By his post, #55, Matty just let us all know that he thinks the occupation is an evil Israeli ploy.... well guess what Matty, it was the Arabs that attacked Israel, and guess what, Israel won. Spoils of war. As far as I'm concerned, the Arabs can either live there in peace or leave to their beloved Arab democracies in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria and Lebanon from where there ancestors migrated into the Jewish homeland. To understand why there is no peace in the middle east, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/ajcnyc?msource=IMPACT34&tr=y&auid=6597139#p/u/1/-n6oT0mqKSg As for you Matty, just because some slanted new media says something happened, either doesn't mean it did OR you have to put it in context. Answer me this MATTY from Fairport, talk about bigots??????? It's you. Answer me this Matty, where were you when Hamas was raining rockets down on Israel for 8 years? Eh Matty? Or is your name Mohammed?

It's brilliant how you get back at those brainwashed zionists with the same logic that they use! As for the question: YES, you are war criminals.

1) Hamas/Hezbollah etc. use their own citizens. For me this means a huge difference between civilized government that cares about its own people and barbarians. 2) Using human shields might be wrong (depending on the exact circumstances), and you see Israeli court condemning such actions . 3) The laws of war you talk so much about are very idealistic, written at the end of WWII. Many claims were made that in the age of terror activities they are outdated because they don't allow the strong side to win and perpetuate the conflict. 4) How can you compare Holocaust or any serious genocide - extermination, purposeful famine, etc. (which for me are WAR CRIMES) to your "alleged" 1200 human shields?

But as for the towns of these peoples that Yahweh your God is giving you as an inheritance, you must not let anything that breathes remain alive. You shall annihilate them—the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites—just as Yahweh your God has commanded, so that they may not teach you to do all the abhorrent things that they do for their gods, and you thus sin against Yahweh your God (Deuteronomy 20.16-18).

northern ireland is soverign british territory end of, always was since king william of orange.we never ever went into the south of ireland,we never took war to the south of ireland even though we could have ,the people of northern end are staunch brits and needed protection from, yes terrorists because they wanted our country from us ,we never chased anyone out or occupied anyone .gibraltar british territory ! gibratairians had a referendum twice and refuse to become part of spain ,Gibraltairians are proud brits end of. The falklands soverign territory ! the people have no wish to become part of argentina . I dont know how you get the word resistors linked to the ira who were they resisting ,we were never in their country but they were in ours .On August 16, 1960, Cyprus attained independence after an agreement in Zürich and London between the United Kingdom, Greece and Turkey. The UK retained the two Sovereign Base Areas,brits took cyprus from the turks in 1925 when you could still claim territory through war.

how many homes have you bombed in Afghanistan and Iraq while you illegally occupy these countries

such a shame you didn't read all my post, because I was trying to make a few points - so the Irish were trying by all means to get you Brits out of their homeland (which you are still occupying), and they were terrorists even though they did not shoot rockets at you and blow themselves up among civilians. However, your troops felt well within their rights to shoot at unarmed demonstrators and bystanders, kill more teenagers than adults, and run over two protestors who were probably trying to get away. So far so good. So what you can do I can't do, because allegedely I steal and occupy. However, my courts try and convict those found guilty of offenses, you are still occupying Northern Ireland, Gilbraltar, the Falklands and who knows what else. While it takes you 38 bloody years to investigate the events and come up with some answers, and all your honourable PM can do is apologise. Oh, and by the way, what was that famous prison reserved for the IRA? Can you describe the conditions the prisoners were kept in? Don't lie now, I've just been to Ireland, heard all about it. Pray, share more of your knowledge and wisdom with us. And still you have the gall to preach to me, second-fiddled by frothy mouth Matty Groves. Nice pair you two make. Matty, take it easy, man, you might burst a vessel and hemorrhage, heaven forbid, and no-one else can entertain us visitors here as well as you do.

So you've never been to the South of Ireland. Then what is the Rock of Cashel? When was it destroyed and by whom? Also by invitation? And why was there a retirement home for British soldiers in Dublin? And why do the Irish speak English? Why do you Scots speak English? And the Welsh?

You guys get a big FAIL Neither of you has answered my question, why you accuse Israel of war crimes when the UK and US do far worse. Just think of the 80 civilians Obama massacred in the tanker attack, or the infant granddaughter of Abu al-Yazid Obama ordered executed? And while Israel is defending itself against Hamas, what exactly are you doing in Afghanistan? Please explain. Alistair. The IRA was trying to liberate Irish territory from the illegal English occupation where Catholics were treated like subhumans. Their attacks were in response to the brutal rapes and murders the RUC performed under cover of the "clean" British soldiers. The IRA mostly attacked military targets and usually warned people before bombs exploded, something the Arabs never do. And Maty, just saying things doesn't make them true. War crimes are pretty well defined and Israel doesn't do any, although Obama does. The "Neighbor protocol" is not a war crime or a "human shield", even if you call it that. It is a humane and safe way to protect civilian lives and property. You fail. Gaza is not under embargo. If something is lacking in Gaza it can be brought through Egypt. If you have a problem go complain to Mubarak. You fail. In any case, an embargo is not illegal "collective punishment" but an accepted way to handle a war. You fail.

the whole of Ireland was invaded by the English in the middle ages you then murdred millions of Irish in the potato famine and then ethnically cleansed thousands of Irish to the US and then you sent Protestant settlers to take their places as you did in the Falklandsand Gibralter so their votes in referunda are illegal and therefore irrelevant you stole all these countries of their indigenous inhabitants .The IRA are resisting the illegal occupation of their country i could go on but you just do not get it and never will

In true Ynut fashion you refuse to answer the two simple questions I twice asked you. You cannot answer these questions because you have no answers, you cannot hasbara why the IDF terrorized the citizens of Gaza nor can you justify why Israel deprived the children of Gaza such items as ‘toys’, ‘clothes’ and certain food types for four years. Actually most of my sources I cite in this thread are from Israeli news media (including Ynet). Are you really going to claim that the direct quote from Lieberman where he states quite clearly that the blockade of Gaza is not a “security measure” but rather a measure of ‘collective punishment’ is “slanted”?! Oh sorry I forgot you can’t answer simple questions. You see Michael Ynuts like you will always refuse to acknowledge the overwhelming amount of evidence that the IDF have committed war crimes simply because you cannot exist in a world where such things are true. You live in a rose-tinted cotton-wooled bubble of delusions where Israel and the IDF are always lily-white and blameless of any wrong. For a person who is so narrow-minded and delusions it is quite humorous that you would even attempt to claim you understand why there is no peace in the ME. As for your ‘questions’ which you pose at the end of your post, well Michael if you are refusing repeatedly answer my simple questions I have no reason to answer any of yours.

The more you give attention to Matty the more he answers-look how many posts are signed with his name! Please ignore him, do not open his posts. He thoroughly enjoys the attention and thrives on it. he is full of himself and full of something else,too. Temper tantrums are best ignored. Of course he is supporting yediot aharonot and such, which is one good thing.

Hamas ousted Fatah forces from Gaza in a bloody coup, throwing Fatah members off the roofs of buildings after shooting them in the knees. At least one Fatah member was sliced into steaks that were sent to his family. Since Gaza had been totally evacuated by Israel in the unilateral disengagement of 2005, Hamas currently (2009) rules Gaza as a de facto state government. It has used Gaza as a base for launching rocket attacks against Israel. The principles of the Hamas are stated in their Covenant or Charter, given in full below. Following are highlights. "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory). "The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. " "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

I am not saying the brits are innocent ,yes the brits have done some horrible stuff if you want to go to the middle ages we used to try people for witchcraft but since the second world war and the german holocaust of ethnic minoritys the world changed ,I understand Israel would have loved to have been around in the victorian error to capture land and win conquests but since your state was created laws have changed to prevent stuff like holocausts I know nearly all armys do stupid illegal stuff but we are talking about the IDF who profess to be the most moral army in the world and its just not true! we are not here to talk of brits or yanks or syrians we are holding the idf to their own standards and there is vids of war crimes all over youtube, why cant you accept the truth about the Idf who do commit crimes under U.S protection ? I dont hate you I dont hate anyone but I must speak out on behalf of my palestinian friends like Nour and if I knew any Iraqis or kurds or afgans I'd post for them too,I want the west out of the east including the brits and the illegal wars in Afganistan and Iraq,

...trying to stifle free speech? Are you against open discussion on such a serious matter as the war crimes that the IDF have committed? Do you think such crimes should be hushed up and swept under the carpet? How can I support Ynet if I can’t engage in discussions?

I speak for myself when I say: 1) Comparing Israel’s war crimes to those of the UK or US does not diminish the fact that Israel has committed war crimes nor does it diminish the severity of these Israeli war crimes. 2) The fact that you are comparing war crimes between Israel, UK and US is admitting that Israel has committed war crimes otherwise how can you make a comparison? Actually I have cited Israeli Gov docs, International reports, quotes from Lieberman and Israeli generals as well as a Israeli high court ruling all of which verify that Israel has committed war crimes. See post #34. Obviously you are clueless. Forcing a civilian to do the work of a trained soldier and/or endangering the life of that civilian is a war crime. Let me repeat that: putting civilians in deliberate harms way in a combat zone is a war crime no matter what the circumstances are. Maybe in your twisted opinion but thankfully the Israeli High Court disagrees as it ruled that this practice is *illegal* as it is *not* humane and safe way to protect civilian lives and property. Really? In that case why did the Israel ban the imports of children’s toys, certain foods, clothes and shoes from entering Gaza for 4 years? If “Gaza is not under embargo” why did the IDF stop the last flotilla from ‘breaking the blockade/embargo’? If “Gaza is not under embargo” why is the Israeli Gov now ‘easing the blockade/embargo’?? An embargo can only be put in place on grounds of “security” Lieberman has gone on the record as stating: "It can't be possible that Israel will allow massive amounts of merchandise to enter the Gaza Strip at the same time that Gilad is rotting in a Hamas cellar". Are you saying that Israel is at war with over a million civilians because Hamas kidnapped Gilad? If so you have to show proof that the entire population of Gaza (half of whom are children) are actually combatants actively engaged in an armed struggle with Israel? Can you do that?

<1) Hamas/Hezbollah etc. use their own citizens. For me this means a huge difference between civilized government that cares about its own people and barbarians.> LOL! Name one other “civilized government” which has an army that uses civilians as human shields?! There is no other example aside from Israel and the IDF. <2) Using human shields might be wrong (depending on the exact circumstances), and you see Israeli court condemning such actions> No there is no “might” in this, it is *totally illegal* to use *any* civilian as a human shield in *any* circumstance. International law is very clear about this <3) The laws of war you talk so much about are very idealistic, written at the end of WWII> The ‘laws of war’ are designed to make a clear distinction between ‘civilized nations’ and “barbarians” as you put it. If ‘civilized nations’ ignore/disregard these international laws then these ‘civilized nations’ become and are no different from these “barbarians”/terrorists. Is that what you want Ze'ev? For Israel to be a ‘terrorist state’? “Age of terror”? Actually people have been using ‘terror’ since the dawn of time, this is nothing new. <4) How can you compare Holocaust or any serious genocide - extermination, purposeful famine, etc. (which for me are WAR CRIMES)> If you take the time to read any of my posts you will see that I have never made a direct comparison between the Holocaust and any other form of war crimes. Nope there is nothing "alleged" about the IDF using civilians as human shields. The IDF *themselves* have admitted using civilians as human shields - nothing "alleged" about that. The Israeli High Court *acknowledged* this immoral practice when it ruled against this IDF practice - nothing "alleged" about that. The IDF is on the record as actually wanted the court ruling over turned so they could *continue* to use this practice (instead they just ignored the ruling) - nothing "alleged" about that. You can easily find photos and videos on the internet showing the IDF using civilians (including children) as human shields - nothing "alleged" about that. To sum up: 1) It is a war crime to use any civilian as a human shield. 2) Israel is the only “civilized” democratic nation in the world in which its so-called professional army uses innocent civilians as human shields. 3) The IDF admitted to this war crime and still practices this war crime to this day.

If I remember correctly it was you that first used the term “Ynut” to describe the rabid pro-Zionist nutters here. Thank you for such a simple yet perfectly apt term.

War Crimes for the IDF? In any military conflict, there are things that happen that should not happen. Are you in the IDF, did you serve in the IDF, do you have any idea what the instructions are like to IDF soldiers? I guess not. I do, and I was in a command position. Like I said, sometimes things do happen that should not; however in the IDF, it is extremely isolated, very rare. Let's take a look at what you are most likely speaking about. In Gaza, one situation was that there were terrorists in a building. Logic would have said that the building needs to be take out, as most armies would have done. The owner of the property however begged not to destroy it and he asked the IDF to let him in to convince the terrorists to leave. The IDF agreed. This became an incident of what is now being called using a human shield. How do I know the details? Does not matter, but believe me that is just want happened... Most incidents that make the news such as this never know the real details. In reality when incidents occur that should not have happened, the IDF does discipline and that does not make the news. Once again, you have no idea of reality, you are just plain anti Israel/anti semetic. Not saying that you are not smart and don't know how to speak, but same with B.H. Obama, and we see what he is doing and what his future will probably be.... (a 1 term president).

do not take my opinion but take the opinion of Lt.Col Richard Kemp ex British Army who commenting on the IDF,s campaign in Operation Cast Lead is among the most moral in the world Just enter his name and the IDF into youtube and let the Colnonel speak for himself i do not believe all the rubbish i wrote in my previous posts but i just responded in the same vain as to the rubbish lies incitement to hatred and violence and genocide that you put in your posts .You just believe what you want to believe and disregard the true facts you are not a peace activist but a war activist .I raq and Afghanistan are occupied because they cannot produce a civilised society and exported Jihad to the west Palestine is occupied because it to cannot produce a civilised society

i support free speech but not for terrorists or their supporters such as yourself because you are not interested in truth or justice or peace .YOU support groups dedicated to death and destruction who are homophobic and hate all non muslims and are thus rascist and fascists .and there can be no platform for rascists or fascits

Of course, there’s a few of those questions that pose problems for all these apologists of Israel’s dark regime, these supporters of the dark coalitions that control the state of Israel, your so-called Ynuts. Some of those other questions are: How does preventing all exports out of Gaza, causing 98% of industrial operations to shut down and 68% unemployment, stop weapons getting into Gaza? And, given that, as a result of the siege, 48% of children in Gaza under 5 years old suffer from anaemia and 10% are suffering from malnutrition, how does causing small children in Gaza to be sick and hungry keep small children in Israel more secure? Some supporters of the dark regime, such as Cynthia, claim that if the children are malnourished and sick it’s because their mothers are “uneducated”. Others, such as Gee, also claim the situation doesn’t exist, because it’s all lies told by organisations (like the Red Cross, World Food Programme, etc., etc., etc) that are “anti-Semitic racists”. Yet more others, such as Sarah B, will point to the suffering of innocent people in Burma and North Korea and explain that the children in Gaza are lucky by comparison. Many of them, such as Ilana and Rettenmoser, are simply idiots whose opinions should immediately be discounted out of hand, and all of them, from Arn to Zionist Forever, will tell you that, this has nothing to do with the dark regime committing war crimes and everything to do with the whole world being anti-Semites who’re hell-bent on denying Israel the right to defend itself, a world deluded by “Arab propaganda”. What hope for such as these, eh? What hope for a state where a brutish, racist thug like Liebermann is counted a leader?

Notice how the Zionists avoid your original charges of Israeli war crimes and try to divert the topic by claiming British soldiers have occasionally broken laws too. The siege of Gaza is a war crime because it is collective punishment. Using white phosphorus in residential areas is a war crime because it is disproportionate and likely to harm civilians. If you want a list of Cast Lead crimes, consult the Goldstone Report, which lists events which need investigation as possible war crimes. Most of these crimes were authorised by senior officers and political leaders. See the sleazy Zionists squirm!

I dont' need to answer your questions...in the same way that you do not address my questions about rockets raining down on Israel. You said so in your last comment.. you CAN"T answer the questions. The 8 years of rockets preceded anything Israel ever did. you are the nut here, Matty, not me. but of course, you would NEVER see it that way, so there is no point in discussing anything with you, because you are already the judge and executioner. you made up your mind a long time ago. IDIOT! No wonder the world is in trouble.

I am not obligated to explain the Israeli High Court's mistakes. You said the "neighbor procedure" is putting a civilian in harms way and using a human shield. This is false and you know it. No Arab was ever hurt by the "neighbor procedure" rather thousands of Arab lives were saved. You fail. You have not condemned the UK/US occupation of Afghanistan even though illegal, serves no Anglo interest and is tantamount to genocide. You fail. I believe that Israel has not committed war crimes, you disagree. I suggested we try to ascertain what is a war crime and what is not and that we start with the clear cases. The CIA informed Obama that they found Abu Al-yazid together with his wife, three daughters and infant granddaughter. Obama could have ordered that they track al-Yazid until he was alone or that the CIA send assassins. Instead, Obama gave the order to murder the innocents to demoralize al-Yazid's soldiers. Either declare that Obama is a war criminal who murdered an infant for no reason, or stop accusing Israel of war crimes. You fail. As for the "embargo": the Hamas is the government of Gaza. They explicitly write their purpose is the extermination of the Jews, even you cannot deny it. Under such conditions, Israel has no obligation to allow transport of anything to Gaza. and still, you have not answered the most important question: if the Gazans are in such dire need of "children's toys, food, clothes and shoes" why don't they get all these through the Egyptian border? You think that Mubarak is an Israeli puppet? You fail.

Always good to hear a sane voice and an opinion based on (actual!) reality.

Kemp has been through the mill in afganistan ,personally ,I believe he hates muslims ,surely you believe your own human rights orgs,Its not the idf leaflet drop that i am complaining about its white ph, collective punishment its the disproportionate shock and awe stuff its invading the westbank and taking land.did you see the blindfolded protestor being shot in the legs by the idf or the dancing singing palestinians .I dont know how to hate ! I feel sorry for the oppressors and the victims .If the shoe were on the other foot I,d be going crazy shouting for the Israelis.I just want israel to play fair within the law and if an accident happened with non combatants then i'd accept it.Too much happens to write it all as mistake. I cant hate based on religion because I have no religion of my own so i try to be humanist and moralistic .I cant understand why israelis dont understand all people are equal .As far as i'm concerned I am a palestinian I am a slave working in a sweatshop I am a father of a dead child killed by a bomb or a soldier I am the lowest human on earth but i'm equal to the queen of england or the US pres ,Do you understand whom I am know?

First of all, you avoided my point of Arabs treating each other as garbage (remember what Hamas did to Fatah in Gaza? Remember people falling from roofs?) This is an important point that you can't avoid with "LOL". Second, almost every aspect of morality in the world can't be presented in black and white (unless you are 13 years old, or do it on purpose against someone you dislike). The truth is that sticking to a "strict form" of international law and stating things like "IDF have THE WORST record of human rights abuses" (which is a lie) is indecent. Let's assume that a law in your country forbids to throw away bottles instead of recycling them. Let's assume that you throw bottles then and now. Does it make you a criminal? Is your crime comparable to a murder? Maybe we should start calling you a crook, or a Nazi? Or maybe you actually shouldn't have a right to exist? Israeli offenses of the international law even if exist, are minor compared to what their writers after WWII had in mind (30+ millions dead, systematic extermination of people, Nazism).