Opinion
Jewish criticism of Israel
Yoel Meltzer
Published: 11.07.10, 23:54
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59 Talkbacks for this article
1. Stand by or stay out
Raoul ,   New Zealand   (07.12.10)
I will find it difficult to make aliyah and restart my life in Israel, but my moral obligation is to stand 100% behind the Jewish State. Let us never forget that the world never changed its attitude towards us. In 2010 New Zealand, with a wannabe jewish "prime sinister" ,Kosher slaughter is forbidden. The minister signed off the law against his own advisors' recommendations. Tomorow the circumcision, the day after tomorow the kippah in public and who knows when they will apply other restrictions on Jews. We are taking about a little $$hit hole in the pacific with a big ego and a safe haven for cons and scammers. This can and will happen in the US and Europe too. Not if, but when this happens there will only be one safe place for us- Israel. ( SAS- NZ equivalent to Shin Beit please pay me a visit through my IP address. I am happy to show you how your 3 times washed prepacked salad is full of bugs)
2. Translation: Jews are special and deserve special treatment
Steve Benassi ,   Silver Bay, MN USA   (07.12.10)
3. Yoel, you can do better...
NJH   (07.12.10)
At best, an English 101 essay: shallow, awkward English, meandering, inconclusive.
4. what is this morality?
whatever   (07.12.10)
so what is jewish morality then? is it tikkun haolam, is it noah's laws? I'm sure the author has no clue either. If you go and ask eda hacharedit they will give u a very different account of what they consider "morally just". heck some of those lunatic find it kosher to participate in holocaust denial conferences. Obviously they are not representative for judaism and jewish moral. But I would argue that true jewish morality might be closer among the lines of "justice", "truth" and "compassion", unlike the author - who is probably american herself - suggests.
5. Left wing liberal American Jews
Norman ,   Great Neck, NY   (07.12.10)
The religion of American citizens who have Jewish roots but are left wing and liberal is LIBERALISM. They feels that they can express important opinions about Israel because of their Jewish roots....but they are the enemy. Their stupidity is not excusable.
6. In other words, don't provide ammunition
zooog ,   US   (07.12.10)
for the anti semmites.
7. loyal
mike ,   usa   (07.12.10)
how insulting this article is to american jews i cant imagine. but to tell a person that what they see they dont what they read they havent and what theyve heard isnt . now that is quit a magic trick,good luck with that.
8. Jewish nation
Roger ,   USA   (07.12.10)
I suppose it is going to break the Israeli people's heart when they find out US Jews consider themselves to be US citizens and not Israelis.
9. Because they care ??? ,...
split ,   usa   (07.12.10)
You can see better from the sidelines,... --------------------- perhaps they should ask themselves why they are criticizing
10. Should US Jews put Israel's goals ahead of US's?
Bloodyscot ,   Dallas, Texas   (07.12.10)
While supporting Israel is important but Americans should put the needs and goals of US first, to do otherwise is borderline treason. If America Muslims call for arming the Muslim allies of the US to be equal or stronger than Israel would that be right? A ME peace deal would be good for US and all its allies, since Israel and most of countries had made agreements, and only now that Israel has new PM and thousands of Russia Jewish settlers has Israel now change that view.
11. Reasoning with leftists in America won't work.
Daniel ,   Los Angeles, USA   (07.12.10)
Do not attempt to appease them for if you give an inch, they will take a mile.
12. Jews' abroad must talk with us, but do so directly with us,
Jehudah Ben-Israel ,   Qatzrin, Israel   (07.12.10)
preferably in our people's language of Hebrew, and without non-Jewish channels many, not all, of whom are eager to twist matters and use any critical view in the on-going attempt to demonize the nation-state of the Jewish people, to delegitimize it. Also, we, Israeli Jews, would be much more appreciative if you were critical based on in-depth knowledge of Jewish, Zionist and Israeli knowledge and based on some experience of living in Israel for a period of time. So, keep up your communication with us, directly with our elected officials, through direct communication to people in Israel and through the Israeli press. P.S. And when all is said, realize, we, Israeli Jews, will be the ones to pay the consequences of our conversation, not you, and we may end up doing so by having our sons and daughters sent in harm's way... and not return...!!!
13. Very Interesting
david ,   USA   (07.12.10)
To the writer of the article..............are you on drugs or are you just retarted??? Israel would not exist if it wouldnt have been for american people and their DOLLARS.
14. #13 David the fool
Thomas ,   USA   (07.12.10)
The American people didn't do squat about the creation of Israel - or "Ishrail" as you would say at home. You arrogant, ignorant Americans(?) better learn that it was STALIN (!) who ordered the Czech to provide the arms during the War of Independence in 1948. After that it was the FRENCH who supported Israel with both armaments and the nuke reactor during the 50-ties. You are an absolute retarded dolt on drug and your head is in deeply immersed into Obamao's derriere and living in sick delusion of grandeur.
15. My assessment
Jerrold Cohen ,   Seal Beach, USA   (07.12.10)
My assessment of Israel as an American Jew who has put Israel under a big magnifying glass for the past nine years. Israel is incredibly sadistic toward Palestinians. Horribly so. It is the most paranoid nation on earth, as far as I can see. It seems as if you need to manufacture enemies to stay alive. It is completely psychopathic. It has no regard for the lives of others. Mind you, this assessment after nine years of reading Ynet and several other Israeli online dailies every day, plus an equal number of Palestinian online newspapers. I must say that Ynet is among the best.
16. Our Land
Madai ,   USA   (07.12.10)
American-Jews: If you want to critisize Israel; Hush!. Don't do it. Do we follow the Torah or the Israeli politic? ... Of course, the Israeli politic. If Israel does something unfair, do we say: "no, this is wrong"? or "It's Ok, it's the Land of our Father"?. ... Of course, we say: It's Ok. Do Mitzvot come first, or our Israeli interest? ... Of course, our interest first. Only American-Jews should shut up? Of course not. Everyone else must shut up: Neturei Karta, Satmar, Anti-Zionist Haridim, ... , & the Shomronim (Bnei Yisrael). I'm American-Jew, but I'm one of many who share me this ideology. They went to Israel during the 70's & 80's & came back to the US to never go back to Israel. Now they believe that only Ha.Moshiach ben David is the one who should lead us there.
17. Israel has to act on its values
Ilan ,   Ariel   (07.12.10)
US Jewry is a community that rarely is called to act on its values. The complex issues of security and equality within the society are for them largely abstract issues. At most it will affect their rate of taxation a couple of percentage points. Jews in Israel are not pretenders,our fate and that of our children is tied to the decisions of our government. The solider who risks his life executing the policies or the person killed or wounded in a terrorist attack is often someone we know personally. It is a dramatic difference and something that Jews living comfortably in the diaspora tend to underestimate.
18. Criticism usually based on ignorance, like Jerrold Cohen
Brian Cohen ,   Judean Peoples Front   (07.12.10)
Listen to most of the Jews who are highly critical of Israel, and you'll find out that most of them have never been to Israel. Jerrold Cohen is probably a prime example. He and others like him sit in America and soak up Palestinian propaganda about the "brutal occupation" and how "resistance" is legitimate. Jerrold Cohen has never been to a settlement, never seen Jerusalem, and wouldn't know a Palestinian suicide bomber until the two of them were collecting their virgins in paradise. Jerrold Cohen and others give us their assessment based on 2nd hand innuendo. If they believe everything they read in the paper, then I guess Sadam Hussein did indeed have WMD and George Bush is a hero. Cohen probably believes there's a separate road system in the west bank for settlers (there isn't), there are buffer zones around all settlements (there aren't), and Israeli does indeed drop spiked bubble gum into the Gaza strip to raise the libidos of Pal children. Show one of these Israel bashers a truly brutal picture of Palestinians killing their own, or of a suicide bombing scene, and these left wing morons will say that it's "Israel's fault" cuz the "occupation" made them do it. What utter depraved cow poopie! Palestinians are among the worst human rights offenders on the planet, yet Jerrold Cohen and his fellow anti-Israel Jews knowingly choose to ignore all the factual evidence. They prefer simple things (which is what their minds can handle) like "end the occupation". They don't really know what that means, or how it's done, but it sounds good on camera and at cocktail parties. Have another drink on us, will ya Jerrold Cohen? Keep drinking yourself into your makebelieve world.
19. To 14 and 15
Rachel Avraham ,   Be'ersheva, Israel   (07.12.10)
To 14: David the fool does not represent all American Jews. For your information, the US was the first country in the world to recognize Israel's independence and influenced many other country's to support Israel's independence in 1948. While it is true that the US government did not supply Israel with weapons and other support until after 1967, it is also true that many individual Americans did help out Israel in such matters. My grandmother, for instance, volunteered with fundraising for the Haganah amongst the Jewish community in the US around the War of Independence and she was just as American as she was Jewish. Thus, it is inaccurate to state that the "American people didn't do squat about the creation of Israel." To number 15: Your assessment is not an accurate one. I have been following events in Israel since I was 13 and I am now 24. If one combines all of my time in Israel, I have spent about two and a half years in Israel. I have also visited the West Bank: I was in Hebron, Qulquliya, and Ariel. Not to mention that I have studied under pro-Israel and anti-Israel professors during both my first degree in the US and my second degree here in Israel. And believe me, if any one has a sadistic attitude, it is the Palestinians: they have a very sadistic attitude towards Jewish people. Also, I don't think that Israelis are against these American Jews speaking out against Israel because they are American. If these same American Jews made Aliyah, like I did, then I am sure that native-born Israelis would be more open to hearing their opinions.
20. First deal your own country
ex-syrian Jew   (07.12.10)
How many innocent Afghans were killed this month by American troops? How many American troops are occupying Iraq? Why don't you compensate the native Americans? Why don't you compensate the Mexicans for stealing California in 1848? When you have cleaned up your own house you can turn to Israel.
21. A balanced article and important subject
Robert Haymond ,   Israel/Canada   (07.12.10)
which, nonetheless, requires further exploration. I think one of the most damaging aspects of criticism of Israel comes from Jews themselves. Mentioned in the article was Noam Chomsky. People will read his works demonizing Israel (and the USA) and assume that because he was an MIT professor and notable in the field of linguistics and because he is a Jew who was brought up in a Jewish household knowledgeable about Jewish ritual that he must have "inside knowledge". The globe is full of such Jews. They wreck their criticisms upon Israel and, incidentally, upon the Jewish people themselves, in such a devastating manner meant, it seems, to destroy the very foundations of the Zionist state. The criticism is so harsh, so unrelenting and so meanspirited that one cannot help but make the connection that the very people who are rendering it are attempting, in a psychological manner, to obliterate and erase their own Jewish connections, the "stain" of being Jewish. An example other than Noam Chomsky is a man, Jerrold Cohen, who appears occasionally on this website and on Maan. He has a website. He has self-published a book on "Israeli terrorism". He posted that he was brought up as a Jew but relinquished this connection when he began to recognize the injustices of Israel. There are Jerrold Cohens who exist in the USA and Canada, who benefit from the freedoms found there to say as they please with no recriminations, who deceive themselves that only if they despise Israel (read: Jews) sufficiently and powerfully enough then the Gentile world surrounding them will be accepting and that their "dirty" Jewishness will be washed "clean". We remain affected by Hitler and European antisemitism; we remain affected by numerous centuries of being despised by others due to our very existences as Jews. And Reader, the problem does not only apply to Canada and the USA. Take a look at some of the Israeli examples of notables whose very purpose appears to be the demonization of our country: Uri Avnery; Gideon Levy; Amira Haas. Their characterizations of Jewish life are so painstakingly and consistently negative that one must conclude that that they hate themselves, the "stain" of their Jewishness, so much, that they have put their talents and commitments into exorcising the "Jew within" by punishing the "Jew without". The damages they do to Israel and to Jews in general are unmistakably huge. the whole nature of what we characterize as the "self-hating Jew" needs to be reviewed in modern times. Heinrich Heine, the great German poet who converted from Judaism in his adult years said on his deathbed (to paraphrase): "I was never anything but a poor pitiful Jew no matter how I thought I had changed and became one of them."
22. #21 Robert Haymond and #19
Thomas ,   Dixieland USA   (07.12.10)
Your post is laudable in every respect for its factuality and astute diction. Given your pro-Israel stand Ynet is not supposed to publish it but to discard missives bearing the same tone: the favorites are the Jew haters, Jews and non-Jews alike. Unfortunately articles dealing with the KAPOS and self-haters like K. Marx, Chomsky, G. Levy etc. are rare to non existent and the Jewish press refuses to assign human face to these evil characters. Except for the "masada2000.org" S.H.I.T. list where we can meet the devil by their true name. 19. Your temperate answer to my assumption does negate the fact that for the most part, Americans - including Jewish Americans - were indifferent to the plights of the reborn Israel and a few individual's helping hand will not change that. On the grand scale, compared to the Soviets, Czech, French - Americans did not do squat.
23. Eretz Yisrael
Shimon ,   Poleg   (07.12.10)
The land of Israel belongs to the citizens of Israel. We pay the taxes, serve in the Army and we are Israel. American Jews do not live here, they do not work here, they have their own country to criticise. If they choose to make Aliyah and become citizens then they can open their mouths. BTW we don't need or want their money if it comes with conditions! they cannot buy the right to insult Israel.
24. American Jews
Yoel ,   Ossining,NY   (07.12.10)
#8Roger...The Jewish Nation pre-dates the State of Israel. While our political Citizenship is American, we still belong to the Jewish Nation.
25. Jewish Criticism of Israel
Syd Chaden ,   Palermo CA USA   (07.12.10)
Israel stands alone, surrounded by a Muslim World that would destroy it. While criticizing its errors or shortcomings may be helpful, to some extent, standing with Israel against its enemies will contribute to its very survival. This should be an easy choice for a Jew to make.
26. Thanks for your reference, Thomas, for
Robert Haymond ,   Israel/Canada   (07.12.10)
masada2000.org. I didn't know it existed until you referenced it. It appears to be an interesting site and I will study it in more detail in the future. I try to obtain a balanced approach. I also read Maan News as well as Haaretz and JPost on occasion. I am planning to complete the rest of Benny Morris' book on the Palestinian refugee problem (revisited). Morris was one of the New Historians who began to research the underside of Israeli history and, it seems, taught a whole generation of historians. His perspective has changed over a period of time , however. At any rate, criticizing Israel is not the same as demonizing it. I try to be careful about my own criticisms depending on the audience as the hatred towards Israel in the international community is so strong that anything we say or write is taken and run with as evidence of our "tawdry and immoral ways". As to self-hating Jewry, it's fits with a pattern. In Canada, for instance, the term "apples" are used for Native Indians who have turned against their own kind, red on the outside and white on the inside. And, of course, pejorative terms used to be used about Blacks (such as "White Nigger") in the USA. If you don't fit in, if you are different in some essential way, then all the more pressure is internally exerted to become like the "other" and demonize one's own kind. The solution or remedy, if you like, is to learn about one's culture and become an active participant in it. This is how the Native Indian elders have taught their own young and it appears to be effective. With regard to diapora Jews, as one Ynet poster so effectively put it, we are required to bring up Jews with a good Jewish education. All too often, however, this is not the case in the USA and Canada. The Jewish population is dwindling through intermarriage and integration into the larger community of Americans and Canadians. When I posted about self-hatred, I was attempting to comprehend the internal psychological processes which lead to this characteristic, how it plays out in the real world and why. I am continuing to study the phenomenon.
27. Mr Meltzer believes US Jews can't assertain the truth
John R ,   NYC USA   (07.12.10)
Mr. Meltzer is very wrong if he believes American Jews read only anti-Israeli propaganda. Overwhelmingly the US press is far more pro-Israeli than the reverse which explains Israel's current favorable ratings. The bulk of the so called "authorities" that write articles are normally members of pro-Israel think tanks. What American Jews need is the balance which Meltzer characterizes as biased propaganda. We are smart enough to ascertain the truth.
28. Jewish criticsm of Israel
Ezra ,   Florida   (07.13.10)
For the most part American jews really love Israel. But many of them do not hesitate for a moment to jump on the band wagon of criticsm citing what they call "fairness". Many of them, I am sorry to say are antisemite jews who reluctantly admit to being jews. When they are asked for their opinion about what some other country's wrong actions, such as the constant threats of Iran and company, they shrug their shoulders and often try to change the subject. These Shmuks and many like them elected the Mashiah Obamaa to the white house and they usually swear by him.They refuse to understand that they will be among the first to go on"judgment day" together with the "Good" jews who understand that Israel is not flawless by any means, but support Israel come hell and high water.
29. American Jews:Democrats first
David ,   NJUSA   (07.13.10)
Jews second, fat and stupid, capable only of shallow support for and no understanding of Israel and Jewish history brought to you courtesy of Reform Judaism and secularism
30. jewish criticism of israel
karen ,   nyc, usa   (07.13.10)
As an American Jew I feel I am not in a position to criticize the government of Israel's security decsions. But you can't keep giving in to those ultra orthodox Jews. They are scary people. For people who are religous they spend alot of time throwing rocks and rioting.
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