Jewish Scene
Post-Pesach warning: Don't buy chametz from seculars
Kobi Nahsoni
Published: 07.04.10, 07:29
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34 Talkbacks for this article
1. Dear Rabbi
Martin Lonky ,   NZ   (04.07.10)
I am about to switch to non kosher meat and poultry from the supermarket. You see Rabbi I grew up in a religous home and even when we were short of kosher supplies we ate either fish or vegetarian. Now there is plenty, there are actually enormous amounts of meat and chickens in both New Zealand and Australia. It sells at the supermarket for NZ $20 /kg for fresh scotch fillets and prime cuts and chicken at NZ $10 whole fresh clean and bleached chicken. But mean and greedy as you guys are, you have no shame of extorting $ 80-90 dollars for a kilogram of frozen meat and $40-45 per chicken which requires an hour of cleaning and removing disgusting hair and feathers. Why and why I am asking you? Why do you have to steal so much money for something that should be a mitzvah to allow Jews fulfil their obligations. I lost all respect for you Rabbis. I now see you as the lowest creatures of nature.
2. Yes yes but i have a question
Avi ,   Israel   (04.07.10)
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. What's this? "Rabbi Elyashiv's ruling"
Talula ,   Israel   (04.07.10)
Why is this man busy making up new rulings when there's a book full of them already? Jews have survived for thousands of years with the rules we have, so why make up new ones? I think this backward Idiot just wants a bit of notoriety. He's power crazy. He really thinks he's god. He can stick his new ruling where the sun doesn't shine!
4. Remember Rabbi Akiva's students
Rabbi Y Ashkenazi ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (04.07.10)
This ruling is the root cause of the same events we mourn from Pesach to Lag BOmer and why the second temple was destroyed - Sinat Chinam and not sharing with the other but condemning him. Shame on this phoney rabbi
5. Ruling
Albi ,   Ashkelon   (04.07.10)
Don't you see? It's all about money. It always is., yes, and old fashioned religious intolerance and hate.
6. who decides what the citizens should buy?
louis ,   israel   (04.07.10)
These people whose only mean in religion is to follow rules invented by them and not the real meaning of living a "kosher life" (being a good human being) are bringing by the desctruction of this country. Why should any relgious instance decide what my choice is to put on my table or buy at the supermarket, who are they??? why is their ruling better than mine? they definitely do not live as is written in the Torah, look at their dress code which comes from Europe 18th century ... where does that fit in with the Mitzvot?
7. So don't buy from any of the supermarkets?
Eric ,   Tel Aviv   (04.07.10)
Let's get real, what he has announced is that you can not buy bread, cookies, crackers, etc. from Supermarkets that had them hidden behind paper for Passover. As most bakeries did not start to work until the night Passover ended he is telling most people not to buy bread for several extra days. How these Rabbis love to make their followers lives harder.
8. #2
Alon ,   Jerusalem   (04.07.10)
you always write here that the bible is old and outdated but you yourself quote from there - you are a hypicrit and use it when it is suiting you
9. Shemot 21.7 DOESN'T Condone SLAVERY!
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (04.07.10)
The English translation, which is NOT Scripture (only the original language--Hebrew, and in parts Aramaic--is Scripture), "bondswoman" ("maidservant" in KJ/V) is misleading and unfortunate. The context, 21.8-10, demonstrates that [1] the Hebrew term is אָמָה (am•ah′; designated future-wife) and [2] that this term refers to a young girl contracted by a father from the lower income class to marry into the family of someone from the wealthier class. No word for "female slave" even exists in Hebrew!!! Captured women could be forcibly made one's wife. Underage daughters could be contracted among peers as a future bride. Or lower income fathers could contract his underage daughter with someone of a higher income class as a "designated future bride": designated either to become the bride of the principal of the contract himself or one of his sons. In all cases, however, these women became Israeli wives--they were your "Jewish mothers," NOT slaves! Think: why would a wealthy man consider marrying, or marrying one of his sons to, a poor girl? Obviously, like today, a poor girl can show great potential for learning, wisdom--and beauty. No rational wealthy man would consider paying money to contract marriage to an empty-headed ugly girl just because the father was in debt to someone else. Further, no rational wealthy man would consider marriage, for himself or his son, to a brutish woman--no matter how beautiful--who would cause nothing but embarrassing incidents in his influential circles. A girl with potential would have to receive proper education in social etiquette, etc. from a young age. This was a provision for a father to provide his bright and attractive young daughter the opportunity for a better life for herself and her children. And, of course, the opportunity for misojudaic goyim to pervert it into charges of slavery. Not even the other Hebrew term, עֶבֶד (ev′ed) legitimately means "slavery"! We would understand ev′ed today as an employee under contract, which--only at the behest of the employee--could be extended to a lifetime contract (like the Japanese aspired to until the last couple of decades). David ha-Melekh, envisioning the Mashiakh, is the ev′ed of ha-Sheim, as is all of Yisraeil, including unconverted non-Jewish reverers of Torah. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer (& Orthodox Jew) Advocate for Logic as Hermeneutic Halakhic Authority Welcoming All Torah-reverers (Jews & non-Jews)
10. #2: Shemot 21.7 DOESN'T Condone SLAVERY! (2nd try)
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (04.07.10)
The English translation, which is NOT Scripture (only the original language--Hebrew, and in parts Aramaic--is Scripture), "bondswoman" ("maidservant" in KJ/V) is misleading and unfortunate. The context, 21.8-10, demonstrates that [1] the Hebrew term is אָמָה (am•ah′; designated future wife-mom), likely related to אֵמ (eim; mother) / אִמָּא (im′a; mom) and [2] that this term refers to a young girl contracted by a father from the lower income class to marry into the family of someone from the wealthier class. No word for "female slave" even exists in Biblical Hebrew!!! Captured women could be forcibly made one's wife. Underage daughters could be contracted among peers as a future bride. Or lower income fathers could contract his underage daughter with someone of a higher income class as a "designated future bride": designated either to become the bride of the principal of the contract himself or one of his sons. In all cases, however, these women became Israeli wives--they were your "Jewish mothers," NOT slaves! Think: why would a wealthy man consider marrying, or marrying one of his sons to, a poor girl? Obviously, like today, a poor girl can show great potential for learning, wisdom--and beauty. No rational wealthy man would consider paying money to contract marriage to an empty-headed ugly girl just because the father was in debt to someone else. Further, no rational wealthy man would consider marriage, for himself or his son, to a brutish woman--no matter how beautiful--who would cause nothing but embarrassing incidents in his influential circles. A girl with potential would have to receive proper education in social etiquette, etc. from a young age. This was a provision for a father to provide his bright and attractive young daughter the opportunity for a better life for herself and her children. And, of course, the opportunity for misojudaics to pervert it into charges of slavery. Not even the other Hebrew term, עֶבֶד (ev′ed) legitimately means "slavery"! We would understand ev′ed today as an employee under contract, which--only at the behest of the employee--could be extended to a lifetime contract (like the Japanese aspired to until the last couple of decades). David ha-Melekh, envisioning the Mashiakh, is the ev′ed of ha-Sheim, as is all of Yisraeil, including unconverted non-Jewish reverers of Torah. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer (& Orthodox Jew) Advocate for Logic as Hermeneutic Halakhic Authority Welcoming All Torah-reverers (Jews & non-Jews)
11. #1 & 2
Yoni ,   Tel Aviv   (04.07.10)
#1 You pay for what you get. You want the kosher stuff pay for it. There is 3 times the work in making meat kosher so suck it up or go eat treif #2 from the sound of it your daughter would be lucky for you to sell her. Maybe she will get a mature role model at last
12. everyone belives in somthing
izzy d   (04.07.10)
people call the religious nasty names etc. why do you care? do not use the tax/army excuse. This story is about an issue that has nothing to do with you and yet you are bothered by it. I bet I can rip your moral system to shreds.
13. Dear Martin
ierushalmit   (04.07.10)
You were meant to live in Israel as a Jew. So leave behind the conforts of your exile (easier said than done, I know) and join us!! Chiken, kosher for sure, in Israel sells at 5 US$ /kilo at the most or 1-1.5 US $ at discount (Rami Levi and Shefersal super market chains) before Peisach !!!! What the hell is a NZ$ worth of btw???
14. The Rabbi made a very god point!!
(04.07.10)
15. yeah watch out for us
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (04.07.10)
we mix the blood of children with flour to make our passover matz.... wait, no. i'm thinking of something else. besides, we sprinkle pork powder into everything we touch.... no, that's not right. oh well, demonizing people who are different seems always to be the right thing to do around these parts. it can't be wrong if everybody is doing it.
16. should i now consider no longer donating to orthodox causes?
ralph   (04.07.10)
17. #11 Excellent.
(04.07.10)
18. Anti everyone who is not theirs
OS ,   Israel   (04.07.10)
What R. Elyahsiv really wants to say is that unless you are the right kind of hareidi you really aren't Jewish - at least he doesn't see you that way - so why get all riled up by what he says - he won't trust our kashrut, schools, minyanim, etc. Let them live in their little corner and stop giving them so much press and air time - ignore them and they'll stay out of our lives.
19. This is not new but ancient, universally accepted halacha
Michael ,   Baltimore, USA   (04.07.10)
I am surprised that those who are either halachically ignorant or disinterested are choosing an ancient, universally accepted halacha to bash the religion of their grandparents. All leading Kashrut organizations provide a list of businesses known to have sold their Chometz before Pesach so that those purchasing chametz products do not violate this halacha. Chometz that was owned by a Jew (not sold before) over Pesach becomes forbidden forever. One assumes that after a month, this chometz is no longer present in the store and the consumer may resume in most cases shopping from these individuals. Rabbi Elyashiv did not make this up but was reiterating the well accepted halacha to inform the public. Ladies and gentleman, please, some respect for your tradition even if you choose personally not to adhere to it!
20. to all the ignorant little boys & girls in here:
shimon ,   herzelia, israel   (04.07.10)
read #19s post.
21. however #10 the gentile who converted condones hatred
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (04.07.10)
anyone looking for an outlet for your prejudice and hatred, go to his website and wallow.
22. Yoni #11
Martin Lonky ,   NZ   (04.07.10)
I am happy to pay 3 times more for kosher meat. My problem is 8 times more. U Get it ?
23. Attention all Haredim
Eddie ,   london UK   (04.08.10)
Thsi means, you do not buy chepa whiskey and spirits in ben Gurion Duty Free, or cigarettes,as the filters are Chometz. You can buy them from a makolet, and pay more for them.
24. Punish the bread!
Josh   (04.08.10)
Possibly the Rabbi needs to understand what exactly Torah states about sin. The bread is not the sin but having it on Pesach is. It is the choice of possessing it that is the sin. After Pesach the sin is already a debt. Maybe we should stop sharing sins on Yom Kippur to cover for these slugs. If what the Rabbi is considering was accurate that means all flour, rice beans and anything that was harvested before Pesach needs to be trashed. Clearly the Rabbi is ONCE AGAIN VIOLATING Devarim 4:2. NO ADDITIONS! False additions complicate and remove Torah from our people. That is why the people were instructed to protect Torah from peiople like the "good" Rabbi. Let the curses on the sinners pay for sins and lets move on and stop making an object once again the misplaced "sinner" and not the people that did the sin. The law of Matzah is only valid on Pesach and if Moses wanted the chametz to be the focus of the law, he would have wrote that all hametz is rendered an abomination on Pesach in all the land and not just withing the homes. You're out of line Rabbi. Get back in line with Torah. No Additions.
25. Can anyone explain why YNet . . .
Shalom Hartman   (04.08.10)
continually writes articles which without a knowledgeable background, make our leading Rabbanim look like morons? When will YNet and its readership learn that most of Israel's problems today stem from a lack of peace WITHIN OUR BORDERS? No-one is telling any secular reader to not buy bread, pasta or whatever from the local secular markolet. What the Rav is saying (nothing new here), is Be careful to ensure that the chametz you are buying was either sold to a non-Jew in a binding agreement over Pesach, or else buy products made after Pesach. A walk round Jerusalem yesterday showed many "sale of chametz" notices in shop windows next to their kashrut certificates. One can feel comfortable buying there if they hold that it is permissable to sell chametz. BTW - regarding the whiskey - you are quite correct. Religious Jews buy whiskey after Pesach from non-Jewish stores, until Shavuot, by which time a person is allowed to be lenient unless they know for a fact that the product was held by a Jew over Pesach.
26. to #24
david ,   quito ecuador   (04.08.10)
CHUTZPAH!!!!!!! You obviously consider yourself to have the same level of knowledge than the two Rabbies, go learn and them comment, you make a fool of yourself. And you sin.
27. #21 - I know, Mike - he's a charlatan and an idiot....
Andy ,   ramat hasharon   (04.08.10)
Adopting this orthodix Jewish character. He's freakin baptist preacher. LOL!!!
28. Another fascinating article....
Paul ,   USA   (04.08.10)
But that's nothing compared to the talkback section. Some of the subjects of these articles I am not familiar with, but I learn and learn !
29. #19 You want us to be hypocrites? I see!
Josh   (04.08.10)
"please, some respect for your tradition even if you choose personally not to adhere to it! " Ahahahah! My traditions?! Like forcing women to wear wigs or dressing like some 1800 theatrical character. Maybe worshipping Eliyahu or sacraficing to the Fathers for a blessing on Succoth. In other words back something you think is wrong an evil as if it is not. Gotacha. I understand completely where you are coming from. Leck mPo. Devarim 4:2 NO ADDITIONS. Its not Torah an NO I won't respect it.
30. Re;#19 and #20-re-read the article.
Bartley Kulp ,   Afulla, Israel   (04.08.10)
Rav Elyashuv is saying something else from what you are suggesting. He is not talking about businesses that did not sell their chometz. He does not have to warn about that. The religious public knows that. According to this article, he is basically declaring the machirat chometz of non-observant people at being invalid. Even if they did go through proper channels for the transaction, because he says that they do not consider it as such but merely a religious ritual. Therefore they do not have the proper "daas kinyan" for the transaction to work. It is an interesting point to ponder.
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