with all the talmud brain training, which haredi gets, tell me please how many nobel prices (science), this people get, answer only one versus 170 for the secular jews

Thankyou for clearly stating what the majoirty of hard working, decent, law obiding citizens of this country think !

ynet usually ban my TBs, and no I am not Racist. I can have fair discution without name calling onlly Ynet don't like me much, I got no idea y, I always mind my language.

that the IRS inspectors r ultra jewish orthodox, Nobody like the IRS, taxes r sensitive thing, and you wonder y people don't like jewish ultra orthodox. just wonder what jews in NYC r doing to improve their image.

"Taub Center showed... the rate of haredi men in the 35-54 age range who are not working grew threefold within three decades, to 65%" (ynet, Helping haredim find work 2010.05.09) Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer (Teimani, Baladi, Dor Daim, Orthodox Jew) Advocate for Logic as Hermeneutic Halakhic Authority Welcoming All Torah-reverers (Jews & non-Jew geirim)

a good measuring stick-just look at a great achiever Arafat(may he burn in hell) and a new arrival who has done so much already for humanity: obama. hmmm-nobel prize is nothing to be striving for-even if a great religious jew did get it few years ago

Make the seculars appreciate that the haredi are learning basic skills and have degrees? To make us appreciate them for doing that? Getting an education and a job is a basic function of life. Get over yourself.

They don't wear the army uniform, they steal from the State, hell!! even today there's articles about Haredim taking money under false pretenses and telling us how we should behave on vacation. They do NOT contribute squat to this country and are therefore not entitled to utter a single word to those who have to work to support them. Haredi education is not the issue, no-one gives a flying fart if they educate themselves or not. Domestic staff and supermarket shelf stackers are not university educated, they still get up and do their mundane jobs everyday, and contribute to their country. The slimy Haredim are taking millions from the government to teach the national curriculum to pupils - but they didn't. Where has all that money gone? They should be FORCED to pay it back. I couldn't care less if they can add 1+1 - I care more that their savage-like behavior is treated with an extremely harsh zero-tolerance response from our testicle-less government Losers.

between the ultra orthodox and the secular community. It will happen and the various Governments are not free of blame for this. It will happen because there is no other solution to the problem. The orthodox are "God" driven and this is powerful weaponry, they will not back down. The seculars are "freedom" driven and this is also powerful weaponry. The sooner this happens the better for our future.

Perhaps In the Olam Haba the securals will sit in the presence of the Shechina and enjoy the fruits of their labours while the "pious Charedim" will be the labour force forced to serve to make up for their lack of work in the old world.

Isn't this why the Macabeim fought against? Does anyone think that study of how we come from apes is of value to real Jews who believe in G-d? They are portrayed as primitive who know squat about the great "progressive' world of today but the primitivism is not on the haredy side it's on the secular who understand squat.

Since you think it's no big issue, I'm glad you're going to pay for the cleanups and replacement of property destroyed in all the riots by your fellow haredim. Mighty nice of you! Cuz, you see, I'm sick and tired of my tax money going to waste to clean up after these vermin who I'm paying to study Torah, not torch public property, attack cops and passersby, and generally show us all the things we teach our kids NOT TO DO! Make your first check out to Iryat Yerushalayim - I think I remember seeing the 800,000 shekel figure for the damage so far this financial year (or make it out for more if you want to date it back to last Rosh Hashana).

Gee is that part of their education which they are so keen to promote, i wonder what was the reason, did she look at a man while crossing the street or was her hem line above the ankle ?

'This is a community that knows how to fully stand for the principles it believes in.' should read: knows how to fully stand *up* for ...'.

To reply to your questions why don't etc: who really cares? The haredim don't care what the seculars think and the seculars don't want to hear what the haredim have to say. Proof of this is the scarcity of space permitted for haredi replies, and the deafening silence that greets those few that slip through the net. Next point: did you receive a full secular education? Your written English is far below par......

As usual, one of the few educated, rational talkbacks. What a breath of fresh air! I shall attempt to answer more briefly than you ask: We differ in some fundamental points: one is what we consider 'the greater good'. We have ours and you have yours. They will never meet. You suggest grandiose plans of reports and Kenesset Committees etc, but we all know what a waste of time and money those are - anywhere in the world, and more particularly in the, let us call it euphemistically, Middle Eastern environment in which the State finds itself. A second fundamental point that you don't seem to realise is that we actually wish to preserve our 'ghettoised existence', as you call it. We like it. People are joining it every year. As a psychologist you may have a rationalisation for this, but I suggest that, having tasted secular life and society, they make an informed choice. True, some people leave it as well. That's their choice. But again, as a psychologist, you may wish to get to know them and study their new lifestyles. Very few simply forget and walk away, like those who join the haredim do. You may argue that this is the 'Jesuit syndrome'. Maybe. But perhaps it is because they know what they have left behind and what they have now. To me they appear deeply unhappy people. I promised to be brief. These are just a few thoughts to explore. I hope they are allowed online.

The same scientists deal with genetics, and medicine, and also you profit from it. If you find the answer to questions like how to treat terrible deseases, how to protect our world from being poisened etc by studying the bible, then great. If others find the answers through "hellenistic studies" - why not? After all, you use medicine, modern technology and hygienic facilities!

not here in Israel . Abroad they are NOT paid to sit in a yeshiva , they have to work , and they do it . When i lived abroad , i also knew many charidim who were working , had a business , and made money . Why can't they ALL work here ?

...who say the Hareidim will drive Israel into bankruptcy within a generation are simply wrong?

When it devolves to two basic concepts: 1) Not respecting anyone's lifestyle except your own. 2) Degrees or not, demanding massive support from the rest of Israelis to have far too many children for the salaries you do earn. Sorry, but your screed is a tangential argument in the debate about a small percentage of the population having too much power both in the Knesset and in sucking down tax moneys (the later because of the former). Sorry, I've met a few Haredi I do respect, but as a class you demand much more than you give.

Haredim may be a power house in New York (and while there are some rich, most of them are dirt poor) but in Israel they are a burden and leeches. They dodge he army and live off the secular majorty i. I am for not giving hem a penny of public money ever.

I take the point that within the Charedi spectrum there are many shades of black, including ones that are reasonably well educated and hold well paying jobs. However, this does not change the statistics that the majority of this "rainbow" despise secular education and values. I also find it amusing that "none of these people needed seven years of schooling." Even among my well educated Charedi friends I frequently encounter the attitude that one can close the huge gap in secular learning (which carries not just mere information but also a broad outlook and problem solving and analytical skills) by simply taking an intensive course or compressing Bagrut preparation into a few months of self-study. True, there are select individuals that can accomplish this, but to forgo a well rounded secular education as a basis of personal and intellectual development is to deprive your children of opportunities and choices on their transition into adulthood.

I am more than willing to be corrected. What percentage, in fact, of the total population of Haredi children do learn from the core curriculum?