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Hundreds protest against West Bank security fence
Shmulik Grossman
Published: 19.03.10, 15:39
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23 Talkbacks for this article
1. NO peace until Israel enforces its laws!
William ,   Israel   (03.19.10)
What is the use of making a law or a threat if you're going to ignore it. I should be seeing an article today of the IDF beating the living crap out of non-residents and filling make-shift jails with these rowdies, then deporting them. Instead, just more "peaceful protests" by the weekly instigators. Can I apply for Commander General of the IDF? We need to clean house - in Bilin, Nilin, and our political structure.
2. WHY DON'T THE PALIS TEAR DOWN THE FENCE?
stude ham   (03.19.10)
they've got more than enough explosive material to do it with... the fence is not torn down because they believe protesting its existence is better pali prop for them... and guess what? ill-educated goofs actually sympathize with them over this thing.
3. all foreigners should be deported and barred from returning.
JO   (03.19.10)
If this was a true protest we would have no problem but it almost always generates into riots with the "protestors" throwing stones and acting provocatively. ISmrs are also there and other foreign radical groups , which encourage under age Palestinian teens to act violently on camera. Not a protest at all but a provocation to violence for PR sake.
4. stude ham, it is the well educated that do sympathise
Mikael ,   Gothenburg   (03.19.10)
with the Palestinians, as it was well educated westeners that sympathized with the stop slavery movement, get women the right to vote, to give black people civil rights, stop death penalty, anti Vietnam war people, free South Africa, give international justice legitimate power, work against brutalization in Israel and so on… I can’t find one lasting GOOD thing that the conservative mindset gave the people, can you?
5. Obama´s Intifada
Salomon Mizrahi ,   Sao Paulo, Brazil   (03.19.10)
"Protest" are certainly fuelled by CIA agents, to emaciate Natanyahu government and finally topple it. Obama, probably a devote muslim, hates Natanyahu, as much as Israeli Left. Having Livni as PM, Obama could impose his diktat. The great goal is to dismatle Israel as a Jewsih state
6. #4 Mikael, Answer to Your Question
Dallas ,   Canada   (03.19.10)
In answer to your question, the conservative mindset is the very reason that you are able to speak your mind. When you fully educate yourself in the issues here you will come to understand that the Pals exascerbate their own oppression with the assistance of their enablers in the West. It's not Israel's fault that after 62 years the Pals have not lifted a finger in creating even a failed state. The presence of the wall is not unlike the American border with Mexico - there is a reason that borders exist, did you know? A border with belligerents needs to be more than a line on the ground because bombing of buses and restaurants is unacceptable. Have you read any news since 1967? Have you studied the Pal culture of "resistence" - what they teach their children? You will learn eventually... or not.
7. would be NO NEED for a fence IF
Galut ,   selah   (03.19.10)
hamas afatah &hezbulah would agree to stop all terror attacks.... tthat is the only reason it is there !
8. Why not have Israeli civilians put down
jason white ,   afula,israel   (03.19.10)
the riots. Arm volunteers and let us stop these riots and hurt all demonstrators. The foreign ones should be jailed for aiding terrorism. All the arab villages near the riots should be raised and the land used for Jewish villages. Expel the arabs from the villages.The are illegally settling on Jewish land.
9. Mikael # 4
Eaglebeak ,   Left Coast, USA   (03.19.10)
It was Nixon that got us out of Vietnam. He was a conservative Republican. It was Abraham Lincoln that freed the slaves in America. He was a conservative Republican. The states that had slavery here were Democrat. The presidents that got us into Vietnam were Democrats. You can find good and bad on both sides of the fence if you only look.
10. Lots of hateful racists here
David ,   USA   (03.19.10)
You want to kill and main all the people of Nil'in, Bil'in, and others because they are protesting? Since when is protesting illegal? Unless of course you want to like Iran. Its nice to see Jews here advocating the tactics of despotic regimes in suppressing protests. Maybe the answer is to stop illegal settlements and stop stealing Palestinian lands using fences/walls under the guise of "security"...then maybe you won't have to deal with these protests.
11. 6 and 9# Do you believe this yourself,
Mikael ,   Gothenburg   (03.19.10)
that the conservatives did want the right for all to wrote. You must be very much in a problematic history rewriting! But you have the chance right now. Take a stance on Israel. Is it a peaceful, democratic state, working in concordance with justice (international), or is it a Hegelian state, not listening to reason? You can make a difference. Do it!
12.  stop using fences/walls under the guise of "security"...
galut ,   selah   (03.19.10)
ummm memory is short.... isn't it suicide bombers in coffee shops ...malls and several buses... with the promise of more... if that type of activity happened in your home town .and one of your loved ones was killed.....what would be your responce?????
13. #10 - Protests aren't illegal, violence is
William ,   Israel   (03.20.10)
Hey David, go throw some rocks at your next protest in the US and see what happens. My guess is you will end up with a lot of bruises and a free ticket to the local caged weekend resort. First off - foreigners are NOT given the right anywhere to show up and protest. Second - no one is allowed to enter a military zone. Third - the residents have full right to move about and protest if they wish, as long as it is NON-VIOLENT! Or haven't you noticed the major crackdowns on anarchists at the WTO conferences - exactly the same thing.
14. :: Thank you Turks for protesting Israel
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (03.19.10)
It is good for Turks to take a break once in a while. Otherwise Turks would be busy dismantling the Ataturk State, expelling Armenians and massacring Kurds.
15. Acute Intelectual deficiency syndrome-1
Ibrahim el-Awal ,   Dearborm, Michigan   (03.19.10)
A Festival of Hatred* Israel Bar-Nir With a lot of fanfare the Hate Fest dubbed “Israeli Apartheid Week” opened in campuses worldwide. For the last six years this vile event has become a fixture on the agenda of the self styled community of “Israel’s Critics”. Like previous years, this year’s event, Which took place from March 1, through March 13, 2010, featured endless diatribes condemning Israel delivered by a host of “enlightened” intellectuals and academics. Among the keynote speakers in the various happenings one could find many prominent Israeli names. It started on a low key - at the University of Toronto in Canada in 2005, where it was organized as a demonstration of solidarity with the people of Palestine and other oppressed nations. The idea found a receptive audience In the academia and it spread like a wild fire - from a single campus in 2005, through 3 campuses in 2006, to more than forty campuses, scattered over several continents this year. During the six years that these festivities were held, other oppressed nations have been waiting in vain for their turn to be mentioned in any of the happenings. The key motto of this recurring annual anti Israeli festival, is promotion of the BDS - short for Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions - against the State of Israel (other oppressed nations are still waiting to be included). The goal, as stated by the organizers, was to put an end to the colonization of Arab lands, and to enable the Palestinian Right of Return. No definition was given as to which Arab lands are being “colonized” nor of the Right of Return. The Toronto event of 2005 featured as its keynote speaker Ilan Pappe, a professor of Creative History at the Haifa University in Israel. For the benefit of the uninformed reader, Creative History is a research discipline whereby the researcher rewrites History according to his political agenda, regardless of the facts and/or what has really happened. The term Creative History was coined by yours truly; its definition, however, was given by Ilan Pappe himself in a lecture delivered to the general public in Palo Alto, California, about 10 years ago. The new discipline, a rotten fruit of post modernism, took roots and is now an integral part of the curriculum in many academic institutions, including top rated ones like Berkeley, Stanford and Harvard. It was only natural for the Israeli academia to follow suit. Ilan Pappe’s act did not remain alone for a long time. The fire ignited by him in 2005 was picked by the “best of the best” among Israel’s finest. Professors and doctors, academics and thinkers from all walks of life, writers, artists and god knows who else, all men of unblemished moral record, enlisted to carry the torch. To borrow from Winston Churchill - It Was Their Ugliest Hour. A prominent Israeli presence is nowadays a permanent fixture in each and all of these carnival like events. These Israeli academics - professors and doctors, thinkers, writers, artists and god knows who else, purport to occupy the moral high ground. In fact their acts reflect sheer malice, and there’s no morality whatsoever in what they say or do.
16. Acute intellectual deficiency syndrome-2
Ibrahim el-Awal ,   Dearborn, Michigan   (03.19.10)
Two notable figures taking part in this year’s festival were Prof. Anat Matar and Prof. Adi Ophir from Tel Aviv University. The two were booked to appear in the UK, where they were to lead the call to boycott Israel, though their contract may have extended to include other venues as well. Additional Israeli academics assumed similar roles in other campuses. This academic trend, which can be best defined as an Israeli Academics Against Israel movement, has gained momentum and had some accomplishments, sometimes where least expected. Best known is the story of Prof. Oren Yiftach’el from Ben Gurion University. Being one of the most vociferous among those calling to boycott Israel, the eminent professor was in for an unpleasant surprise. Unbeknownst to him, most editors of scientific journals in the world lack the intellectual wherewithal required to make the distinction between a “good” Israeli and a “bad” one. For them an Israeli is an Israeli. Period. Thus, the poor professor had to face the embarrassment of having a paper of his rejected by the major journal in his field. Rather than understand that the editors of that journal were acting in good faith, in fact heeding his call, he took it very hard and pleaded with the editors to bend the rules for him. To the best of my knowledge, the editors refused to reconsider their decision. This year a new term was added to the vocabulary used by the Israeli “critics”. It has been enriched by a new slur. From an “apartheid” state Israel has been upgraded (downgraded?) to become an “ethnocracy” - a state which favorably discriminates one ethnic group. It is not clear why this term qualifies as a slur, since it is hard to find one state among the world’s nations that is not an ethnocracy, in particular among all the Muslim and/or Arab states. Who can fathom what goes on in the mind of the obsessive Israel critic? Israel, after all, was established by the Jewish people for the Jewish people. Thus, it is an ehnocracy by definition. How can anyone see anything wrong with that? George Orwell defined an anti-Semite as Someone Who Hates Jews More than Is Absolutely Necessary. In a similar fashion, the excessive preoccupation with Israel criticism/condemnation/denunciation is the hallmark of the modern era anti-Semite. Israelis are not excluded.
17. Mikael # 11
Eaglebeak ,   Left Coast, USA   (03.19.10)
Dallas # 6 is correct. I have taken a stance, I'm all for Israel.
18. #11 -doesn't Intl law forbid targeting civilians?
William ,   Israel   (03.20.10)
Yet, you've been pretty quiet every time an Arab terrorist blows themselves up in a bus or cafe, or targets a playground with a rocket. If the other side makes a habit out of violating intl law and committing war crimes, it sort of changes the dynamics of the situation - one that Intl laws and conventions weren't written to handle effectively. Considering this, Israel has handled the situation very well, according to experts like Col. Kemper of NATO who testified in favor of Israel at the UN.
19. Mikael #4 & Dallas #6
warren ,   new york   (03.20.10)
Dallas #6 has proven his knowledge, and Mikael has proven his ignorance. A fool is confirmed when they talk too much, and Mikael has certainly done this in his writing. Mikael would be advised to study history before lecturing others about it. Unfortunately, people like him have influence around the world, hence it is in the sorry shape it is today.
20. They are getting desperate ... security fence stops murders
EST ,   Miami USA   (03.20.10)
What they are protesting is not the fence but the fact that the security fence really works and they are very angry their suicide bombers cannot come into Israel as they used to. Eaglebeak, I stand behind you... and Israel! always!
21. Ibrahim el-Awal
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (03.20.10)
It appears that you are named after the Egyptian frigate captured by Israel just after the War of Independence. And a powerful ship she must have been if there is any relationship between you and her. Your two posts, more like essays, were exceedingly illuminating and quite fresh. Perhaps you could offer to write an actual article for Ynet as your scholarship appears to be comprehensive and your writing style explosive. I just wanted to raise the question about "Creative History". Is it actually a discipline or rather just a perjorative term and a fancy way of saying, "This is fiction posing as factual history?" Incidentally, you may not be familiar with the following website: isracampus.org.il It is a treasure chest full of articles by, and about, Israeli professors who make it their passion to bash the State of Israel as part of a career choice.
22. Mikael from Gothenberg
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (03.20.10)
I just wanted to point out that since you say that the educated were all in the forefront of all the progressive and positive changes occurring in the West, you might wish to study and cite the number of very educated people in the forefront of the Russian Revolution and in the making of Nazi Germany. I don't wish to deprive you of the effort of discovering this on your own but, to give you a head start, I will reference Robert Jay Lifton's exceedingly painful book entitled "The Nazi Doctors". As the name indicates, there were many many doctors who assisted the Nazi movement in the most cruel of ways. For your information, there were also lawyers, engineers and university professors, all highly educated people. So much for the notion of "liberal and higher education education equals positive outcomes in societies." George Steiner, social critic, wrote a brilliant essay on that subject. I hope you take this post seriously and complete the research.
23. Robert, #22 seriously, because no one is listening now,
Mikael ,   Gothenburg   (03.21.10)
you have made a point of the very worst of intellectual fallacies and outright deception; I never said that ALL well educated people….. I said that the well educated people do the thing, to change history. I can mention hundreds of people that are educated and serve another agenda that will not prove me wrong. What is your agenda?
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