'll offer money and you 'll resettle. just like my parents did in israel, but without any money from the polish govt. this is the solution.
17. Salma Sorry for you
Orwell ,   Farmville   (03.17.10)
but I dont buy it, the world remembers when you said you were not pally you was Arab.
18. Salma #11, Don't Quit Your Day Job...And Mr Sherman...
Brana Lobel ,   Israel   (03.17.10)
it's an interesting plan, something like Benny Elon's, but who is going to implement it and what will their motivations be? I'm sure the UN is not interested in dismantling anything, so who will force them? As for the Arab countries, what do any of them have to gain by absorbing the Fakistinians? They lose a bargaining chip in their unending demonization of the Jews. Probably only some serious threat of harm/toppling their regimes would induce them to pony up.
19. The Palestinians
David Chester ,   Petach Tikva   (03.17.10)
Any other kind of solution to the problem of the formal establishment of Palestian citizenship within this land, particularly the occupied territories, will meet strong opposition from the Palestinians for the simple reason that they are claiming the Land to be theirs. Whilst the 2-state solution is not ideal, there is nothing better that Israel can offer and even that is very difficult to achieve by both sides. The attempt to change from this policy is foolish and will only lead to more confusion in the already Muddled East.
20. Tough love, Salma
Anna ,   Montreal, Canada   (03.17.10)
You are saying: “From a time that extends for over a 100 years and the pure Palestinian land is faced by fierce attacks and trials which sole goal is to erase its Palestinian identity, to divest Palestinians from their land, history, civilization and heritage. Because it lasted for over a 100 years and because half of the Palestinians live as refugees scattered all over the world away from the mother land it is our obligation to hold on and adhere to everything related to our holy land: our heritage, olive trees, customs and tradition, our blue coasts and redness of the land, to the purity of our water to all of that so as not to forget our seized lands and that we have the right to return.... Here are my questions to you. Please try to answer: Did you ever meet Druze, Samaritan, Armenian, and Bedouin, or any other nationality in the land of Palestine? How Jews of Palestine where called before 1948? Whom do you call Palestinians? The problem is that you, Arabs of Palestine, ignoring others. When Israelis were dying in Suicide attacks that Palestinian Arabs brought upon them you didn’t complain. Your relatives were murdering Jewish kids, and you were sitting and waiting for the next successful hit. And now you are facing the WALL. Jews are not immigrants to the Middle East. They are migrants. But the Arabs who live in Europe, Russia, Australia, South and North America are. Jews waited for their independence for couple thousands years. With your short recall of the Palestinian history of little bit more then 100 years Where did you come from, Salma?
21. To Mr. Smith
Anna ,   Montreal, Canada   (03.17.10)
You have to be Jewish in order to understand your neighbors and to be able to survive in this environment. There is nothing of racism and chauvinism in Mr. Sherman’s opinion but the bold truth. You wrote:” This is why Israel is on a one way path to pariah status and, if it doesn't really come up with ideas, self-destruction.” Upon your arrival to TA, Israel, Mr. Smith; Israelis built a State with many challenges and problems. But it is functional and flourishing. What should you say about Israeli neighbors? Did they have any achievements close to the technical, medical, cultural, humanitarian, etc of the Israelis? To be critical of Israeli policies is very easy. So, if you are truly friend of Israel, maybe it’s a time for you, Mr. Smith, to propose some fresh ideas to Israelis to their benefit?
22. The Big Lie
Pinchas ,   South Africa   (03.17.10)
"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it". - Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 - "There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not". - Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 - "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria". - Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -
23. Join the West Bank to Jordan and Gaza to Egypt.
naro ,   jerusalem   (03.17.10)
Makes sense, and these major countries can be trusted to keep control over the terrorists, and keep international treaties.
24. An Imperialism point of View
Palestinian ,   Jerusalem   (03.17.10)
Your naive thoughts prove that the zionist movement which is part of the Intrenational colonial movement is still the main source of the Israeli political thought, which depend on ignoring the other and stealing his land, culture, resources and even his life and dreams.
25. #1 - What do you suggest considering situation?
William ,   Israel   (03.17.10)
The "Pals" are more interested in destroying Israel than their own Statehood. Israel isn't going anywhere and is getting very impatient in dealing with endless terror. The "Pals" can't seem to stomach Israel existing next to them and their own corruption ends whatever progress they might try to make. To people like you - if Israel doesn't roll-over and die, it should be a pariah. If Israel does roll-over and die, then you celebrate it. I think you're the racist here. You ignore the actions of the "palestinians" themselves and by doing do, you treat them like second-class humans. Are you saying they are too stupid to make good decisions? Are they all mentally ill and need UN support until they die?? In order to receive self-determination one must agree to accept self-responsibility.
26. #11 - If Arab States have responsibility for their citizens
William ,   Israel   (03.17.10)
then they would have accept you illegal migrants back when they began their genocidal war against Israel in 1948. They should have granted you return to your place of origin and not illegally taken away your host country citizenship in order to use you as political fodder against the Jewish State. Take it up with them over this crime.
27. Might have to wait for oil to run out first
William ,   Israel   (03.17.10)
In order to persuade Arab countries to take back their illegal migrants of the 1930s, their economies will have to be heading down hill. Right now, they have tons of cash and oil. There is no incentive to receive new mouths to feed, especially if it helps keep their current citizens at bay by attacking Israel. No level of cash infusion will change that.
28. new paradigm?
alan ,   texas   (03.17.10)
Let the arabs "take risks for peace.' Let the Jews stand firmer. The arabs can all go to Jordan which is majarity palestinian arab any how.
29. This is the same kind of
Jezreel ,   USA   (03.17.10)
racist, xenophobic, white supremacist speech that American hate-mongers used to argue that African Americans should go "back to Africa" and to justify continued discrimination and racial apartheid.
30. Let's play around with the words shall we?
Said ,   Amman, Jordan   (03.17.10)
"Its high time that the world admits the failure of the Jews to create a normal state. A nation-state based on racist ethnocentric religious exclusivism that has brought nothing but misery and instability to an entire region for a century. The Arabs have vast oil wealth: its time they took heed of the Jewish humanitarian crisis and offered monetary compensation to emigrate to other countries. Let us not forget, that the sole purpose of the Jewish people's presence in Palestine is to erase the Arab identity of the land and deny any historical connection of Palestinians to their land. The land only became holy to them after the creation of a secular movement called Zionism. This is evident from the fact that the vast majority of Jews throughout history have preferred to settle outside of Palestine, and even when persecuted preferred other areas in the Middle East (such as Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen) to Palestine to settle. There has never been anyIts time to bring comprehensive peace to the Middle East by using a non-pc humanitarian solution." Now let's see how many hate-filled posts come my way. And if you're wondering if my baiting anyone, I'm not. I'm just presenting the same argument from the other side.
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