Opinion
Poll the people
Uriel Abulof
Published: 09.05.10, 10:31
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1. Palestinians are For Free Palestine then 4 Peace. Israelis?
Palestinian   (05.09.10)
2. 2 states for 2 people IS the conflict
Sam ,   Canada   (05.09.10)
The conflict is about having Jewish-majority and Palestinian-majority states not about merely having 2 states. If the Palestinians can't come to terms with that there is no resolution to the conflict. Trying to pussyfoot around that is just a recipe for more Palestinian violence in the future where they try to overturn the Jewish majority in Israel at a future date.It's useless for Jews to have an empty peace agreement just for the sake of having a peace agreement.
3. Israel will be struck twice by lightening
jason white ,   afula,israel   (05.09.10)
By the two baraks. Bibi should dump ehud and break off ties with hussein and his gang. No land for a pali state there are enough arab countries to absorb them and we should not give them one square c.m. of our holy Jewish land.
4. Obama vs. Rabin
Jehudah Ben-Israel ,   Qatzrin, Israel   (05.09.10)
We have experienced Obama's hostility towards Israel, its elected officials, laws and governing procedures. His words and acts during the past year have amounted to an aggressive insult of all the above which are symbols of Jewish sovereignty in the Jewish historic homeland. Mr. Yitzhaq Rabin, the prince of peace as some would describe him viewed an accommodation of peaceful coexistence in the following way: 1. Jerusalem will remain united under Israel's sovereignty. 2. The Jordan Valley must be viewed in the widest definition of the term and must remain under Israel's control 3. Large settlement blocs, e.g. Ariel, Gush Etzion, will be incorporated into Israel's sovereign territory 4. A future Palestinian state will not be a regular state in that its border passes and air space will have to be controlled by Israel and it will have to remained demilitarized Rabin talk about his these contours in his last speech at the Knesset in October 1995, before the war of terror that commenced in October 2000, and before the intensification of the war of rockets fired at Israel after Israel vacated Gaza in 2005. His views today would be even less liberal. Shouldn't Obama learn from Rabin's experience and wisdom...??
5. Translation
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (05.09.10)
Hussein Obama is desperately trying to stop his plummeting approval and popularity ratings. Much of the plunge is due to the fact that the American people really do not like his foreign policy of reaching out and making nice with the Islamofascist world. Americans, with a handful of discountable exceptions, love and support Israel and do not want to build bridges with Iran, Egypt, Syria, Turkey or any other Islamofascist state. What Israel should do is reject Hussein Obama's half-hearted gestures, and allow his slide to continue. November is not that far away. Hussein Obama is in for a very big comeuppance, and Israel should just let it happen. Particularly since Hussein Obama is only reaching out to Israel to protect himself. He has not had a change of heart, or mind.
6. The categorical refusal of the Muslim-Arab leadership to...
Jehudah Ben-Israel ,   Qatzrin, Israel   (05.09.10)
...accept the concept of "two states for two people", nearly 63 years since the United Nations voted to establish a "Jewish state" alongside an "Arab state", is more revealing than nearly all statements made by the Muslim-Arab leaders to date. This refusal to accept the universally accepted right of national self-determination of the Jewish people, on any piece of land, coupled with the several attempts to wipe Israel off the face of earth through full-scale wars as well as an on-going war-of-attrition-through-terror against the Jewish civilian population of the country, a war that is yet to cease, is at the heart of the lack of trust Israelis and Jews worldwide have for the Muslim-Arabs leadership. It is not entirely clear what, if anything, will change this Muslim-Arab attitude. It is certain however that the longer this refusal to accept Israel's RIGHT to be, to exist as the nation-state of the Jewish people continues it will be nearly impossible for Israel to take additional risks to those already taken towards an accommodation of peaceful coexistence between Israel and its Arab neighbors.
7. #5 Sarah B., USA/Israel
Albrecht Klein ,   Germany   (05.09.10)
The bigger they come, the harder they fall.
8. Sarah B. USA/Israel # 5: The Emperor's name is
A linguist   (05.09.10)
actually Barakeh Hussein Obama. Barack is only a named derived from the original Arabic Barakah, the blessed one. Hebrew has a similar name, Barukh, also meaning the blessed one, but of course the Emperor is not a Hebrew.
9. :: Jehudah - #6 Israel has no right to exist
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (05.09.10)
Poor Jehudah, each day Jehudah trots out the same lies and BS which he can never back up with facts. In this case Jehudah pretends that Israel (as a nation) somehow has a ‘right’ that no other nation has. This BS that Israel has a ‘right’ not only to ‘exist’ but to ‘exist as a Jewish nation’ is purely a figment of Jehudah’s imagination and every time this crud is spewed on these threads I shall correct it. To repeat again: NO NATION HAS A ‘RIGHT’ TO EXIST. Nations either exist or they don’t – it is that simple. I have of course asked Jehudah the following question: where is this 'right to exist as a Jewish nation' enshrined? Naturally Jehudah can’t answer this question as it is NOT based on international law nor any law that any nation (Arab or otherwise) is bound by. I would also add that Egypt and Jordan were NEVER asked to acknowledge such a fairytale ‘right’ when they signed their treaties with Israel.
10. To: A Linguist at No. 8
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (05.09.10)
Thank you for the linguistics lesson. As it happens, I am aware of the origins of his name, but people who are not familiar with the Hebrew language or with the Arabic language likely are not. A little knowledge is a good thing. Thank you. Sarah
11. Dr. Uriel Abulof assumes that Abu Mazen wants peace.
redbourn ,   Arad, Israel   (05.09.10)
A rather foolish article because Dr. Uriel Abulof writes such things as, "Suppose that Netanyahu, perhaps as much as Arafat then, does not want peace", but he doesn't mention whether or not Abu Mazen wants peace which he clearly doesn't, and if he did, he couldn't deliver it. "Peace in the Middle East is clearly within reach". Is the author serious? Peace is not even on the horizon. Michael
12. To: No. 9
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (05.09.10)
Interesting that you have a problem with the democratic State of Israel being a Jewish state. You have never articulated any difficulty with Iran or Saudi Arabia being an Islamic state. Nor have you expressed any difficulty with the fact that France is officially a Catholic country, as are Poland and Austria, to name but two. Does it bother you that Church of England is the official religion of Great Britain? No, you reserve your ire exclusively for Israel being a Jewish state. Says a great deal about you, none of it particularly complimentary.
13. an excellent article
mike   (05.09.10)
as a former south african, i watched the peaceful transition of power and the 1992 referendum was a key. also key however was a strong public relations campaign on both sides promoting "peace in our land". what needs to happen is an intensive public relations campaign on both sides. abbas does not simply need to 'fight incitement'. that is passive and pointless. he needs to stand up and say repeatedly "We want a peaceful transition to a two state for two people solution. Both sides will work together. Both sides will put away their violence. Both sides will stop making actions that threaten the other." This is what happened in Israel prior to camp david accords -- remember the songs for peace, the peace rallies, etc etc? After this, then referendums on the same day with the question being -- "do you support a two state for two peoples solution, recognizing the palestinian state as the homeland for the palestinian people, and the jewish state as the homeland for the jewish people, based on the 1967 borders, with minor land swaps totalling less than 5% of the total land, with the goal of a permanent end to all claims and conflict?" when both sides realize that the majority of people have spoken for peace, it will be a major step forward in trust.
14. :: Sarah B - #12 - You are so mistaken...
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (05.09.10)
You claim that France is *officially* a Catholic country? This is utter nonsense - nothing could be further from the truth!! 1905 was a key date in French history, for starters the French government adopted the principle of “laïcité” (look it up) which in essence forbids the recognizing of *ANY* religion. The French state since this date declared itself a ‘secular state’, stop all funding of religious groups and declared that all religious building were property of the state. I would also add that only slightly more than 50% of French People are Catholic. Sarah B why do you continually insist on misinforming readers here? Assuming you had any form of decent education and kept up with current history you would not be stating such claptrap as ‘facts’? No it is not. You are like Sarah Palin who thought Africa was a country or some such nonsense. Great Britain, aside from being an island, is a term used for the United Kingdom of Great Britain, a ‘collection’ of ‘kingdoms’ and bits and pieces like Northern Ireland thrown in. You will find that these various parts (eg: Wales/Scotland) seceded from the Church of England a long time ago. In short the ‘Church of England’ is applicable only to ‘England’, I would have thought that would have been obvious to you from the terminology alone! It is frightening to think that some misguided people here take you at face value. Can’t you understand that a “Democratic (Secular) State” and a “Jewish (Theocracy) State” are incompatible?! You can only have one or the other. Heck you don’t even know what a “Jewish State” would be like because you and your Ynut friends can’t even decide on what it is to be “Jewish”. *Any* modern nation state based on a Theocracy is a throwback to a more primitive time. Sarah B why on earth would a supposedly modern democratic state like Israel want to become a religious state like Iran?
15. To: No. 14
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (05.10.10)
Educate yourself right here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_state-established_religions
16. :: Sarah B - #15
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (05.10.10)
And, So, What?! You utterly fail to put this web link in any context - what is your point/rebuttal? Do you think that posting a web link and four words you are somehow exonerated from the misinformation that you tried to peddle as ‘fact’? Why do you not address the questions in my previous post? Will you recognize the fact that France is not ‘officially a Catholic nation’?
17. # 9
Birdi ,   Israel   (05.10.10)
Matty you are only playing with words. What Jehudah is saying is that the Arabs have to recognize that Israel is the land of the Jews. Israel has the same right to exist as any other nation on this earth. How many times has the monkey of Iran threatened to wipe israel off the map?? Loads of times. The PLO charters dont accept Israel as the Jewish nation. Whether you agree & accept this is immaterial to us. By bashing Jehudah at every opportunity you get simply shows you to be ignorant & totally closed minded.
18. to #14 the franch mandat in the ME
ghostq   (05.10.10)
started only in 1914 and they also did devide and conquer, up until the french mandat all Lebanon was chritian, but they brought forign people from the east like the Muslims, again devide and conquer as result even this very day Lebanon got constant civil war, needless to say when they established in 1940 syria they created a situation in which minority of Bedoin unis ruling over shiis as result in order to controll the shiis the sunis had to supress them with militery force, the franch did worse than the Brits, but the Brits also creat havok around the ME. go learn reality.
19. :: Birdi - #17
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (05.10.10)
No they don’t! What onus is on the Arab nations (or any nation) to “recognize that Israel is the land of the Jews”? None whatsoever is the answer. No nation is obliged to recognize another nation as the “land of blah”. The very best you can hope for is if the Arab nations normalize relations with Israel and the Israeli people (Jews and non-Jews alike). Nations will recognize that Israel exists but there is no law or reason for any nation to recognize that Israel has a right to exist. Birdi you seem incapable of grasping the fact that NO NATION has a “right” to exist. Let me repeat this fact: No nation (including Israel) has a lawful right to exist under international law. Existence is a matter of fact (de facto) rather than a moral right (de jure). Zero. Iran has never “threatened to wipe Israel off the map”. You will be incapable of showing me one correctly translated transcript in which Ahmadinejad used the terms “Israel” and “map” in the same sentence.
20. Matty #9 international law says the land is for Jewish self-
Shame   (05.10.10)
determination. http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=88076&articleId=101404&func=6&channel=People+Connection&filterRead=false&filterHidden=true&filterUnhidden=false http://www.acpr.org.il/ENGLISH-NATIV/02-issue/grief-2.htm http://www.mythsandfacts.com/conflict/mandate_for_palestine/mandate_for_palestine.htm This is very clear in international law based on the Balfour declaration, Paris peace conference, san remo and Mandate for Palestine 1924. American-Anglo treaty of 1922 makes it US law also. It amuses me that you spend so much time on these sites but don't know the basic facts of the conflict. Now legally how do the Palestinians own Palestine? Who owns Jerusalem http://ctstv.com/ontario/player.php?ctsvidID=17133&show=On The video above is by Dr Gautier who is an international law expert who spent 20 years studying the legal aspects to the conflict. As for the PLO and Peace the PLO charter of 1964 gives up all rights to WB, Gaza & E.Jerusalem, once it came under Jewish control it was wanted again? http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/cove1.html above is the Charter. http://www.iris.org.il/plophase.htm 1974 PLO phased plan how to destroy Israel in stages. Sad how you see it coming fruitful with Oslo and onwards. You show your open hostility towards Israel with no real basis to it. No country is perfect but if you can find a more moral army based on a war situation in the past 5 decades i would like to know. http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=28394 Arab Fatalities rank 49th. Another interesting link. Now whats your answer?
21. :: #20
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (05.10.10)
My answer is that obviously you are to ashamed to post under your usual name.
22. :: #20
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (05.10.10)
Hi "Shame", welcome to this site and thank you for your thoughtful post (its your very first post isn’t?). I think you are cherry-picking selected sources to fit your 'claim' while ignoring other much recent and relevant facts, UN Res's, ICJ rulings, Israeli high court rulings, etc, etc. A word to the wise though a bloke called Jehudah Ben-Israel might get snotty with you coz you are using all his usual Zionist misinformation and sources. You might want to change your writing style as well as that's like Jehudah's was well.
23. Matty Groves
Birdi ,   Israel   (05.10.10)
Upon assuming the premiership Menachem Begin spoke as follows. "Our right to exist-have you ever heard of such a thing? Would it enter the mind of any Briton,or Frenchman,Belgian,or Dutchman,Hungarian,or Bulgarian, Russian or American, to request for its people recognition of its right to exist? Mr.Speaker: We are granted the right to exist by the G*d of our fathers at the glimmer of the dawn of human civilization 4,000 years ago. Hence the Jewish people have an historic eternal, inalienable right to exist in the land, ERETZ ISRAEL, the land of our forefathers. We need nobody's recognition in asserting this inalienable right.And for this inalienable right,which has been sancitified in Jewish blood from generation to generation, we had paid the price unexampled in the annals of nations. Mr.Speaker, from the Knesset of Israel,I say to the world,our very existence per se is our right to exist." In 2009. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert demanded the Palestinian Authority's acceptance of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish State. The Knesset plenum gave initial approval in May 2009 to a bill criminalising the public denial of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish State, with a penalty of up to a year in prison. So Matty are you still gong to argue with the words of the late Menchem Begin, Olmert & the Israeli Knesset ?? You best not try visit Israel......
24. # 20
Birdi ,   Israel   (05.10.10)
After reading the links in post # 20, Matty Groves does'nt have a leg to stand on !!
25. :: Birdi - #23
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (05.10.10)
"We need nobody's recognition in asserting this inalienable right." Begin If Begin stated this why is Israel so desperate to get Arab recognition?
26. Israel soundly REJECTS the evil Two State Final Solution.
Chaim ,   Israel   (05.10.10)
Israeli leftists keep repeating the mantra over and over that "the vast majority of Israelis" want to divide our land. All the evidence proves otherwise. If Israel wanted to create a hostile new state in the heart of our sole, tiny Homeland, why are the main Knesset champions, of this abomination, (Labor and Meretz), being voted out of existence? Elections are far more reliable polls than those cooked up by leftists to advance their disastrous cause. Israel soundly REJECTS the evil Two State Final Solution.
27. # 25
Birdi ,   Israel   (05.10.10)
My 2nd attempt; So we can live in peace without Arab terrorism. (Dont give me your bs about occupation)
28. He's A Muslim
Dan ,   USA   (05.16.10)
It is obvious the writer knows nothing about the Kenyan born, Muslim Obama. Obama, by his upbringing and those he has surrounded himself with as well as those he has brought into his administration, cares nothing about Jews, nor Israel. He is and will continue to be for as long as he is in office a supporter of all causes Arab. And by the way Axilrod and Rahm are nothing more than self lothing Jews.
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