Jewish Scene  Rivkah Lubitch
Civil disobedience
Rivka Lubitch
Published: 24.05.10, 09:08
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16 Talkbacks for this article
1. Kol Hakavod
David C ,   Jerusalem-Israel   (05.24.10)
I would do the same! I can not believe that as a Tax payer citizen i can not chose how to live my life or how to get married and all the roads lead me to a rabbinical court. I would rather stay in a common law relation...
2. Young people are saying enough.....
Eliyahu Konn ,   Yrushalayim   (05.24.10)
They have been saying enough for years. Knowledge of logic, mathematics, and science which is how this planet exists will drive the thinking people away from superstition and fairy tales. When Torah is taught logically again they will respond to it, but not before.
3. superstition trumps legislation
izzy d   (05.24.10)
oooh they got married according to halacha but in a way that violated the state laws. the term "civil disobedience" indicates violance met with pacifism. here its a violation of state mandated laws in favour of made up laws. lady you are so eager to post anything that goes against the rabinical "establishment" that you dont mind proving yourself to be illogical in the proccess. go hug a god or somthing.
joyce ,   Israel   (05.24.10)
So.......Weird!!!!!!! And yet so..........obvious!!!!!!
5. this makes no sense
Shachar Ha'amim ,   Upper El Khader, PAL   (05.24.10)
a couple who gets a marriage license abroad can take that to the Interior Ministry and be registered as married. Doing what they did with the New Family organization is simply being provocative for the sake of being provocative. It in no way obviates the need to go to the rabbinate for a divorce (or at least a divorce confirmation) as by law the rabbinate has jurisdiction over divorce proceedings for Jews - even if they are married civily and not halachically (see Aron Barak's decision on Kiddushei D'Bnei Noach).
cristian ,   arg   (05.24.10)
he that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory but he that seeketh his glory that sent him the same is true and no unrighteousness is in him did not moses give you the torah and yet none of you keepeth the torah? why go ye about to kill me? moses therefore gave unto you circumcision(not because it is of moses but of the fathers) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man if a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision that the torah of moses should not be broken are ye angry at me because i have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day? judge not according to the appearance but judge righteous judgment,ye both know me and ye know whence i am and i am not come of myself but he that sent me is true whom ye know not but i know him for i am from him and he hath sent me,ye are from beneath i am from above ye are of this world i am not of this world i said therefore unto you that ye shall die in your sins for if ye believe not that i am he ye shall die in your sins,i know that ye are avraham´s seed but ye seek to kill me because my word hath no place in you if ye were avraham´s children ye would do the works of avraham but now ye seek to kill me a man that hath told you the truth if God were your father you would love me for i proceeded forth and came from God neither came i of myself but he sent me,if i honour myself my honour is nothing but i know him and if i should say i know him not i shall be a liar like unto you but i know him and keep his saying your father avraham rejoiced to see my day and he saw it and was glad verily verily i say unto you before avraham was i am,i say unto you except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die it abideth alone but if it die it bringeth forth much fruit if any man serve me let him follow me and where i am there shall also my servant be if any man serve me him will my fether honour now is the judgment of this world now shall satan the prince of this world be cast out and i if i be lifted up from the earth will draw all men unto me,he that believeth on me believeth not on me but on him that sent me and he that seeth me seeth him that sent me i am come a light into the world that whosoever beliveth on me should not abide in darkness for i have not spoken of myself but the father which sent me he gave me a commadment what i should say and what i should speak and i know that his commadment is life everlasting whatsoever i speak therefore even as the father said unto me so i speak ,a new commadment i give unto you that ye love one another as i have loved you that ye also love one another by this shall all men know that ye are my disciples if ye have love one to another,i am the way the truth and the life no man cometh unto the father but by me if ye had known me ye should have known my father also and from henceforth ye know him and have seen him and now i have told you before it come to pass that when it is come to pass ye might believe hereafter i will not talk much with you for satan the prince of this world cometh and hath nothing in me but that the world may know that i love the father and as the father gave me commadment even so i do
7. non-Rabbanut Marriage
Avrem'mele ,   Chicago, IL   (05.24.10)
All too easily does the author gloss over the (altered) agreement by the Center for Womens' Jusice...."that the marriage can be declared void if necessary". Imagination by the reader is not finite. QUESTION: Doesn't this insinuate that the parties are not completely whole-hearted about their nuptials when they enter into chuppa v'kidushin with such an 'escape-clause'? In essence such a 'conditional' marriage clause has for generations been the bone of contention between the halachic revisionists and halachic traditionalists even outside of the State of Israel and the Rabbanut m'taam. It has nothing to do directly with the Rabbanut.
8. Pathetic
jeremy ,   Jerusalem   (05.25.10)
Women who have nothing better to do than find ways to be the ones wearing the pants in the family. I can only imagine the wimp of a husband the author Rivka Lubitch has. What's really behind all this? Women who do not want to be at the effect of the Rabbinate. Don't want to find themselves ready for a divorce and their husband does not want to give them a get. That is why the clause making the marriage null and void is there. Rivka may be a good mother (I have no proof), but she can't be a good wife. For women who cannot commit their lives to being the best Jewish wife they can be, this escape clause is the answer. This is not the way of the Torah, and Rivki can look the part of a religious woman, but I believe she is a fraud. Only looking out for herself, and doing everything she can to "enable" as many women as she can, by making sure their marriage is a fraud to begin with. Commitment? That's for foolish women. Letting your husband feel like he is the head of the house? Only sick women would ever do this. When the Torah states that it is forbidden for women to wear a man's clothes, this is what is means. Acting liking a man is the same as wearing his clothes. (Even if you have a dress on). Just look at the Women In Black. These mutants are what Rivki hopes to be some day.
9. Rivka Lubitch - Civil Marriage
SarahLeah Lawent ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (05.25.10)
BS"D First, Ms. Lubitch is nothing "rabbinic" - she is a woman. And for her to advertise that people are rebelling against the Rabbonim, is tantamount to promoting it - regardless of her stating that she isn't "for" it. If she wanted to bring up the issue, she would have written an article about the issue - that it is one coming up. She is promoting rebelling against the Rabbinic authorities. Previously, I would have given credence to the Ctr for Women's Justice. Now - I would not give 2 pence for it. That she even prints in a venue like YNet shows her lack of yiras shamayim, her lack of respect for Torah and Torah scholar and several other lacks. Her "final" word means bupkis - she has already done damage.
10. To SarahLeah Lawent: go see for yourself
Brian Cohen ,   Judean Peoples Front   (05.25.10)
Nothing like a little motzi shem ra in your talkback to prove your point, huh? It's not Lubitch who has done any damage, but rather a dysfunctional rabbanut that allows a fairly perverted form of "halacha" in the rabbinic courts. I'm not sure that SarahLeah Lawent has been in the Beit Din in Jerusalem - I have, and yuck, it is not a pretty site nor is it an experience that gives Jews a good feeling about who is running things. Rather than bash Lubitch, SarahLeah Lawent should hop on the bus and go visit the court for herself. Go sit outside and watch the distraught women who go there, and see the "yichus" they get from the men who run the place. When I asked his opinion about the Jerusalem Beit Din, a very respected rabbi here in Judea recommended that Jerusalemites change their address so that their teudat zehut would allow them to go anywhere else for Jewish justice. However, don't take it from me or from Lawent - one should go judge for their own. And this is not the first case of religious couples wanting to avoid the rabbanut. It's been in the Hebrew press for years.
cristian ,   arg   (05.26.10)
john the son of zacharias came into all the country about jordan preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins as it is written in the torah of isaiah the prophet saying the voice of one crying in the wilderness prepare ye the way of the lord make his path straight "every valley shall be filled and every mountain and hill shall be brought low and the crooked shall be made straight and the rough ways shall be made smooth and all flesh shall see the salvation of God,o generation of vipers who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance and begin not to say within yourself we have avraham to our father for i say unto you that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto avraham and now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire,he that hath two coast let him impart to him that hath none and he that hath meat let him do likewise,you shall do exact no more than that which is appointed you,do violence to no man,neither accuse any falsely and be content with your wages,i indeed baptize you with water but one mightier than i cometh the latchet of whose shoes i am not worthy to unloose he shall baptize you with the holy ghost and with fire whose fan is in his hand and he will throughly purge his floor and will gather the wheat into his garner but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable",the messiah said "woe unto thee chorazin! woe unto thee bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in tyre and sidon which have been done in you they had a great while ago repented sitting in sackcloth and ashes but it shall be more tolerable for tyre and sidon at the judgment than for you and thou capernaum which art exalted to heaven shalt be thrust down to hell,he that heareth you heareth me and he that despiseth you despiseth me and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me,this is an evil generation they seek a sign and there shall no sign be given it but the sign of jonas the prophet,for as jonas was a sign unto the ninevites so shall also the son of man be to this generation,the queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of solomon and behold a greater than solomon is here,the men of nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation and shall condemn it for they repented at the preaching of jonas and behold a greater than jones is here",the messiah said about zion"i tell you that if these should hold their peace the stones would inmediately cry out,if thou hadst known even thou at least in this day the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes,for the days shall come upon thee that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee and compass thee round and keep thee in on every side,and shall lay thee even with the ground,and thy children within thee,and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation",and as some spake of the temple,how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts,the messiah said "as for these things which ye behold,the days will come in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another,that shall not be thrown down,in your patience possess ye your souls,for these be the days of vengeance that all things which are written may be fulfilled,zion shall be trodden down of the gentiles until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled and take heed to yourself,lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting and drunkenness and cares of this life and so that day come upon you unawares for as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth"
12. To Jeremy #8
Israeli grandma   (05.26.10)
Casting aspersions on Rifka Lubitch is not contributing to the discussion. The Israel rabbinate has got too much control over the public in personal matters. This is not a healthy institution at the present time, and the divorce courts are an example, where some rabbis are wise and considerate of the applicants situation and others are rigid and punishing. Also Jeremy does not seem to take into account that the man in a marriage may well want to dissolve the partnership. Why does he assume that its always the womens problem.
13. Israeli Grandma
jeremy ,   jerusalem   (05.26.10)
The article is not about what can be done to make the Rabbinate a better place. It's about ways to give women more leverage in a marriage. Ways for a woman to get a divorce by going around the Rabbinate. The one in Jerusalem may be worse than others, but in many places it is very accommodating, helpful and efficient. But again, Rivki is not concerned with these places either. I stand by my original remarks. Grandpa Jeremy
14. When will the will the authorities wake up
Vardina   (05.27.10)
15. What's your point?
Vardina   (05.27.10)
16. We Salute Them
HGlaser ,   Herzliya, Israel   (07.18.10)
We are also creating an act of civil disobedience. We are observant Jews who weren't Jewish enough for the Rabbanut. We're anglo and were told our religious papers, stamped by the bet-din in our home countries, were not Jewish enough. How dare they tell me I'm not Jewish enough. We'd rather give our money BACK to Eastern European than give it to a corrupted entity like the Rabbanut.
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