The Holocaust question
Yair Lapid
Published: 11.04.10, 18:14
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1. Generally good article, except...
AK   (04.11.10)
1. Churchill morality is questionable where Jews were concerned. Churchill not only didn't take any action whatsoever to aid European Jews during the Holocaust but actively prevented any action to save them, keeping the gates to Palestine firmly closed to the; Soviet Army fought only when their country was attacked, Stalin signing a pact with Hitler which allowed Hitler's attack on Poland. Auschwitz was liberated because it was on the way to Berlin -- nothing to do with morality; The US entered the war because the Japanese bombed Pearl harbor and not before. Jews were generally denied entry into the US (read the Abandonment of the Jews) and no effort was made by the US to prevent the Holocaust - nothing, zero. The lesson of the Holocaust is that generally, there were no good guys were Jews were concerned, just a few hundreds moral individuals who acted decently and bravely in contract to the general populations and governments of their countries. In fact, every country listed as moral in this article acted solely in what they perceived to be their best interest, regardless of morality.
2. The Holocaust (Shoah)
Joe ,   Israel   (04.11.10)
It behooves the Jews to remember that the world would rather say Kadish (mourner's prayer) for a Jew than save him.
3. The #1 lesson of the Shoah is same as #1 lesson of football:
Dr. L. Brnd ,   San Diego, USA   (04.11.10)
The best defense is a good offense. The Shoah proved once again (after the Pharoahs, the Amalakites, the Inquisitions and the Pogroms) that we can not rely on the morality of the world or "world opinion". Trusting the goyim can sometimes be a short term tactic, but it can never be a long-term strategy (as Obama proves to us daily). The USA kept itself and the free world safe from Soviet enslavement by threatening them with total nuclear annilation if they ever attacked us. It worked, for the entire half-century of the Cold War, untill the USSR collapsed. We Jews are a small people, heavily outnumbered. but as long as we maintain a credible military capability to take 100 million (or so) of the bastards down with us, we will all be safe. Had we had this ability in 1490 or 1890 or 1939, there would have been no Inquisition, no Pogrom, and no Holocaust. Winning against genocide in this way not the main survival lesson, its the only survival lesson (to borrow from Woody Hayes, famous US football coach).
4. A case study
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim,   (04.11.10)
B"H A case study on how to write an article on the "holocaust", without ever mentioning G-d. More than His Name, His project for the Jewish people is the real unlearned lesson, a refusal that I have no doubt will have dire consequences on us all. Again, people are trying and hoping to outsmart Hashem and get away with it: it won't work.
5. to Dr. L. Bnd: force has its limits
Justine   (04.11.10)
Relying solely on force has its limits, not only because of morality but also because of feasibility. No country on earth has a potential to fight the whole world indefinitely. Israel has the capability to take down 100 million? Fine, but what if some terrorist doesn't care. What if some country evolves the capability to take down Israel with it - how will the chicken game play out then? So don't scorn the goyim - they outnumber you so much that you are stuck till the messiah comes. You HAVE to have allies.
6. Author's jokes!
Rita ,   Tel Aviv   (04.11.10)
Enlighten Europe? That is the biggest joke? Europe is part of Arabia in the future. So this guy will speak of enlighten Saudi Arabia?
7. Brilliant, except for the last sentence.
Vardina   (04.11.10)
We should be first to kill whoever intends to harm us. I don't care if in the process we make some people suffer. It is entirely their fault, not ours. I am sure your late father -blessed be his memory - would agree with me.
8. I have to draw your attention to the fact that
Vardina   (04.11.10)
ironically enough we have to thank Japan for the liberation of Auschwitz by the USA. Only the attack on Pearl Harbor , not concern for what was happening to the Jews in Auschwitz pushed USA into the war. How many visas was the USA prepared to grant Jewish refugees who managed to escape from Nazi Germany? Zero, Conclusion: we can depend mainly on ourselves and therefore feel free to defend ourself in every possible way, regardless of what others may think or want. Churchill could not care less either.
9. #3 : Absolutely right!
Vardina   (04.11.10)
10. Sorry Vardina,it wasnt Obamas Uncle-It was Former USSR
Alan ,   SA   (04.11.10)
that liberated three quarters of Europe,destroyed Nazi hordes and liberated AUSCHWITZ ITSELF
11. # 10
Birdi ,   Israel   (04.11.10)
Correct Alan, USSR liberated Auschwitz in January 1945.
12. Good, Interesting BUT..........
John Phee ,   Sydney, AUSTRALIA   (04.12.10)
Good article. Thoughful & thought provoking. Evil wins not because of what is done to us but what we do in return. Churchill was not a moral man. He was cruel, cowardly (look at his Boer War actions) & vicious (Dresden). He also sent Jewish children to the camps because it served his purpose. He would not bomb the camps because they were hampering Germany's war effort. But I don't think he did this because he was anti-Jewish. America cam into the war first for money, they robbed the poor British blind & then were forced into it by Pearl Harbour. Some of their big steel makers were still doing business with their German counterparts in 1943 & 44. As for the Russians there was no morality their. Neustettin & Goldorp showed that as well as over 2,000, 000 German women & children raped & about 200,000 raped to death. As for Germany well look at what was done to the Germans from 1918 to 1939. The genocides infliced on them by the French, Poles, Czechs & Yuugoslavs with the support of the Leqague of Nations. Israel has the support of fair minded people in it's fight forn existance. But it is not a blank cheque. Israeli's (be it Jew, Druze, Bedoin, Christain of even Muslim) should fight for their country with honour, pride in as moral a manner as possible being mindful that their are fellow human beings on the other side who may not be their by choice. They should have compassion for the helpless & assistance for the injured & wounded. BUT THEY MUST WIN.
13. Shoah's lesson: Appeasing evil never works
Gershon   (04.12.10)
Only leftists believe "every person" knows good from evil. Meanwhile, Hamas murders their own people and teaches children hatred for Jews and Christians, and Iran states their goal to destroy Israel and half the world's Jews. Leftists naively believe that if only Israel would give in to their demands, Iran and Hamas would change overnight and become Israel's friends. Leftists did not learn the number one lesson of the Holocaust: appeasement of evil never works. These optimistic dreamers think like Neville Chamberlain who believed that giving Czech land to Hitler would be enough to prevent war.
14. Well, that must have been one mixed blessing, Birdi
Cameron ,   USA   (04.12.10)
Those whom the Germans didn't manage to off, were interrogated by Russian troops & NKVD agents to identify intellectual and capitalist threats to Russian/Communist interests, and packed off to be liquidated. Out of the frying pan, and into the fire, eh?
15. Lessons Of The Holocaust
NormanF ,   Salida, USA   (04.12.10)
I happen to agree with Gershon. The Holocaust was directed at the Jews and the world by and large was happy to be rid of them. This attitude is very much in vogue today with Iran. The Jewish people should expect no help from the world. History has repeatedly given us warning: those who talk of extermination sooner or later fulfill their declaration. Hitler showed the word was truly the father to the deed. When the Iranians declare they intend to wipe out Israel, if they had the means today they would do it. Israel must not put its very existence into the hands of a hostile nation. In my mind, survival and morality in Israel's case are one and the same, for all time.
16. shoah
luly ,   israel   (04.12.10)
you are right ,but your article is to long and loses the essence about shoah and our people
17. Survival? Morality? Fear of the giants.
Josh   (04.12.10)
This fear of the world is really a failure to trust in G-d. Much like the Hebrews who failed to do battle with the giants when Moses said G-d is with you. For that G-d would even let them enter into the land. So quit whining and stand tall. But can we trust in G-d being with us. If the answer is no, then no matter what we do, we will not save ourselves. Saying never again when we live in rebellion and sin is like saying the titanic is unsinkable. It just begs Torah curses to prove us wrong. For only the hand of G-d saves. But why would G-d not be with us? Because we are addicted to provocation, certain business practices and me first attitudes? What a travesty it is to hear the words morality but not see them in action. How many people get a square deal from their fellows? And let's be clear, persecution of converts and outsiders is not something new from the holocaust. No Sir! We can barely trust one another because the cult like circus atmosphere that religion has dumped on us long before the shoa. Cult increased anti-Semitism and seeks to controll our free will and thoughts. Cult fears already has Scientologists being targeted. Like Japanese beetles in water, do we climb on the others to get above the water. Is this necessary or is this water really cult practices of breaking a person for brainwashing? This was going on before the holocaust. Some of this has been warned about by Moses as a key point not to mess up and talked about by prophets. "Accused is one who...etc etc." The shoah is a symptom of a bigger issue. Freedom of the Hebrews to choose life. Ok so we haven't been the best children, but are our spiritual leaders really trying to get us on the right path or have we been down that deadly path that leads to nowhere too many times already. Devarim 4:2 - no adding. When is the last time an actual word of Torah was quoted or spoken at a tephillin booth? Can even a dati man recall the story of baalam? Is a Jainism chakra and a fish really going to protect us from judgments we deserve which an evil eye supposedly spurs into righteousness? In this information age, there are no more Jewish secrets. So since the world can see in our windows, maybe we should clean house and maybe we should change our attitudes from the one Torah warns about to the ones Torah says we should embrace. We only cheat ourselves by not being a light to all nations. We must be standing tall as Integrity, Honesty, Compassion, Righteousness, Judgment, Love of G-d and Honor are the things the world points to and not spying, tough business deals, stealth retribution, and bum-rush judo. When men go around in 1800 dress treating everyone but their own like dog's even provoking people by standing in their way or intentionally jamming objects impolitely in their faces to get a rise, we put a match to the fuel and it will bite us both from a Torah curse aspect but also from retaliation of victims. Abraham was hospitable. Converts were rejoiced. Rachel was a pagan. Hebrews had no machizahs or kippahs. Why now are we this way? Time to grow into the nation we are supposed to be. No borogases but integrity, problem resolution, and open debate. Hearing among disputants, not protecia one-sided "good family" favor and unrighteousness. One law. You shall not show favor in judgment. The world will respect the Jews when we earn it from them and show them we have courage to be open and honest. We can behave like OJ supporters and get respect. If we protect evil just because it is our Jewish family doing it, we are no better and the world has a right to point fingers. Israel is only guaranteed by G-d for choose lifers not simply because we have the label Jewish. If we can't do even the simplest parts of Torah, it says we cannot remain in the land but must be evicted into Diaspora and curses. Choose again. Chose life.
18. shoah
lylu ,   israel   (04.12.10)
did you ever think there are muslims fight for the best interest of jewish people? please come and live here ,not in the far Australia and you will be iluminated ,about the "fellow human beings" did you ever think about those mothers who lost there famillies in the shoah and then they lost there children or nephius in army for the jewish people sefty?
19. Morality and the lessons of the Shoah
Ussishkin ,   Tel Aviv Israel   (04.12.10)
I am named for a Holocaust victim. Tho' I knew that I was named for him, I didn't learn of his fate until the late 1970s thanks to Beate Klarsfeld who I interviewed and who gave me the "Memorial of the Transportation of the Jews of France". This was the lists of all those Jews transported from France to the concentration camps, she and her husband Serge had collated. From this I found the date of my namesake's train to Auschwitz, the date of his arrival and his fate - he was gassed on arrival. I am constantly aware of my association with this man I never knew and thanks to Talkback columns like this I was able to meet his daughter a year ago in Paris. We both have very strong links to Israel and care about it deeply. We are both profoundly touched and linked by the Shoah, she much more than I. She lost her father and suffered the wrenching experience of separation from her mother for much of the 2nd World War. Israel is much more than a safe haven for Jews - indeed I am not comfortable with this attitude towards Israel's ethos. And tho' the Shoah leaves a visceral mark on Jews, the fact of it has become the yardstick by which we are measured. It has also become institutionalised and been abused as a political tool to justify too much that we have done and are doing. It has lead to an attitude especially prevalent today in Israel, more publicly displayed than in many decades, that we are answerable to no one, and no one may tell us what we can or cannot do. Never mind the measures of the outside world, for a moment. What about our own measures of ouselves? Can we really look at ourselves in the mirror every morning and tell ourselves we are clean of hand and pure of heart in all we do? While I don't agree with much of the early parts of this piece by Lapid, I do agree with his last paragraph. For us to progress, to advance from where we are today, mindful of the moral lessons of survival and existence, we have to absorb what Lapid is telling us. There is a price to pay for pursuing the first principle blindly, which we can only begin to recognise if and when we are ready to open our eyes to what we do to ensure our existence, our survival. Being wilfully blind to that surely endangers our future as much as any threat we face. Lapid’s second principle is essential to us. It is an essential element in our survival as a people – always to question and challenge what others seek to do to us, and in what way we deal with the answers.
20. The Shoah is simple.
gb ,   USA   (04.12.10)
Hatred can be used to convince people to commit unspeakable deeds. Dictators need someone to blame. The Jews, for being different, offer perfect scapegoats. If you want to avoid another Shoah, defend yourself. Defend yourself by whatever means necessary and do so with the belief that whatever the means used, it is likely more moral than what would be done to us. When you see them calling for Jewish blood, believe them and remember the lessons of 1967: in the end we are alone and it is critical to hit them first.
21. Shoah denial will only continue. What then? (end)
David ,   La Mesa Calif   (04.13.10)
22. Why falsify historical facts?
tanya ,   tel aviv israel   (04.13.10)
Red Soviet Army liberated most European jews from Nazi consentrated camps. Still when asked, most israelis will tell that Americans did .
23. #4 Ariel and his case study
Avi ,   Israel   (04.14.10)
Any particular reason a non beliver should refer to this God of yours ? Once again forcing religion on non belivers or are you just that insecure. Still if you think it justifies you living on stolen land , oh sorry i forgot God gave it you !
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