Jewish Scene
Rabbis: 'Kitniyot rebellion' continues
Ynetnews
Published: 31.03.10, 15:01
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
78 Talkbacks for this article
31. Rabbi David Bar Hayim's Approach Is Amazing
8urt ,   moshav orah   (04.01.10)
Rabbi David Bar Hayim's halachic approach is what I've been waiting for for a long time. We need to return to an emphasis on truth and the primacy of the Talmud Yerushalmi.
32. the kitniyot custom is not ancient
nachum ,   bnei brak   (04.01.10)
if it were ancient that means it would have been around during the time of the talmud and it was not. i hope more rabbis will be inspired by rabbi david bar hayim.
33. Slowly slowly they succumb to temptation
secular ,   israel   (04.01.10)
And it's that very temptation that makes them riot and get all bent out of shape and lash out at us seculars. They'd love to be like us, but they are brainwashed and scared. They seem to lack any form of self restraint - in all areas!
34. The ruling against kitniyot in Passover is silly & stupid
Tahl ,   Ashdod   (04.01.10)
As I have recently learned, the ruling that kitniyot were not kosher for Passover stemmed from the fact that centuries ago, in Europe, the bags used to carry the beans and pulses by the farmers, were suspected to have had an earlier use of carrying grains of wheat. Clearly this is not the case now, and most certainly not in Israel. The entire manufacturing process of beans and pulses, from the reaping, the processing, and putting them on the supermarket shelves, has absolutely no relation to anything which is hametz - and the "kosher for Passover" label confirms it. Tradition sometimes could be unbelievably stupid. Just because a practice was relevant in a completely different place, in a completely different time, doesn't mean we should continue to follow it blindly like dumb sheep, no matter how respected the Rabbi who orders to do so. They adhere to these ridiculous practices basically because they're too afraid to change things, and because they want to control you. But for God's sake people, why do you need these bearded ayatollahs to make all your decisions and reasoning? Why don't you start thinking for yourselves?
35. I agree with Rashi, #28
Richie Richard ,   Sun City   (04.01.10)
The intelligent comment of the commentator Rashi is correct. Rabbi Bar-Hayim is a brilliant Rabbi with a large following that is growing by the day. Every single word out of his mouth is based purely on the Torah truths passed down through the generations.
36. 'Rabbi' Bar Haim
Eli Been ,   UK   (04.01.10)
Shira has committed a far worse sin by calling Rabbi Bar Haim a fraud. Whereas there is not even a hint of a sin in eating kitniot, after all millions of Sephardim and thinking Ashenazim enjoy kitniot. The Choshen was to atone for mistakes in halacha by the Sanhedrin - they too where only human and like Moshe Rabbenu, can make mistakes.
37. Everyone else can make mistakes
observer   (04.01.10)
except this jerk? Come on, this is a joke. Even he must be laughing.
38. making aliiyah inspired by rabbi david bar hayim
ephraim ,   boca raton   (04.01.10)
after hearing rabbi david bar hayim's audio shiurim i was inspired to follow his approach which has led me to make aliyah. Needless to say I greatly admire the rabbi's psak halacha on kitniyot.
39. Kitniyot
jeremy ,   jerusalem   (04.01.10)
This is not about Rabbi Bar Hayim and his smicha. It's about following the truth of the Torah and not adding or subtracting from it. Many Rabbis before Bar Hayim have advocated eating kitniyot. But it is only of late, living in Israel, where many couples are mixed ashkenaz/sefard that people have opened their eyes to a custom that is so outdated and wrong, and people are following the truth and doing the right thing. There are still plenty of other issues that are on the same level. Only people searching for the truth will make the changes. And yes, the streimals and all black costumes will one day go as well. These people are trying to hold onto the galut of Poland and Europe as though it were something kadosh (holy). How sinful!!
40. wonderful followers
isaac ,   tel aviv   (04.01.10)
i met some followers of rav david bar hayim in jerusalem. they are great people with a great rabbi.
41. Is the Talmud the underpinnings of Judaism, or is it not?
Velvel ,   Jerusalem   (04.01.10)
The ban on kitniyoth originated due ot a mistaken understanding of *certain French rabbis who thought that kinityoth were a minor form of hametz. Other French and Ashkenaz rabbis disagreed strongly with the practice, but it spread throughout France and likely when the Jews of France were expelled from France and ended up in Germany, that is how it spread in Ashkenaz as well. Soon it was spread to much of Europe, but always certain great rabbis were against it. And for obvious reasons. This ban goes against the ruling of the Talmud. Everything in Judaism, every halacha, every practice, every understanding, must fit in some way with our Oral Torah, which is expressed in the written Talmud. No one ever argued about what the gemara (talmudic discussion) concluded with regards to rice. It certainly permits rice on Pesah. That is a unanimous halacha from the Talmud. The "conservative movement" Jews and the Reform Jews (in america and other countries) are the ones who discard the Talmud and all its rulings and who change Judaism into something else by going against the rulings of our sages in the Talmud. Orthodox Judaism adheres to the Talmudic rulings and halachot. So we have a simple choice. Are we going to do what is forbidden- by forbidding something our Oral Torah permits? Are we going to let Orthodox Judaism spiral into another breakaway sect? Or are we going to stick to what chazal (the sages) have told us and instructed us regarding the Jewish laws? The Talmudic position is that rice is permitted. Furthermore, Jews never abstained from eating kitniyoth on Pesah in Eretz Yisrael in all the generations and centuries that Jews lived here. It is a foreign practice (as the article stresses) not to mention the fact that it is clearly a mistaken practice.
42. Simple question: Do we follow Talmud?
Zeev ,   Jerusalem   (04.01.10)
Simple question: Do we follow the Talmud and its rulings by the ancient sages of blessed memory? Or do we follow what we want because it's strict and strict is cool and strict translates to pious? Clearly Judaism follows the Talmud. It is well known that someone who wants to be more strict than the ruling of the Talmud is actually an apikorus (a nonbeliever). It is comical to me because those people who are attacking Rabbi Bar Hayim clearly have never seen the sources in question and are completely ignorant on the issue. This issue is not about Rabbi Bar Hayim (although his healthy approach to Judaism brings this issue to our attention). This issue is about what our sources say, what the great rabbis have said, and what these sources indicate to us about this particular practice. Anyone who examines it with an open mind can easily see that this mistaken custom is a relic of the darkness of exile and must die along with the exile. Rashi permitted and ate kitniyoth. Because he understood the Talmud and he understood that we are not more stringent than our Talmudic sages who elucidated the laws for us.
43. Rabbi David Bar Hayim Is Right
dan ,   rehovoth   (04.01.10)
The rabbi is the voice of truth in our generation
44. just had matzah with humus and matbocha
raymond ,   givat zeev   (04.01.10)
thank you rav david bar hayim
45. the local Kosher L'Pessach Sushi Place....
Sally Forth ,   Jerusalem   (04.01.10)
has a Kosher L'Pessach permit allowing the eating of Kitniyot in the restaurant and certifying that they are Kosher L'Pessach and the certificate is signed by the chief Rabbi of Israel Yona Metzger. Interesting yes, the Chief Rabbi is Ashkenazi and yet he can sign off on the Kashrut Certificate for an establishment selling kitniyot. What make you of this oh great zealots of the TB type?
46. Ashkenazim ALWAYS Made Things Difficult!!!
EZ ,   Los Angeles USA   (04.01.10)
The posts here are humorous, to the absolute extreme. Chametz is flour, not kitniyot, end of story. The Ashkenazim have the most ludicrous ideas about halachah that have bastardized, repealed, destroyed and raped the Torah and its true meaning. The most religious people I've ever met eat Kitniyot: its a simple issue that we all love to avoid with all of our heart: the Ashkenazim are completely prejudice against the Sepharidim and will NEVER admit a wrong-doing, a mistake or agree to change if it involves the practice and halachah of the Sephardim, whose practices pre-date the Ashkenazim by many, many centuries. I got so tired of the prejudice against goyim, black people and sephardim that the Ashkenazim so openly show, that I dove wholeheartedly into the fold of the sephardim to shelter my nashama from the dregs of the ashkenazic lunacy. Got a little tired of reading about their child/sex abuse scandles, money scandles, whore-house scandles, hypocrisy and blatant sexism to mention a few. Kitniyot is fine. If you want to hang back with the apes, be my guest. But its a pitiful and foolish ruling NOT to eat kitniyot during Pesach. Completely PITIFUL!
47. Kitniyot Rebellion...
Bruria   (04.01.10)
We are missing the point here. Is it not up to each person to find a rav (or not) and follow the minhag (or not)? Those who wish to be strict will be strict , those who are more lenient or non-observant will do as they will (a bit of Hillel & Shamai). I feel very strongly that Jews should allow each other to be themselves. My neighbors are holiday observant, but when they do say kiddush it is with great feeling. I am more observant, yet they invite me for kiddush or candle lighting on Channukah--and I happily accept the chance to be in the company of joyful young people. Wake up people! Surely we have enough enemies in this world without fighting amongst ourselves! Agree to disagree and learn to appreciate your neighbor! Pesach Sameyach to all!
48. the kitniyot ban is for the rhineland
nes ,   jerusalem   (04.01.10)
here in israel we follow the torah without nonsense
49. nusach eretz yisrael
joel ,   miami   (04.01.10)
rav david bar hayim has so much beautiful torah to offer including his promoting use of the nusach tefillah of the talmud yerushalmi, nusach eretz yisrael both for tefillah and a birlon
50. this is clear
david ,   tel aviv   (04.01.10)
i wish i could meet rabbi david bar hayim so i can shake his hand. i hope to har more of the rabbi's torah
51. Where can i find out more about rabbi david bar hayim
Will ,   modiin   (04.01.10)
i am fascinated by his vision and scholarship. i now will eat kitniyot
52. To all the nay-sayers, let me ask you this...
TF ,   Settlments, Israel   (04.01.10)
When coming home to Israel, we do as they do here, as the minhag, customs are here. That is why people who make aliyah drop the two days of yom tov. So... Why is it ok to give up two days of yom-tov or a second seder, because they made aliyah here, but it is not ok to give up the strict european approach to kitniyot?
53. Hmmmm....
Zvi ,   Ramat Gan, Israel   (04.01.10)
These talkbacks sound more like hating on Ashkenazi Minhagim than actually commenting on the Halachik implications that eating Kitniyot actually has on the Halachot of Pesach in the modern world. Would our lives be easier without a ban on kitniyot? Yes. However, to those who just want to hate on Minhag, I highly suggest you learn the sources and understand them well. Also, keep in mind that we are supposed to follow the Minhagim of our forefathers, even if there might not be a reason to follow them anymore. In addition, keep in mind that those who eat kitniyot on Pesach are required to adopt the whole package of Sefardi Minhagim as well - in front of a Beit Din (and it can only be undone by a Beit Din as well, so you can't pick and choose) - which means a huge change in halachik practice. Finally, it's not so clear that an Ashkenazi can just accept the ruling of a Sefardi Rav just because he wants to. So, with all due respect to Rabbi Bar- Haim, it's not so clear that his heter applies to Ashkenazim. If Ashkenazim want to drop this Minhag, they either need to speak to their local orthodox rabbi who is their posek lhalacha, or adopt all Sefardi Minhagim and Halacha.
54. birkon nusach eretz yisrael an siddur nusach eretz yisrael
golan ,   beer sheva   (04.01.10)
i would love to get the siddur and birkon where?
55. the rabbi is a profound thinker
tirschwell ,   new york   (04.01.10)
rabbi david bar hayim is a breath of fresh air. may we follow him and go from galuth mode to geulah mode.
56. pesach
eli ,   heartland israel   (04.01.10)
even the hag of pesach needs to be redeemed! kol hakavod......
57. #53
(04.01.10)
i don't know why you are automaticlly associating the kitniot custom with sefardi when in fact it used to also be a ashkanaz one just because once upon a time some rabbi made a ban on something which was relevent to that time period doesnt mean that all time periods prepare and cook the food in the same way when growing and harvasting and produce advance past the point of not having to worry is it or is it not permissible the ban should be lifted and in todays day the ban should be lifted the problem is the rabbis in todays day don't have the guts to do anything especially rescind a ban thats not relevant to todays day.
58. #46
(04.01.10)
the sefardim have there own picnic basket which is filled with many another set of problems so don't pick one sect and say oh there terrible because theres plenty to write about the sefardim. And if you want the purist form of judiasms that would be that of the yeminite jews.
59. rav bar hayim is not sefardic
chaim ,   beth shemesh   (04.01.10)
the rav is calling for a return to being eretz yisraeli not sefardi
60. siddur or birkon nusach eretz yisrael
reuven ,   jerusalem   (04.01.10)
i go to minyan nusach eretz yisrael in jerusalem on a regular basis. i believe that the siddur and birkon can be obtained from machon shilo.
Previous talkbacks
Next talkbacks
Back to article