Losing our ability to think
Emmanuel Rosen
Published: 14.06.10, 11:44
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34 Talkbacks for this article
1. I think there is a different explanation...
Ariel   (06.14.10)
Emmanuel Rozen, one of the most serious and thorough journalists in Israel, falls in a basic logic mishap. He sustains that the Israeli society speakout in polarised views, ergo through a black-white glass, and then hey are loosing their capacity to see gray. The case is that he sees only the press news and the public responses; As the press looks mainly for selling headlines and news that generate a strong affective reaction, he is surprised by the emotional talkbacks. I would like to give him the credit that he does not mean that he is disappointed that his own black-white personal views are unpopular in his eyes, and that is why he wrote this opinion. Believe me that difference of opinion still exist in this country, but the immunity from criticism that some institutions like the press or judges enjoyed in the past has gone for ever and will not return.
2. Rosen - the Rot started with the Idiot Rabin & his Oslo
Tomer ,   Herzeliya   (06.14.10)
It was then that leftwing Journalists like yourself forgot impartiallity and became followers of the Peace Messaiah Rabin. 1500 Dead Israelis later and 1 failed itnatkut we are still suffering...
3. An excellent start to recover thinking is
Keren ,   IL-BR   (06.14.10)
to put the TV in the bin(literally)and go back to books and Internet. TV is a poison that dulls minds and gather adepts to ideologies that are strange to our souls.
4. who does he think he is?
john ,   tel-aviv   (06.14.10)
A nobody of local brew who all of sudden considers himself a voice of reason and a conscience of nation? He drinks a ber with a minsiter and ears all the iiner gossi? That's not laudable. Zoabi is just a small-time provocateur and Bibi... oh yes,of course, it doesn't have to do anything with reason, politics etc., it's just to show how bad Bibi is, right? Besides Mr Rosen - this is a silly pathetic article, like - look I just wantd to have abeer with me mate, and look what happened. Is this journalism?
5. Would you like some whine with your cheese?
Terry ,   Eilat - Israel   (06.14.10)
Is this Eitan Haber's brother? What is this, Ynet's loser of the day contest? Listen, Mr whatever-your- name- is (I've forgotten already), a great many people are simply sick & tired of all the liberal/leftist failures that people like you have caused us. You belong to a self-appointed elite with zero common sense, your view of the world is upside-down & backwards. The sad truth is that you're all experts at nothing except BS. You've built careers out of BS. You're just aggravated that no one listens to you anymore. Do you know how I see you? You're a European wannabee, you've internalized an outsider's view of us - and by us, I mean the vast majority of Israelis. We may all have very different opinions on many issues but we know what side we're on. You don't.
6. mr. Rosen
guest ,   the netherlands   (06.14.10)
Wow, i totally agree! Life is not black and white, let's not forget that we are all human beings and not perfect. Let's agree to disagree. The left and the right has the same goal eventually: peace.
7. I GOT YOUR POINT, Emanuel....but....
Israeli 2   (06.14.10)
Right is right and Left is wrong and that will always be that way...it will never change. Left is never smart, progressive and part of the inteligentia. They just think that they are...and that is where they are wrong.
8. The " nouveau Jew, Israeli?"
joe   (06.14.10)
Emmanuel Rozen, I do agree with you, and how. Symptoms of our maladies? : lost trust in each other, entrenching oneself, hate the other, fear the other, unable to criticise, everyone a suspect, and more?. That Jewish minds are replaced by " tailbacks " is the proverbial " nail on the head ", and skillfully exploited by the arabs. These are facts on the ground. Where does it come from ?Only one accurate answer available; Our Govt. --- When a mass of say cheeps, buffalos, even geese are on the move, they instinctively follow a leader.--- Over the cliff, they all follow; into a rich grassland, they all follow and so on. sadly, our elected officials (some, most, I don't know) go into politics for reasons of their own. Embraced by many are: power, money, lavish lifestyle. while those who elected them - 25 / 30% live in poverty, squalor, while they jet around the world, indulge in luxurious hotels '/restaurants conducting business ,so they say, with OUR money. The people, their happiness, their welfare are on the list somewhere, never a priority. The " let them eat cake " syndrome prevails. They all try to emulate the American, the French, Italians, etc. instead of those who put their trust in them. When all these "distractions" are removed, their brains, with the void created, will be able to function properly, again. ! ! !
9. Mistake
John ,   Herzliya, Israel   (06.14.10)
I am constantly noticing one big mistake many of you are making. You are trying to act by standards of (let's say) "civilized" world, while you are surrounded by vicious neighbors who are light years away from your democracy and only wish to destroy you. And actually you are in war with them. In my opinion it cannot work.
10. Wealth and politics? Who is behind Yair Lapid?
tanya ,   tel aviv israel   (06.14.10)
11. More beer is the solution
Salma ,   Palestine   (06.14.10)
Because you are different in everything as you think, perhaps a drunken mind , will return the Jewish mind !
12. meanwhile....
oferdesade ,   israel   (06.14.10)
ok. 1. you're right 2. you're wrong 3. you're fooling yourself ... or us. 1. right. the jewish mind was put on hold here the very moment they started spelling the state her with capital letters.people thought ben gurion was god, then rabin was god, then god was god. it all inhibits the brain. 2. wrong. there's a big difference between dancing on rooftops when jews die and setting up inquiries (even if they're ... whatever) when arabs die. dont make the comparison. it's cheap. 3. delusion: if you think for a moment that capital/politics/(yes, even)press are not closely intertwined in israel (i'm understating of course). you're part of it, and if you werent you wouldnt be part of the consensus you make your living off. enjoy the bear
13. no context to what is going on?
Golan ,   Modiin   (06.14.10)
I can point to anything and claim the loss of proper debate... as if proper debate takes place in the media. For instance, voting abroad was shot down in the radio "debates" with only ONE view point "that only those who live here should be able to vote." without a counter argument made for those living "here" but just happen to be "there" on the day of the election... And as for the Navy commandos, I I never heard a debate in the media where the international laws concerning blockade were discussed. How many Israelis understand that it is legal to commandeer a ship on its way to a blockaded are in international waters after being warned? Israel needs a Fox News of a "talk radio" like in the US. All we have in Israel is the Left and the Lefter. This does not add much to debate.
14. the young man is right: gov't is an utter failure
Max   (06.14.10)
the fact they're not able to rescue this prisoner shows the bankruptcy of the boot-licking gentile-licking leftists, and i include fake-o Bibi in this list. The Israeli public should lynch these losers and get a real government.
15. Emmanuel Rosen is completely right
Joelle Natanel ,   Ramat Gan - Israel   (06.14.10)
Thanks to Emmanuel Rosen to express in a loud voice what I was thinking since a long time. Having been educated in France, I was taught not to accept any idea for granted and to put everything into question. Unfortunatly, I found it very difficult to use it here. As Emmanuel said we are supposed to choose a camp and to fit inside. No wonder if violence becomes the only way of expression and we could see a good example at the Knesset when Hanin Zoabi tried to speak. Let's hope that our leaders will understand that their behaviour is not helping in the general atmosphere in the country and that the values of democracy and the freedom of speech should be preserved at any price.
16. The Left is to blame for that either
Frank ,   Canada   (06.14.10)
Rosen may be right on this one but it does not happens without any reason. The Left used Bolshevik style methods to silent opponents to their 'peace' policies by defaming them. The Left destroyed rational debate and replace it by a permanent controversy about their idiotic policies.
17. #11 Salma
Avraham Goldsmith ,   Toronto , Canada   (06.14.10)
You miss as allways the point, it's meant to think as Russians .
18. Bravo!
berlonski ,   berlin   (06.14.10)
Or to put it with the words of Daniel Barenboim regarding today's public debate and political life in Israel: "Where has the jewish intelligence gone?"
19. Nothing wrong with talk-backs!
AJ - Raalte   (06.14.10)
At least in the talk-backs you sometimes read some really interesting facts and opinions, instead of all this Leftist garbage, Y-net deems fit for publication.
20. End talkbacks
The Last Zionist ,   Eilat   (06.14.10)
The web does not need talkbacks. Talkbacks are not democracy! Talkbacks in large are just a bunch of slobbering Neanderthals spouting their poison. A letters section, of well thought out Ideas will serve the public much better.
21. he's right... err.. left
bias of reasoning is the essence of paranoia, and paranoia is the determining factor in Israeli public response
22. sin'at chinam
daniel ,   israel   (06.14.10)
hatred is growing among us towards ourselves. why does this look like something from the past? we are a sad country, indeed unable to think for ourselves, painting ghosts and devils on the wall, and not being reasonable and cool headed.
23. I second #20 with the proviso
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (06.14.10)
Require that every contributor properly and publicly identify himself or herself and be responsible for their words. That would also cut deeply into the irresponsible and malicious slander that precludes serious and intelligent exchange of ideas and debate. It must be said that ynet and similar tabloids have a large share of culpability for this cesspool as they are quick to post irresponsible and malicious slander from anonymous posters to get things stirred up but habitually slow and resistant to post (too dry?) documented facts and mathematically precise reasoning.
24. Terry, you just proved Rosen right...
Ben   (06.14.10)
Your reaction is exactly what Rosen describes. All black and white. You don't even have an ounce of distance to realise that. This really makes me sick.
25. #17, dear! This is the first time I agree with Salma,
tanya ,   tel aviv israel   (06.14.10)
#11. She did not miss the point - more bear and wine - this is what left for the left. Proud ex- Russian, ex- Canadian (from Montreal, Cote St. Luc).
26. No thinking Jew could support the Two State Final Solution.
Chaim ,   Israel   (06.15.10)
The author makes some very good points. I am not afraid of Israel's enemies. I am, however, very afraid of the many mindless Jews who sit in our Knesset and who dominate Israel's media. It is axiomatic among so many of these people that Israel must create a hostile new "Palestine" in the very heart of our tiny nation. The issue of how Israel could possibly survive such a catastrophe is virtually never addressed. How could Israel possibly survive with an 8 mile waist? How could Israel possibly believe the hostile "Palestine" would be demilitarized? No thinking Jew could possibly support the monstrous Two State Final Solution. However, many support it simply because, as Hitler's "big lie" theory goes, it has been indoctrinated into them through endless repetition.
27. Reality check -- Anat Kam is truly a spy and should hand
AK   (06.15.10)
A soldier removing sensitive documents and peddling them to the press or whomever will take them is not a minor matter, its treason. Pollard is sitting in prison for far less and you will be hard pressed to find many American defenders clamoring for his release, even though he spied for a friend and documents he took had nothing to do with the US defense. Left created problems,like idiotic Oslo, which now threatens to destroy the country; they demonizes a whole group of Israelis, 'the settlers;' they willingly lambast Israel in the media, domestic and foreign and willingly side with the enemy who treathens to destroy the country and murder the Jews. Now, what exactly is the author complaining about? The elitist is upset that the little people don't like the way the elites show total disregard for little people when quassams fall on their children heads; he is irked by little people's patriotism -- how dare those silly little people support and cheer for israeli soldiers who were sent to risk their lives by an idiot Barak with paint ball guns and don't appreciate Arab 5 columnist with parliamentary immunity plotting against Israel. Israel is ready, I think, for their very own tea party.
28. 23 - your own 'proviso' would rule you out
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (06.15.10)
with regard to 'irresponsible and malicious slander that precludes serious and intelligent exchange of ideas and debate', you are one of the worst offenders, champ.
29. Perfect example: endles undocumented slander fm anonymous 28
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (06.15.10)
Provide specific and verbatim quotations. There aren't any. What were all those remarks you made about Rav Eliyahu again??? I have a long list of examples I can quote; but I'm persuaded virtually every reader knows--and dismisses--you.
30. 29 - anonymous? you indicate you know me very well
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (06.15.10)
mr obsession (who just showed he knows EXACTLY who is writing him) saves things i say from these public talkbacks, so your slandering me as a christian, your slandering arabs, your slandering minorities, your calling me names - go look it up in your files you have squirreled away. there's also google, so check it out - it's ALL there. you say "dismiss" me and yet keep documentation on me - not only a contradiction, but WEIRD.
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