Predictable Israeli fiasco
Avi Trengo
Published: 31.05.10, 18:05
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59 Talkbacks for this article
1. Quit the hand-wringing.
Joey Rose ,   Portland   (05.31.10)
The flippin' Turkeys will think twice before pulling that stunt again.
2. another anti-Israel Israeli - let him bite the dust
marlene ,   Philadelphia, USA   (05.31.10)
There'll be plenty of avi trengos coming out of the woodwork. JUST IGNORE THEM! They obviously know nothing and their mouths move without connecting to their brains. ISRAEL DID THE RIGHT THING - just like any self-respecting, sovereign democratic country would have and should have done - period.
3. Complete 100% common sense.
Danny   (05.31.10)
Amazing how Israel manages to use enough force to get condemned whilst not using enough to get the job done. Also, we left 5 years ago why do we have anything to do with them whatsoever. Seal the border, kill anyone who approaches.
4. You Cannot Have It Both Ways Barak
Dav Lev ,   Burbank. CAUSA   (05.31.10)
The author is dead right. I foresaw this happening after reading his other article about disengaging. What exactly does Israel want or expect? Barak first attempted to reduce fuel to Hamastan which bounced back in his face. He allows 100 trucks/day into the Strip at the last moment to defuse criticsm, again a bandaid. What about Egypt's border? Why give Israel the onus of the humanitarian aid? It should have allowed the flotilla through..then sealed the border with itself, retaliating/or aggressively stopping future Hamas attacks (which it can do). Now, all hell is breaking out., another pr disaster for the Jewish state. It cannot have it both ways, which it wants. Either..or get off the pot. From Chomsky to Arab MKs, to Salah, to Beilin, to proximity talks..it is losing big time. Now it has to deal with Turkey. What if Turkey/Iran send warships next time? Would Israel use it's missile boats and F15Is? What is Barak thinking? Recall he almost gave the W. Bk and E Jerusalem to Arafat.
5. Bravo!
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (05.31.10)
Avi Trengo is right. Barak is an incompetent whose every decision leads to failure. Barak led Israel's retreat from Lebanon and betrayal of SLA, allowing Hezbolla to take over Lebanon. Barak let IDF soldier Madhat Yussuf die, damaging the bond with the Bedouins of Israel. Barak surrendered to Arafat's demands, causing Arafat to start the Second Oslo War which raged until stopped by Sharon's Right wing government. During the Second Oslo War, Barak killed 12 Arab Israelis, but blamed the police. Barak managed to turn "Cast Lead", a highly successful defensive operation into a PR disaster where Israel is accused of war crimes. The sooner Barak goes, the better.
6. Before his long overdue dissmissal Barak should be made to..
Babs ,   Israel   (05.31.10)
run a gauntlet through an angry mob wielding metal bars, bats, chairs, stun grenades etc, etc to atone for his ignorance and psychotic planning of this humilating fiasco he caused to Israel's finest commandos. Pray for the injured shayetet heroes.
7. Yes lets clean up the mess and start by
shadoil ,   Jerusalem   (05.31.10)
firing Ehud Barak. Then apologize. Give out our side of the story and wait for things to cool down. Its the only way out of this mess. A little humility for a move gone awry.
8. Absurd reasoning
Marcella   (05.31.10)
Gaza is Jewish territory, as per the League of Nations Agreement. The Israeli government failed the Israeli people by walking out of Gaza and fails every day when it does not reverse that fatal act. Gaza must be annexed and incorporated into the state of Israel. The population must abide by the law of the country. If not they can be given the choice of very long term imprisonment or exile. Same goes for Judea and Samaria. By disengaging from Gaza, and soon from the West Bank, Israel is creating sources of permanent violence against the Jews of Israel and a continuous PR disaster. The author's proposal for "A final and real disengagement from the Gaza Strip" is worse than irresponsible. It is suicidal. The vacuum left by Israel after the Disengagement led to the flourishing of an army of terror. A final renunciation of Israeli control over their borders will lead to Iran's full takeover and certain war against Israel. There should not be a blockade against Gaza. Instead, there should be full annexation by Israel. And judging by the kind of violence and oppression taking place in Gaza these days, those not involved in the terror business would rather live as residents of Israel than in a violent, oppressive, dysfunctional and corrupt society such as the one ruled by Hamas.
9. Avi, looks like you're correct...
Rafi ,   US   (05.31.10)
...the Netanyahu govt had plenty of time to plan for this... Obviously, any direct contact between IDF forces and the "activists" should have been avoided at all costs. As you say, simply disabling the ships from a distance, perhaps thru underwater action, should have been the 1st step. Then let the ships drift to Lebanon or wherever, out of Israel's hair. Why the need to directly subdue them? This was not the Entebbe raid... rather it should have been a simple disabling or preventive action. Not well planned or handled!
10. to Marlene #2
Joe ,   Israel   (05.31.10)
Did you even read the article? This guy Trengo is obviously a very pro-Israel Israeli. Maybe you need to read it again.
11. Damage control won't work this time
Ali ,   E.Jerusalem   (05.31.10)
It's sad to see lives lost be it Muslims, Christens or Jewish. None the less the Palestinians are getting wiser by not harming Israeli civilians and this is good for the Palestinians. The whole thing about the founding of Israel is marred by defects under the so called "God's promised land" and so "historical rights". This defect will, one day, re correct itself by either sharing the land between Jews and Muslims or Israel will completely disappear No amount of power will safeguard nations going back to the Romans, Greeks, crusaders and Muslims too. The same goes for Jews despite the claim of Jewish fanatics' of God protecting Israel. God didn't protect it for over 2000 years and the God didn't protect Muslim for many years. No amount of power will safeguard nations, Justice for all only safeguards nations.
12. Avi Trengo is half right, half wrong
Avi ,   Geneva   (05.31.10)
Article is quite right in judging that Ehud Barak messed up this operation, technically, due to his usual weakness. But article is dead wrong in calling for opening of Gaza sea border to international traffic - that would be suicidal for Israel.
13. Serial failure
G.S. ,   USA   (05.31.10)
Ehud Barak has been leading Israel from one debacle to another for years. I have been following Israeli politics for long enough to know that there are not many things Israelis can agree on, but surely everyone from left to right can agree that Barak has been a serial failure and must go.
14. This guy is a bit of a moron, isn't he?
Len ,   NYC   (05.31.10)
Where does Ynet find these clowns?
15. it depends on if Barak had his binoculars covers on or off!
Seular Beast   (05.31.10)
16. i agree
daniel ,   israel   (05.31.10)
fact is, if israel could've done this with these methods outlined above, and not storming the ship in the wee hours of the night, the situation could've been different. while i agree that israel had to stop the boats, it holds true that this will be a major blunder on israel's part for year to come, and something we might have to pay for dearly.
17. Agree & Disagree
Mina ,   Haifa   (05.31.10)
Yes, a few heads should roll at the top, for putting our dear, brave young soldiers at such deadly risk & subjecting them ill equipped to a lynch which could have ended much worse. No, the blokcade on Gaza has nothing to do with what those brutal mobs on that ship have attempted to do. They would have known that Israel allows enough food & humanitarian aid into Gaza every day. Finally, Israel must treat this situation as a declaration of war on us, which it was.
18. The Author Is A Better Tactician Than E. Barak
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (05.31.10)
Our author should have planned this mission. To wit: "First, a clear warning in English: Turn back or we shall fire. Next, A shot across the bow – a last warning to show the seriousness of our intentions. Finally, firing at the vessel’s propeller, in a bid to paralyze the ship’s sailing and steering capabilities. Only then, and only after allowing the ship to be tossed from side to side under the sun, the time would come for taking over the vessel using massive force: Clearing away the decks using water hoses, splashing oil on its windows, ramming into the vessel, and finally staging the takeover." He is 100% correct. Ehud Barak must take direct responsibility for botching this mission up terribly and be tried for extreme incompetence. What an idiot Barak and all those who planned and commanded this mission are!
ANNA ,   ISRAEL   (05.31.10)
Funny how things have not yet been cleared and investigated yet....and, still, Israel will always be guilty, won't it??? So many little reporters, Israel haters, Jew haters...waiting for the chance to jump in and attack Israel without all the correct information!! I live in Israel and these people are amazing in every way! Do you really think Israel WANTS things like this to happen??? What would you do if you were surrounded by enemies everywhere?? Do u know what Arabs are like and the kind of Middle age society they live in?? Do you know what these people have been through along history??? You are a juror condeming WITHOUT a trial and investigation. What kind of a human being does that make YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
20. I thought Paintball guns were for Barmitzvah Parties
Alan ,   SA   (05.31.10)
21. Great Analysis !
Yossef ,   Rehovot, Israel   (05.31.10)
I agree word for word to this analysis. Barak must go and Ashkenazi takes its place. And let's disengage completely from Gaza. I cannot agree more with Avi Trengo.
22. Go to your time piece collection
Lou Gelehrter ,   Jerusalem   (05.31.10)
It was highly predictable the outcome of this operation. People with heads on their shoulders understand that the stupid elephant played again games in a Crystals Shop. The fact that the military, and first of all the defense minister did not understand the catastrophic political result of this operation around the world and in Israel, shows that we can not trust the government in defending the well being of the people in this country. There is no other solution for the moment but to ask the resignation of those unbelievable blind people in power, responsible for the wrong decisions. Ehud Barack should go first and immediately.
23. but it didn't
R ,   Canada   (05.31.10)
Except it did it in international waters where it is illegal. So it did the wrong thing. =D
24. Barak must accept responsibility and resign immediately
Tony   (05.31.10)
and that's for starters.
25. Predictable Israeli Fiasco
Jason Alster ,   Zichron Yacov Israel   (05.31.10)
What did anyone expect from Barak who also made a fiasco leaving Lebanon and setting the ground for the attack by Hizbullah in 2006. Lieberman says it right, the flotilla was a breech of Israeli sovergn powers. Why didn't Barak expect anything different from Turkish nationals who still do not admit to the Armenian massacre and by the way sent troops into another country , Iraq, to fight Kurds, ever while American troops are there? . Why did he send Israeli soldiers into a pack of wolves on the ships. Did he expect them pro - terrorists supporters , to accept the soldiers with coffee? How does he claim the raid on the ship was non-military and expected differently, They were soldiers weren't they? I hope Israel got a sobering view about what many in the world think of her , and after seeing her soldiers beaten up, next time defend herself in an unashamed way and not play patty cakes with bad people.
26. arrogance
Michael ,   Haifa   (05.31.10)
Avi Trengo is right about one thing...Our national trait of arrogance exemplified both by our incompetent leaders and the vast majority of the talkbackers here
27. Agreed! Thought the Same About Barak!
Josh Ebert ,   CHicago, IL   (05.31.10)
Barak is a complete failure! He has always been one and I agree fully with the author. Why does Netanyahu keep him there when there is a real qualified DM with Boogie Yaalon? Barak should be Foreign Minister and as a leftie he gets along well with the EU and Obama.
28. right thin??
Deniz ,   istanbul   (05.31.10)
hmm- how is boarding a ship with military troops on international water doing the right thing? Also according to the international law , the boarded ship has the right to defend itself by any means...dont be ignorant read a little bit more. When it comes to the boarding- really Israel i thought you were more clever than this...you just handed out the best opportunity for diplomatic points on this one.. The turks were your best friends for ages- were the ONLY nation taking you under the wings when Europe was slaughtering jews during dark ages in 15th century- you (government) should have more brains than this....sad.. very sad-
29. #8, the point the author is making
Danny   (05.31.10)
is that Israel currently has the worst of both worlds, it doesn't have control of the Strip but it has ALL the responsibility as if it has.
30. Author at least partly right...
PK ,   Hong Kong   (05.31.10)
By the time I got to the end of the article I was actually confused as to where this guy stands - left, right or center. As to his point of Barak screwing this up, not to mention previous screwups/half measures, I agree wholeheartedly that he should be fired. In fact, he never should have been put there in the first place (after having running away from Leb like a thief in the night). There was no reason for troops to board, or at least not in the way it was done. (so far, so good for the author) Israel was absolutely right in stopping the ships. Part of the problem (IMHO) is that there was ambiguity in Israel's previous policy. From my understanding, in the past some of the boats were allowed in, why? Is Israel familiar with the term consistency!?! ...but then he calls for ending the blockade "A final and real disengagement from the Gaza Strip". Unless, he plans on sawing Gaza off and setting it afloat, he's a fool. This is just as foolish as abandoning the Philly route (for the record, I supported the repatriation of the settlers, but not of giving up control of the Gaza/Egypt border!). One needn't be a genius to figure out that the smuggling of war material would increase exponentially. As to those who want to "keep" Gaza, you're out of your mind. There is no way you can keep the real estate and not have to deal with the population! Please deal in reality, not wishful thinking. It's a damn shame that Begin(?) didn't refuse the deal with Eqypt unless they "took back" Gaza along with the Sinai. The sad truth is that there is no "good" solution to "the situation". It's a matter of trying to find the least worst. As a realist, and one which describes my position as "rational right", I support a two-state solution, but I add the proviso "in theory". Unless the other side truly accepts, and not just mouths acceptance, there can be no two-state solution. Until the other side comes to their senses, Israel simply has to hang tough and try not to shoot itself in the foot. It's simply not possible to run away from Gaza, the WB or the region.
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