Opinion
Likud’s ideological collapse
Hagai Segal
Published: 26.03.10, 14:05
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1. Sad but this articles reflection is very true
Norman   (03.26.10)
There must be an alternative to Bibi. Although a good man but a very weak character and is played like a Yoyo by obama.
2. hagai segal
alexi   (03.26.10)
Likud is under pressure from obama but bibi and lieberman held and fought, something kadima never did. Olmert, livni and ramon offered every concession, bowed before rice and humiliated israel's national being. You follow them hagai, you are a weak pathetic jew, ready to kiss rear ends so you don't incurr the wrath of the US. Look now how iran attacks israel for east jerusalem taking a cue from obama. Hee has harmed israel and since the US cannot directly protext israel, he was wrong to do it. Obama is fulfilling his pledge to kalidi and to his moslem allegiance which he is hiding from the public.
3. NEXT YEAR, A PALESTINIAN FLAG OVER JERUSALEM!
Ori   (03.26.10)
If the concessions continue along the present pace-- if the Israeli government proves as incapable of resisting concessions during the phase of ACTUAL TALKS as it has proven incapable of resisting concessions during the talks convened for the purpose of convening talks ("talks for talks")-- then I'm afraid there won't be anything to vote upon anyway by the time the next elections come. I'm afraid that the ultimatum issued in effect by Salam Fayad-- a unilateral declaration of statehood by 2011-- will be preempted by near complete acquiescence to his terms by the same date. In other words, I'm afraid that, in a matter of months, the flag of PALESTINE WILL FLY OVER JERUSALEM. And the Golan will follow suit eventually as well, if there is truth to the gleeful Palestinian reports that Obama has extracted a promise from Netanyahu to enter into negotiations on that track as well. To all those who have hoped and prayed that this day would not come, and that Israel would somehow successfully manage to reverse the diplomatic ground that it has lost over the past 20 years and enshrine a new consensus-- I fear we are on the brink of doom.
4. Hagai for Knesset!
jeremy   (03.26.10)
Did you even try an attempt to be objective here? Sounded more like you are hoping that Livni and Kadima will put you on their slate next elections. Livni not make concessions?? Are you on some kind of drug? She is ready to concede everything, Jerusalem, east and west, the old city, teh entire west bank, the golan and her father's legacy, for what??? Her own ego?? And you support this? How much is she paying you??
5. The deafening silence in Israel
Marcella   (03.26.10)
Mr Segal, you're so right about Netanyahu and the Likud. Netanyahu fatally miscalculated his moves at the beginning of his term. Had he allied himself ideologically and politically with the right wing, he would have had solid support among the population, and the United States would have never dared to push this far. The PM still has a very tiny window of opportunity to extricate himself from a path that leads to his own personal political failure and opprobrium by present and future generations. Will he return to strong Zionist principles? If he does not do so he'll be abandoned by his remaining supporters the same way he abandoned them as soon as he took office. But of course the greatest loss will be Israel's. The world climate of hatred against Israel and ALL Jews - including those who have allied themselves with the Palestinians - will not change even if Israel were to return to the 1949 borders. And it will not change even if Israel is completely dismantled. We're living in the prelude to a second Holocaust, or at least a time of bloody persecution of Jews everywhere. Jews are already threatened on the streets of Europe, US campuses, and many other places that only a generation ago we considered safe. If the left and the anti-Semites manage to destroy Israel, the Jews of the world are next. WHAT IS MOST STARTLING at this particular moment is the silence with which the Likud and the Israeli population in general have reacted to the insulting and humiliating treatment of Israel throughout the Obama administration. The US government has shamelessly micromanaged the internal affairs of a close "ally", and dictated its borders and final outcome of the so-called Peace Negotiations - that are neither geared to peace nor to negotiate anything, since Israel is given no choice in the matter.. People who ordinarily come out in droves to protest issues such as higher wages, benefits, women rights, gay rights, migrant rights, and so on, are eerily silent at how their country has been so utterly humiliated by a foreign power. And they are still silent about the fact that the same foreign power is demanding the partition of their country and their ancient capital. Even those opposing Netanyahu should realize that the treatment he receives at the hands of Obama, Clinton, Biden, etc., reflects US government contempt and disrespect for ALL the people of Israel. And with Israel being our spiritual home, it disrespects all Jews, wherever we happen to live.
6. Does it matter...
kate ,   atlanta USA   (03.26.10)
when Iran has the bomb? Obama has given Iran another year.
7. Take note...
Ori   (03.26.10)
I would add to the author's verdict on Netanyahu's speech that the statement containing the words "Jerusalem is not a settlement" was one of Netanyahu's stronger ones. The prime minister made special note of telling the assembled crowd that the NEIGHBORHOODS of East Jerusalem in which the construction was taking place would always remain part of Israel-- pointedly electing not to declare that East Jerusalem in its whole would always remain part of Israel. Of course, this is completely consistent with the Olmert plan, and even Abbas' counteroffer, as anyone familiar with the details well knows. The fact that Obama chose to become emphatically more pro-Palestinian than the chairman of the PLO is extremely telling-- the fact that Netanyahu essentially reverted to the chairman's position only more foreboding.
8. Don't Worry - When Feiglin is Likud leader things'll change
Tomer ,   Herzeliyya   (03.26.10)
9. Sympathy
eh-oop ,   UK   (03.26.10)
Agree with the criticism of the remark but it's also crystal-clear that Bibi is very tired, and that tiredness isn't only due to Obama's continual shifting of the goal-posts - some might call it deception - but because of the unnecessary fire-fighting forced on Bibi by his coalition partners. More discipline, fewer surprises, and Bibi will be a more effective and visible leader. His strategic vision is clear - two states, sustainability on thje back of Palestinian economic development and a cessation of incitement and hostilities from the Palestinian side. You Israelis owe the Palestinians nothing, but you'll give them something in exchange for a peace in which one can have confidence - peace for peace. Just make sure that you are working, and are seen to be working, on the basis of a timetable which you control, not Obama's need to prove to the Arab league what a good boy he is.
10. Right? What Right?
fred ,   jerusalem   (03.26.10)
When will you people "get" it? The right has not yet made a commitment to lead. A coalition of Likud and the Right is a catastrophe as long as the Likud has no one to really lead it. For the time being Bibi happens to be the best of all evils, certainly better than Livni and Barak! A right wing coalition will just mean that the liberal secular people in power (the media, supreme ct., police, and army) will all tear the Likud leader to pieces and the coalition will not last a year. The religious, conservative and faithful element of our country (and they are the majority) just needs to grasp one simple fact. As long as they do not play as a part of mainstream Israeli politics (Likud), they are basically out of the game entirely. They will be looked at by those in power as the fanatics, the dangerous, the militant, and the minority! Until that time, as a nation, all we can hope is that the Likud keeps getting re-elected time after time, becuase the other possibilities will be certain disaster for our country and people, and they will not even supply us with life-jackets when we get pushed into the sea. (no budget for people like us - we should have taken better swimming lessons). Has the Likud been a bitter disappointment?? Absolutely. But they are not the ones to blame. Those who really love and care about our country and it's long term survival, have refused to enter the game, and so we are stuck with the mediocre likes of Netanyahu, Sylvan, Sharon, Olmert etc. Other than Faigeln, a loser who just says the right things (another Menachum Begin, who at best will sell us out as soon as they give him a dirty look or a little arm twist), no one who should be playing the game, is on the field. We have some real special people in our land, but they are all choosing to wait and let some one else stand up at the plate. It's very sad.
11. #9 eh oop - You have just described the Kadima agenda
Jake ,   Toronto   (03.26.10)
Bibi was not forced into office. He ran and he did it quite ruthlessly, with the way he treated Feiglin. Remember that from day one he was already looking for a coalition with the leftist Kadima. He never intended to fulfill the promises he made to the majority of voters. Voters did not want the Kadima agenda. What has happened since is nothing short of fraud.
12. Statement was made to Obama
Yank ,   USA   (03.26.10)
in USA for all to hear. it was a strong rebuttal under the extreme pressure Obama is hurtling at Israel. It sent a clear message. I can only hope Israel -Bibi- will stand firm and not give in to Obama who has been punching at Bibi before Bibi even took office without let up. The situation is dire and explains why Abbas has been sitting out refusing to come to peace table knowing Obama would do the work and negotiate for him. Israel must remain united and strong against Obama and the world.
13. NOTHING NEW. It's been like that for a long time
Sergio   (03.26.10)
14. Restore Likud to it's true values and save Israel.
Chaim ,   Israel   (03.26.10)
Segal is 100% correct. Bibi is abandoning everything Likud stands for and everything Israel voted for. Likud was founded, by the late great Zev Jabotinsky, to be a vehemently right wing patriotic party. Not to impose settlement freezes on Judea and Samaria. Not to have trouble defending our right to Jerusalem. Not to inflict a deadly new terror state on Israel. Likud is Israel's natural governing party and we MUST return Likud to it's true values. That is all that is necessary to save Israel.
15. So the problem is not enough illegal settlements?
Nicole ,   Turtle Island, USA   (03.26.10)
Amazing. No wonder there has been no progress toward peace and justice in the American taxpayer's biggest foreign liability. The very idea of even slowing down the ongoing land theft, much less restoring human rights to people born on those lands, is considered unthinkable.
16. Binyamin stood for Jerusalem... thats the difference.
Lemmings Hotline ,   sd usa   (03.26.10)
It seems your article is ill tiimed, because it came at a time that Israel came under pressure from the US President to split its capital Kadima would have said "Nu, Kadima(come on), lets give it all away." This govt showed real leadership. Just not the one you want.
17. How did he insult Jerusalem.
Brad ,   USA   (03.26.10)
He told the truth. Jerusalem is Israel's capitol, and not a part of it is a settlement. Any assertion otherwise, is from someone in favor of dividing Israel's land, and giving some of it to her enemies. There are way too many Sanballats in Israel. They will lose.
18. Country of religious fanatics
michael ,   sao paulo   (03.27.10)
Sadly, Israel is becoming a country of religious fanatics
19. #15 - Nicole you're an idiot....
Andy ,   ramat hasharon   (03.27.10)
Land theft, huh? This from somebody living in a country of entirely stolen land. There is no land theft in apartments in a Jewish neighborhood in our capital city.
20. ideology and force
lma ,   jerusalem   (03.27.10)
if this article is about ideology i see ..that force can not change the ideology whie the ideology can change the force ... i think this storm on jerusalem in israil is about the force to change the ideology becouse of that there they prefered wasshintgon over jerusalem here ih knesset thay will prefer chairs in knesset over jerusalem becouse of that they were silent
21. Your kidding right?
JIM ,   Newberg, USA   (03.27.10)
In America we have a name for journalists like this guy, but suffice it to say this guy believes like every other liberal I've come across which is to say they think if they say something long enough and loud enough no matter how big a lie it is...people will begin to believe it. You wouldn't happen to be working for Obama would you?
22. call immediate elections
Max   (03.27.10)
goodbye booboo you lied your way through the whole campaign, peed your pants when dyed blonde Hitlery called your bluff and now you need to go.
23. today's predicament has been a long time in coming
steve ,   boston, usa   (03.27.10)
Netanyahu and all politicians who hope to wield power have to reflect roughly the center-point of their electorate or they would not achieve their ambition. The Israeli people long ago chose an affluent western life style over their longterm security. I am in no position to critically judge them from America. But it is a choice with consequences. These consequences are becoming clearer now.
24. Is the Right right?
Norman Gellman ,   Rehovot   (03.28.10)
The right wing is traditionally against all compromise and is not above using bullying tactics to get its way. The policy of the right historically, not only in Israel, has led to war not peace. Peace requires compromise. Unfortunately the other side also is unable to compromise, so peace is still only a dream.
25. #24 Israel retreat only brings war. The right IS correct!
Chaim ,   Israel   (03.28.10)
#24 Norman. You claim peace comes through compromise. However, this is often untrue. Thank heavens the WW II allies didn't believe that compromising with Nazis would bring peace. They knew only resounding victory could bring peace. The same is true with Israel. Every single Israel retreat has been a total disaster. Israel's last two wars are 200% products of Israeli retreat. Had we stayed in South Lebanon, we wouldn't have had to fight our last Lebanon War. Had we stayed in Gaza, we wouldn't have had to fight our last Gaza War. Israeli retreat only brings war. The right IS correct and should demand total victory over "Palestinians" with no concessions whatsoever.
26. Bibi hijacking Likud via Meretz-owned Supreme Co
Moe ,   SF USA   (03.28.10)
He postponed- against Likud Law- the central committee election for chairman of the part from february 2010, to april 2010, and now to winter 2011! The regional courts said this was not legal, so he brought it to the Meretz gang-, the Supreme Court. Feiglin was about to leapfrog bibi. But the scheister keeps scheisting and no one stops him. Bibi=Rabin in setting super dangerous agendas via undemocratic unilateral measures?
27. #26 Moe - Well said
Jake ,   Toronto   (03.28.10)
The fact is that demographics are against the left. Only through dirty tricks is the left clinging to power in Israel. The question is whether the Jews will wake up in time (right now!) to fight back, or will they once again walk away from it as they did from Sinai and Gaza, and next Golan, Judea, Samaria, Jerusalem....
28. to 25
maha ,   jerusalem   (03.29.10)
if jews were still in europ and rasia and ethiopia and morroco and yemen and egypt it would be no israili palastinian conflict ... it is not a joke but it is about the selly ..if..
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