Opinion
The anti-Zionist hypocrisy
Dan Calic
Published: 18.05.10, 11:55
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1. agree that anti-Zionists are full of it
Israeli   (05.18.10)
and it is an excuse for not wanting Jews to control Muslims. But if we longed for return for 2000 years to our homeland, what about the Palestinians longing for their land? Shouldn't we understand their longing to return to their homeland? I don't believe we can live together at this point but I think we should understand Palestians better- we were there.
2. Israelis are False Jews
n.d   (05.18.10)
If 2000 years didn't make the land Palestinian/arab, then 62 years ain't going to make it Israeli.
3. Dan Calic, Abraham came from Babylonia (Iraq) to Canaan
n.d   (05.18.10)
4. Finally!
ray ,   Germany   (05.18.10)
This is the truth to the bone! if only the liberals where made to learn and understand these facts they would understand the true substance of Zionism. I especially hate it when liberal Jews take a different stand. I say onto them stay in the countries you dwell and wait for the next holocaust and see if you'll survive without a homeland. To this Zionism should always remain strong now and forever...there is no middle ground...there never has been nor will there ever be one.
5. Zionism, historically has been the strong affinity of the
Jehudah Ben-Israel ,   Qatzrin, Israel   (05.18.10)
Jewish people, within and without the Land of Israel, to Zion, also named Jerusalem, and its environes. In the 19th century Zionism has taken upon itself an additional task of becoming the Jewish people's non-violent (not pacifist mind you!) national liberation movement of the Jewish people. To single out the Jewish people and attack its national liberation movement which has been part of Jewish history and civilization is a round and about way of attacking the Jewish people itself while denying it the right to national liberation, to national self-determination and independence in its historic homeland. This therefore is a form of racism, anti-Jewish racism. Sadly, those claiming to be in the forefront of "progressivism" abroad are also in the forefront of anti-Jewish racism. Indeed, these people have become part of the UNHOLY TRINITY: Classic anti-Semitism, Islamism, "Progressive" anti-Jewish racism.
6. JERUSALEM MUST OWN BY WORLD JEWS BUT ...
ATİLLA KARAGÖZOĞLU   (05.18.10)
I prefer to die instead to talk lie. *** I been here for over 4 years now. I mean on israeli media ( mostly on ynet ) *** I USED TO SAY : JERUSALEM BELONGS TO ISRAEL. after a few months I changed my mind that to not say it again. why ? AFTER SEEN THIS ISRAEL'S CRIMES ! I TOLD MYSELF THAT THIS ISRAEL IS NOT THE ISRAEL IN TRUE GOOD JEWISH HEARTS. THEREFOR LETS FREEZE MY SLOGAN. LETS NOT USE IT UNTIL ISRAEL REALY CHANGES INTO A TRUE PEACEFULL LAND. *** YES. WE HAVE MECCA. I DONT KNOW WHAT PLACE CHRISTIANS HAVE. sorry about my ignorance. *** IF PALESTINIANS HAVE A LAND IF PALESTINIANS HAVE FREEDOOM IF PALESTINIANS HAVE NORMAL LIVES AFTER THAT IF PALESTINIANS HAVE A PROBLEM WITH JERUSALEM ! WE, AS WORLD GIVE HELP TO THEM TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE MUSLIMS NO NEED JERUSALEM. *** AS MY NAME ATİLLA KARAGÖZOĞLU AS MY NATIONALTY IS TURKISH JERUSALEM BELONGS TO JEWS. *** THE DAMN 67 BORDERS. I THINK IT IS A MUST FOR THE PEACE. AND I DONT KNOW HOW MUCH PLACE THE 67 BORDERS TAKE FROM JERUSALEM. *** IF I WAS KING OF ALL YOURS I WOULD DO AS FOLLOW ; 1. I would make the 67 borders come to true. 2. I WOULD TELL THE PALESTINIANS THAT KEEP LIVING IN JERUSALEM WHERE YOU ARE NOW. AS THE WAY TURKISH JEWS WHO AND HOW LIVES IN TURKEY. I WOULD ALSO TELL THE CHRISTIANS SAME THINGS. BUT I WOULD LET ISRAEL ANNOUNCE JERUSALEM AS CAPITOL. PS: I WOULD ALSO WARN ISRAEL THAT " DO NOT ! DO NOT TOUCH THE MOSQUE AND THE CHRISTIAN HOLY PLACES" *** but I must first see Israel truly changes into peacefull land. THAN THAN I WOULD ALSO WARN ALL ARABIC STATES DO NOT ! BDO NOT BOTHER ISRAEL ANYMORE. *** give golan syria back. I HATE WHEN THEY TALK. THEY ALSO SUPPORTED TERROR FOR YEARS. than I would warn syria that BE GOOD. AND MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. *** LEBANON ! WHAT ISRAEL DONE TO LEBANON ? I REALY DONT KNOW. BUT I USE TO WARN THEM TOO. I ALSO USED TO WARN WORLD THAT LEAVE LEBANON ALONE. LEAVE THEM FREE. *** JORDAN ! I DONT KNOW MUCH ABOUT. BUT THE WAY THEY TREAT PALESTINIANS I DONT LIKE. EIGYPT ! THEY ARE ALREADY FRIEND OF ISRAEL. *** SAUDI ARABIA AND THE OTHER LITTLE RICH ARABIC COUNTRIES ! I WOULD TAKE 50 % PETROL MONEY TO BUILD MY KINGDOOM FOR WORLD PEACE FOR A FEW YEARS. *** lets forget whatever I told above. LETS WORK FOR BETTER DAYS. simple life. ps : ynet ! feel free to delete this post.
7. Where....
David ,   Haifa   (05.18.10)
Where does Ynet find all those rightwing writers who have been publishing their drivel in recent months on this site, and whom nobody ever had heard of before?
8. Mr.Dan Calic....Actually you're answering yourself
Salma ,   Palestine   (05.18.10)
"If any other group has to reinvent history and perpetrate outright lies, in order to justify unwarranted claims to our land and against our people, then with all due respect, they deserve no respect" Strongly Agree .THANK YOU FROM THE DEPTHS OF MY HEART Mr.Calic , I can understand that many critics of Zionism supports the Palestinian National Movement?! Or are we an exception :(
9. Thank you, Jehudah (#5) for articulating it so well.
Ruti ,   Kibbutz Nirim   (05.18.10)
10. Zionsim
Said ,   Amman, Jordan   (05.18.10)
I agree that Jews deserve a homeland of their own, but Mr. Calic, you obfuscate the facts: the reason that there are so many people opposed to Zionism is not because Jews want a homeland of their own, but because in creating their homeland they had to dispossess a large number of Arabs from their land. THAT is the crux of the matter that you fail to understand, or simply don't want to understand. What did the two rabbis sent by the first Zionist Congress in Basel report after returning from Palestine? They said, "The bride is beautiful, but she's married to another man."
11. I am a Zionist...
Chris Rettenmoser ,   Bayerisch Gmain Germ   (05.18.10)
because I believe, that Israel is the ancient land of the Jews and that it must be defended against all its enemies and by all means possible... It feels good, being a Zionist...
12. to #2: your slogan is what's false, and you're also ignorant
(05.18.10)
I advice you learn the history of the land apparently so dear to you. Israel was ruled over the years by different peoples and religions. The Arabs were just one episode in the land's history. Why should the Arab narrative take precedence over the Jewish one? After all we were the ones that won the war that you started. We were the ones willing to split the land between Jews and Arabs (the "Palestinian" name for the Arabs living in this land only came after 67) - which you refused. You have a huge Arab territory yet you will not give up the tiny territory that is now Israel. And who were the Arabs that did rule the land at some point (just like Turks, Jews, Crusaders etc. at other times)? They were also people who conquered the land from some else. What makes them the legitimate owners of the land??
13. :: Dan Calic clearly doesn’t understand ‘Zionism’...
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (05.18.10)
As Dan Calic clearly doesn’t understand ‘Zionism’ or is dishonestly selective in his definition of the term. Calic would like us all to believe that there is only one kind of ‘Zionism’ and all Jews support this ‘nationalistic movement’. This is a fallacy on two fronts as ‘Zionism’ comprises of many different flavors (eg: Nationalist, Revisionist, Liberal, Labor, Religious etc) and not all Jews support or agree with ‘Zionism’. Now obviously there is a big difference between ‘Liberal Zionism’ and ‘Religious Zionism’ and no one Jew would be party to both these forms of Zionism. It should be noted that ‘Zionism’ and ‘Post-Zionism’ are two very different concepts the latter being dominated by ‘Religious Zionism’ while the former was driven by ‘Liberal/Labor Zionism’. It is this modern day ‘Post-Religious Zionism’ that supports and justifies the illegal settlements in the Palestinian WB (and also the previous illegal settlements in Gaza) which has resulted in the brutal terror attacks (murder, physical attacks, destruction of farmland and property etc) on innocent Palestinian civilians. It is this modern day ‘Post-Religious Zionism’ that blindly insists that the Palestinian WB is part of ‘Eretz Israel’ and only Jews have a right to reside there. It is very important to note that this ‘Post-Religious Zionism’ is driven by a belief in ‘Judaism’ NOT by a belief in ‘nationalism’. This is plain to see by the rejection of the Israeli secular state (and its laws) by the Religious Zionists. Collectively Zionism has resulted in the establishment of modern day Israel and nobody has a problem with that, it is this modern day ‘Post-Religious Zionism’, which resolves to recreate a religious Judaic society and culture similar to that which existed thousands of years ago, that most people have a problem with and perceive as religiously racist, backward etc. Nobody is singling out the Jewish people as a whole and attack their “national liberation movement” people are objecting to a racist and violent faction of the “Post-Zionism movement”. If such a ‘Post-Religious Zionistic’ ideology had of been confined to the State of Israel most people would not have an issue however as this racist religious ideology has been exported to the occupied Palestinian territories (much to the determent of the Palestinians) there is legitimate reason and cause to oppose and reject this racist ideology just as they reject and oppose racist Islamic ideologies eg; the Taliban. If some people reject the comparison between Religious Zionist and the Taliban just compare the following quotes: Religious Zionist Quote: “God wants the children of Israel to return to their home in order to establish a Jewish sovereign state in which Jews could live according to the laws of Torah [...] Therefore, settling Israel is an obligation of the religious Jews and helping Zionism is actually following God's will”. (Rabbi Kook) Taliban Quote: “We want to live a life like the Prophet lived 1400 years ago and jihad is our right. We want to recreate the time of the Prophet and we are only carrying out what the Afghan people have wanted for the past 14 years”. (Mullah Wakil) To sum up: 1) The “Post-Zionism movement”, based on a extreme religiously driven ideology that Jews have a god-given right to settle anywhere they like in the Palestinian WB and establish their own Judaic society outside mainstream Israeli society, is *not* comparable to the collective Zionistic movement which has already established a secular Israeli state. 2) It is this backward religiously driven racist Judaic ideology that people the world over are objecting to just as they are objecting to the likes of the Taliban movement in Afghanistan which follows a similar backward religiously driven racist Islamic ideology.
14. Israel exists by divine will
oxo ,   USA   (05.18.10)
Israel is a mere 0.0002% of ME land. Arabs sit on the other 99.998% and not only that, they have the oil riches. Palestinians today are 100% Arab. Arabs as a whole do not need land...it is not about land, it is their extreme intolerance for anything but Islam. Simple. HOWEVER, Israel is surrounded by enemies but G_d will not be mocked. This is a supernatural battle and the outcome is already known, revealed by G_d to those who are willing to see... And by the way, Jerusalem exists because it was created by King David, a Jewish monarch...
15. Who do you want to compare Israel to?
Smith ,   VT, USA   (05.18.10)
If you want to compare Israel to Saudi Arabia, then yes, Israel is very definitely much less racist. However, if Israel wants to put itself on par with Europe and North America, then such a comparison is meaningless. Being better than Saudi Arabia does not itself make a country good, or free, or tolerant. To answer your question of what would happen if Jews and Christians wanted to move to Saudi Arabia in great numbers - I would call them "fools" to want to do so. Saudi Arabia is a very racist country, with tons of governmental racism, and such an act would only be inviting discrimination and oppression. “We can accept co-existence with Jews, as long as they are the minority.” Indeed - that does seem to often be the Palestinian argument. But is the reciprocal not also the Israeli position? "We can accept co-existence with Arabs, as long as they are the minority." If Israel loses its majority population of Jews, that would be rather problematic to the idea of a Jewish state, would it not? There are many programs in place to encourage Jewish immigration and native births, and many to discourage Arab immigration (JLA policies, etc.) I would also very strongly argue that there is a huge difference between a people who are already inhabiting their land and a people who are trying to re-inhabit previously-lost land. You're right - that's extremely unique in history (usually, if a population has dispersed, they then assimilate into other ethnic groups, which happened much less for Semitic Jews than just about any other ethnic group). This is not a double-standard. It may be the wrong standard,* but holding differing opinions of Zionism and of resident culturally homogeneous groups is perfectly valid. *I personally am in general support of Zionism, and view it as appropriate particularly given the history of the past century or so.
16. Brilliant piece ... and so true
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (05.18.10)
17. To: n.d.
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (05.18.10)
You are really putting your ignorance on display. There is a connection between Israel the people and Israel the land that exceeds any other people's connection to the land. Moslems and Christians do not pray for the peace of Jerusalem. They do not turn toward Jerusalem when they pray. They do not long for her; they do not commemmorate any holy day by reciting "Next year in Jerusalem." Do you know the Bible? After Jacob battles the angel, G-d says to him, "Jacob, because thou hast met adversity and conquered it, Jacob, thy name is Israel." Jacob (Israel) is the father of the twelve tribes from whom all Jews descend. Israel the people. Israel the land was taken away from us and Israel the people were scattered throughout the world. Now we have it back, and there was an ingathering of the exiles. That will never change. Get used to the concept.
18. To: No. 10
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (05.18.10)
Should have taken the partition deal in 1947. But no, you chose to go to war instead. Many times. You lost all of them. Nothing has changed. The Palestinians worst enemy are .... yourselves.
19. Nobody reads or cares to, it simply has become fashionable
JMK ,   NYC   (05.18.10)
to let ones frustrations out on israell and it supporters. If reality does not jibe with idealogy they ignore or change reality, both past and present.
20. Talk about on target
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (05.18.10)
This is an absolute set of facts. As for the claims of the 'poor Palestinians' - they themselves admit that they are an invention of Egypt and the KGB. They have never existed period. The claims of the 'deposed' people - again an invention. They were not the owners of the land and most LEFT without ever seeing a single Israel. Now that we built something they want to claim our lands. For those that want to claim how cruel this is - TFB. The separation of India and Pakistan resulted in over 10 million people becoming refugees. Today how many are deposed or refugees - zero is a good number. This is our land. The Arabs have 99.93% of the lands. We will keep our little 0.07% and the racists that support apartheid and terrorism can go suck an egg.
21. TO: #10 Said from Jordan. Jordan is israel
Mark Bernadiner ,   Pearland, TX   (05.18.10)
In compliance with the 1920 League of Nations Resolution, two-state solution was implemented in 1922 when british administration of occupied Israel allocated more than 70% of Israel territory to palestinian arabs and created Transjordan (now Jordan) where today over 90 percent of the population identify themselves as Palestinian Arabs. Every party, including UN, EU, US, etc., must respect League of Nations Resolutions, adopted and accepted by UN. Therefore, all so called "palestinians" must be relocated there. Enough stealing Israel land. Britain and Jordan must compensate Israel for stolen land and natural resources.
22. zionism will outlive the Arab hatred of Jews
Sam ,   usa   (05.18.10)
23. #10 Said
EZ   (05.18.10)
Said, it is good that you agree that Jews have a national right to self-determination as any nation does. However, your statement that Zionism required that Arabs be dispossessed is not correct. There were several reasonable options for compromise: Peel Commission in 1937 and UN Partition in 1947 are 2 examples. The Arabs rejected compromise and opened war and the outcome was decided by war. Now we are back to the possibility of compromise which, I think, is a good thing since war is never good. But to pretend that the Arabs in Palestine were always victims is historically incorrect. Notice that compromise is possible now with Israel having the military upper hand. Would it really be possible if the Arabs had won in 1948? or 67?
24. #10
Jrodstein ,   Basalt, Colorado   (05.18.10)
the beautiful bride was was married to another man but she choose to run away and got divorced! now she has a much better and smarter marriage.
25. #2 dangerous words
(05.18.10)
In the Koran is written that Jews received the land. You cannot negate the truth that is written. 1.6 billion people demand you withdraw your insult.
26. #1, #2, #8, #10 learn your own history
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (05.18.10)
Before the First World War, Israel had a tiny population including Jews, Christians (Arabs and Europeans), Druze, Bedouins and Turks. That is why the nations of the world gave the British the mandate to reestablish Israel as a sovereign country. The British broke international law and by 1922 prevented Jewish immigration while actively importing illegal Muslim Arab immigrants from Lebanon, Syria and Iraq. Most of the "Palestinians" are not a nation of any kind, but these colonists that the British imported. According to your leaders an Arab who moved from Iraq in 1947 and lived in Israel less than a year is a "Palestinian" How about a deal: we agree that a "Palestinian" is an Arab who lived in Israel since before 1922 (I am not even suggesting 2000 years like #2) and send all the fake Palestinians back to their homelands. Do you agree?
27. divorce said
elimelech ,   shomron   (05.18.10)
no problem said - let them get divorced and let the arabs go to their true home in Palestinian Jordan - which if you are going bakc in tiume is what the British and others recommended as the fair solution to the arab occupiers of jewish israel
28. Facile article
London man ,   London UK   (05.18.10)
Mr Calic's article is really something that could have been written by an indoctrinated 12 year old. Of course critics of Zionism have no problem with some other national movements, as not every national movement posits its success upon the dispossession of the indigenous inhabitants of a territory. To list Chinese nationalism, or Italian nationalism in the same breathe as Zionism shows that the author has very little grasp of the ramifications of political Zionism. Herzel's thoughts about a Judenstadt in Palestine were set out at a time when the concept of equal rights did not exist and almost all European nations were busy subjugating other races in their hurry to build empire. Mr Calic's hypothetical words of a Muslim "we can accept co-existence with Jews, as long as they are the minority" is really a figment of his imagination. Co-existence can be accepted provided people stop expropriating property and kicking other ethnic groups off their land and out of their homes. As for the full civil rights which Calic ascribes to the 20% Arab minority in Israel - absolute garbage. Did he ever speak with an "Israeli Arab"? Israel's Arabs are now obliged to study the holocaust, but are Israel's Jewish citizens obliged to study or even accept the concept of the Nakba? The article, on the whole, reads like a school essay for the local Zionist federation. Journalism? Hasbara? Propaganda? I wouldn't honour this piece of nonsense with any title at all.
29. to #10: You are the one that doesn't recognize the facts
(05.18.10)
you say : "in creating their homeland they had to dispossess a large number of Arabs from their land" is a false statement and is a result of dozens of years of propaganda and the inability of the Arabs to admit their mistake. The fact is that when Zionism started the land was very thinly populated and was under Turkish rule. Any account of foreign travelers from the 19th century tells the same story - of a scarcely populated, barren land. In this scarcely populated land there was a majority of Arabs and a minority of jews that kept a jewish presence in the land for thousands of years. The first Zionists that came in the late 19th century didn't dispossess anyone from their homes. They bought the lands they settled on, and on empty lands that were so available because, again, most of the land was unpopulated. They settled in areas that the Arabs didn't want to live in were there were swamps and Malaria and they dried the swamps and built settlements. Not one single Arab was dispossessed, and anyone saying differently is an outright liar. The problems for the Arabs begun when they, who lived on this land without any national aspiration (and that's a fact) became worried and jealous of the national movement of the jews. Of the fact that the jews started to come in big numbers to the land, with an energy and purpose to build this land out of nothing and to create a homeland for themselves here. NOT BY DISPOSSESSING THE ARABS, but by building their own villages and towns. The Arabs started to attack the jews not because the jews dispossessed them, but because they wanted to disrupt the creation of a jewish state. And not because someone took their homes but because they didn't want a jewish presence anywhere in this land. It was only when the Arabs started wars against the jews that the jews fought back and fought back well. Many Arabs ran away from their homes when the jews advanced out of fear or because their leaders told them to run away. War is an unpleasant thing and don't forget you started it. The Arabs were no angels and they killed and massacred jews whenever and however they could, but fortunately for us, we prevailed. The whole issue of refugees, to remind you, started after 1948 - a war that the Arabs started with the aim to destroy the Jewish state. It's a pity that the Arabs continue to teach their children false narrative, and don't face up to their mistakes.
30. Wrong comparisons
berlonski ,   berlin   (05.18.10)
The article is founded on wrong comparisons: the zionist idea is NOT comparable to the idea of the greek or mexican or italian or whatever idea of a nation. Because the 2% non-orthodox in Greece and the 11% non-catholic in Mexico are included in the national idea of their country. Zionism is different - from the ouset it excludes the 25% non-jews in Israel from the national idea. That's why traditional and contemorary zionism never will be fully compatible with democracy - as long it does not open up for non-jews.
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